*** jv chap.
5 pp.
43-44 proclaiming the lords return (1870-1914) ***the twig, though, had been trained by god-fearing parents; it was inclined "in the direction of the lord.
Thanks Blondie,
I was one of the posters who said that because I was quoting my wife when she said that 7th day adventist influence the WT. I knew it wasn't exactly the 7th day adventist but I knew it was the adventist in some form so I let it slide.
6:9; isaiah 9:6.. comments.
what is one way that divine education helps us prepare for the future?.
divine education.
blondie:
Excellent post. I had to endure this study yesterday as I agreed to go with my wife to the KH so that we would all be together as my daughter wanted. Prior to leaving for the hall, my wife asked my daughter, "What did you learn in church today?" When my daughter did not answer, I guess my wife was trying to prove a point, go to church and learn nothing. Please, my daughter is 3 years old, what exactly is she suppose to learn sitting in a sermon for an hour? What exactly does she learn in the KH? From what she has told me, she learns that if she misbehaves too much, she goes to The Spanking Room TM . Yesterday, she slept for the majority of the two hours we sat in the talk and WT study. What exactly did she learn there?
I wanted to comment at the beginning of the study but I knew it would not be well received. I made this comment on another thread. Why does the WTS make a college education seem like such a bad thing? I get the whole concept on how for some people, being a missionary (or a pioneer in this case) may indeed be a much more rewarding prospect, but I thought the body of Christ has many parts. If this man was indeed that bright and talented, who knows, under the right circumstances he could become an excellent doctor who specializes in bloodless therapies and surgeries. What an asset this man would be to Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere. Why is it that the witnesses look so down on so called worldly things while at the same time partaking in them as it benefits them? If the government is truly a tool of Satan and as such one cannot vote or serve on the jury, why also do witnesses partake in government benefits? My wife's family is has individuals participating in various government benefits such as disability (mom, an aunt, and an uncle), unemployment (dad), and some form of welfare (another aunt). So much for neutrality.
After the meeting was classic. My wife, feeling elated, told me that she had a good time at the meeting. We went to a convenience store and she only had cash to buy herself a hot chocolate. I myself only had enough money to last to payday so I decide not to get anything. My daughter asks for something for herself too, my wife says, "Well daddy isn't coming up off any money." I say, "I gave you my entire check save for a little money for gas and few other things, I want what little I have to last until payday." Wife responds, "Well, you know according to the study today we shouldn't be too concerned about money because it will be worthless one day." I said, "You're right so let's stop stressing over this." I think that response was a bit unexpected for her for she paused and then said in a low voice, "Well, you should not horde it either." I said, "If I am hording it, I would have a lot more money than what I have now."
I can clearly see now that the Jehovah's Witnesses are not balanced. The church I was attending also showed what some would call 'propaganda' concerning giving of tithes. However, I knew, as did the pastor, that people are not about to empty their pockets of all their cash during a recession. Most of his sermon's were pretty balanced.
My wife, on balance, is balanced but I guess when she gets around the hall, it gets to her. It was recently announced that she just became an unbaptized publisher to the congregation. A MS was taking her address and phone number yesterday and she was apologizing for turning in her time late. So it begins...
yesterday, my wife and i was going for a walk in the neighborhood.
she was carrying my niece and commenting on how heavy she is.
i told her that apparently her sister has to carry her child, diaper bag, and her things to the bus stop every morning.
blondie:
Where is your WT comments post for this past Sunday? Are you doing well?
Nevermind, found it.
yesterday, my wife and i was going for a walk in the neighborhood.
she was carrying my niece and commenting on how heavy she is.
i told her that apparently her sister has to carry her child, diaper bag, and her things to the bus stop every morning.
bennyk:
Excellent post, I loved that quote from the old Zion's Watch Tower and goes to show just how different the witnesses are today from how they were back then. Granted, the Bible Students under Russell believed in some pretty bizzare things, still the fact that Russell taught things like this and how he also taught that an organization is not a good thing is spot on in my opinion. It is a shame though that the JW religion is looking to put people in a box now. I know this from personal experience because my wife was asking me in front of the elder, "So what religion exactly are you? Baptist?" I told her, like I tell others, "I am a Christian first and I believe the Bible first." For the benefit of those who must put my faith in a box then one can say that I tend to favor Protestant teachings in general with an emphasis on Baptists. But I've been to pentacostal churches also and feel that they are just as valid. The only issues I took with some forms of pentacostals are the out of order tongue speaking and prophesing that they like to do, as well as the whole being 'slain in the spirit' thing. The church I have been attending regularly is based on southern baptist with a mixture of some of the pentacostal teachings. It actually has 7 different churches meeting on the campus.
dgp:
I think at first, I did the whole information overload on her. Obviously a bad move. But I explained to her just as I did the elder, "First you say your religion is the only true religion. Then I see things that don't quite jive with the Bible. Can you not see my dilemma? Perhaps you can help explain some of these things to me." They seem cordial about, well the elder does. But I get the feeling that I may already be marked. Good thing I did not join the religion before discovering all of this.
yesterday, my wife and i was going for a walk in the neighborhood.
she was carrying my niece and commenting on how heavy she is.
i told her that apparently her sister has to carry her child, diaper bag, and her things to the bus stop every morning.
Yesterday, my wife and I was going for a walk in the neighborhood. She was carrying my niece and commenting on how heavy she is. I told her that apparently her sister has to carry her child, diaper bag, and her things to the bus stop every morning. My wife was like, yeah, I can see how she lost a lot of weight. Then I said, "Well at church, I have to carry our daughter, my bible, and whatever bagles and drink we pick up into the sanctuary." She was surprised and asked me if they really allowed us to take food in the sanctuary. I told her yes, and described the sanctuary as being like a big room with chairs instead of pews. I even told her how we do not take up a collection for the offering. "So how do they get collect their offerings?" she asked. There are two boxes standing in front of the stage and two more outside in the common area. People place money there if they wish to give.
She then asked me (of all people) this question.
"I understand the Jehovah's Witnesses originally got their start from the Seventh Day Adventist, but when did they know that they were the only true religion?"
I figured I'd be kind this time and just give her a only a piece of WT history. My response, "According to WT history in 1914, coinciding with World War I, Jesus began his rule in heaven. He surveyed all of the world's religions and around 1918 or 1919, He chose the WTS as His faithful and discreet slave."
She asked me if I knew what the source of that is and I said that it was probably in some WT publication and that I would find out.
She then asked, "But how did they know that Jesus selected them?" To that I could offer no answer. I just simply said, "You're asking the wrong guy. Did God transmit this special message to someone who heard it? What do you think?"
She then said, "Well, I'm sure I will hear the answer at the meeting today."
She later asked me to go with her and I went this time. Sure enough, during the talk, the year 1919 was brought up. I immediately looked at her and said, "See there, the pivotal year."
Of course, I spared her the details of 1914 (though we talked about it before). I don't think she's ready for that again. But I would be interested in knowing exactly what WT publication did the whole concept of 1914 and 1919 first get preached. Anyone?
an open question to everyone regarding a situation occuring in my life.
as you know, my wife and sister-in-law are jw born ins.
my wife is trying to return but her sister is currently inactive.
Hey Everyone,
Thanks for the responses. My sister-in-law is unbaptized and I learned last night that she is (or was) an unbaptized publisher. Of course, I doubt this is true now but then again I don't know. When my wife and I started dating, her mom went and reported her to the elders. She had to face two elders (a judiciary committee perhaps) and was later announced to the congregation that she was no longer an unbaptized publisher. Apparently, none of this happened to my sister-in-law. Perhaps her mom learned her lesson from her experience with my old (the older sister). Perhaps, sister just simply left town and disassociated herself before the fireworks had a chance to start.
It is indeed a family matter and I too don't have the full story. I do know that sometime after my wife and I left town together, her sister went into depression and started acting out in ways that gave her parents fits. Perhaps they have had enough with her and are simply 'helping from a distance.' Her moving out of our small home town and moving to where we now live did give her some reason to feel good about herself so I guess that alone is helpful. A few years ago, when she first moved out here, things weren't going well for her financially. Her parents offered to let her move back in, she finally did but she hated it. The small town has little to offer and I think she was beginning to sink back into her depression (I can certainly relate to that). She wrote me a letter sometime later practically begging me to let her move back in.
The purpose of this thread wasn't to single them out and judge them but to simply see if perhaps some of their actions may have had anything to do with their religious affiliation. I understand all religious people have a tendency to view things from a 'holier than thou' prism but it seems to me that this is especially true from the witnesses. Judging from all the threads I see concerning how witnesses treat each other and how they view outsiders, I was just checking to see how much of this is the 'religion' talking.
I am fully aware of the fact that no matter how helpful or nice I seem to these people, I will always be judged by them as a little lower than they are since I am 'worldly.' It use to bother me as I had always tried to gain their respect. Now I view it as solely a Jehovah's Witness thing that was first started by Rutherford. I have to admit, coming to this site certainly helps me see through their facades and propoganda. Whenever I am at the KH with my wife now, I never view these people the same way. I'm always thinking about the WT comments videos when I see people raising their hands to answer questions in the WT. I look at how some people seem to view others judgementally. I notice when some sisters try to 'explain' their prolonged absences. I even noticed a MS bobbing his head at a Thursday night meeting when a CO was giving the talk. Classic.
Back to my sister-in-law, I should point out that the baby's dad's mom is also being very helpful and supportive. They too (baby's dad and his family) are worldly.
so far quite dissappointed from what i've seen.
this is very very important, first i"ll address the non/ex jw then i'll address the jw's (jw's scroll down if don't wanna see the first part).
i see so many who have concluded that it was not 'god inspired', a lot of what is being done, and their conscience told them that many things conflicted with jesus teachings and the bible.
I think I see what he is saying but I am too tired to comment. Marking for later.
an open question to everyone regarding a situation occuring in my life.
as you know, my wife and sister-in-law are jw born ins.
my wife is trying to return but her sister is currently inactive.
An open question to everyone regarding a situation occuring in my life. As you know, my wife and sister-in-law are JW born ins. My wife is trying to return but her sister is currently inactive. She is living with us until she can get help with her housing (section 8) and she has a small child born out of wedlock.
My wife and I was talking with her today about some of the issues she is facing. She is not sure if she wants to keep the baby or send her to live with her dad in New York. Her parents are against her sending the baby away but when asked for help they go silent and offer none. They offer lots of 'advice' according to my sis-in-law. Advice such as, "Well if you hadn't made the mistakes you made and had that baby out of wedlock, you would not be dealing with these issues." While this may be true, this clearly does not help the situation. Her parents are out of work, so I can imagine that it would be hard for them to drive for four hours to see her and help out. But, they still manage to make it to the assemblies in Richmond, VA (which is only an hour away from us). Seems like if they can drive that far, they can drive to see my sister-in-law but I digress as they may have good reasons for not coming to help, I don't know.
My sister-in-law is very frustrated with her parents who are devout JW (Father's an MS, Mom's a full time pioneer). My wife and I help out as much as we can. We're even offering to take the baby with us as we travel back to our hometown for the Thanksgiving weekend. Again, this is due to her not being able to find a baby-sitter for the holiday weekend (day care being closed) while she works (the restaurant she works at is open on Thanksgiving). Her thing, however, is that she asked her parents for help with baby-sitting and again they went silent. The father and grandmother on the father's side is literally bending over backwards and providing her with lots of support. Of course, they are 'worldly' so to a JW, they should not be helping out so much.
As an observer, it seems to me that this devout JW family is very quick to judge her and very slow to provide help and support. I compare their actions to the actions of my own parents and I have found my parents to very very quickly come to the aid of one of their children. I remember back when my sister first move to this area, they needed lots of help and my parents were there. I remember the amount of support I got during the early years of my marraige and the support I got during my college years. My parents, however, are 'worldly' and haven't been to a church regularly in over 20 years. Yet, they seem to show more Christian characteristics that these seemingly self righteous JW's who told my wife she was 'lowering her standards' back when she first started dating me. In fact, I recall on two seperate occasions, my parents actually allowed people who they barely knew to live in their home rent free because they had no place to live (one was a friend of my brother's, the other was a working for my step-dad). This certainly resonates with Matthew 25:38-40 .
So what then about the JW parents of my wife and sister? How come I see so little coming in the way of help from them? I remember one week they were coming up to visit for the week and my mom needed a way up because she wanted to see my daughter. I asked both my mom and my father-in-law if it was okay that my mom rode up with them and I would take her back home myself. His response, "Well I need some gas money?" Um, weren't they coming our way with or without my mom? However, to not make a scene, I offered to pay him the gas money myself. My wife was upset and dismayed over this and over them insisting that they could not stay the whole week to watch our daughter as they originally promised because they had a KH wedding that they needed to attend. (Here's hoping that this only adds to her cognitive dissonance.)
So what kinds of experiences have you all had? Have any of your JW family been very very helpful to you in your times of need or do they seem to 'go silent' and avoid helping you out like the parents of my sister in law seem to do? If they do or do not help you, do they seem to pass judgement on your predicament?
if you ever been to radio shack, you would notice how relatively small the store is.
yet according to advertisements and sales associate suggestions, they have in the store everything that you will need which is electronic related.
they have all the answers for your technological wants simply put, or is this really the case.
I'm a graduate in Electronics Engineering so I spent a lot of time in a Radio Shack over the years. The best way for me to get the sales guys off my back was to ask them something that is technical and way over their heads. Like um, do you sell resistor packs, what types of op amps do you actually stock, do you have the parts for this schematic (and show them the schematic)? Most of their sales guys don't even have a clue.
Unfortunately, the Radio Shack has come a long way from the 'hobbyist' store of the 1970's and 1980's. I was just inside one last night and saw that they relegated their components and breadboard stuff to a small corner and they no longer sell discreet IC's. So sad, but I guess it is a sign of the times.
I guess to compare their customer support to the WT, I would have to guess that if you stray from their 'script' they find themselves clueless. Of course, this is true with Dell's technical support group also.
i can scarcley believe my eyes.
i read in another thread about c. t. russells attitude that his 'studies in the scriptures' is better than the bible and come to the conclusion they are not god abandoned today, god was never there.. fast forward to modern times and they are still at it, likening their body of teachings as being part of the bible.. most of you already know the pasages in their own lit that i refer to, i'm just stating my feelings as i dismantle a 38 year old belief system.. it seems to me, that all along, the belief of the watchtower society is this: our writings are true, they are backed up by the bible.
rather than, the bible is true, backed up by our writings.. disapointed.
| the elders and the KH can sure rally around a sister who is wanting to get rid of an apostate husband. |
And that is exactly (or at least a large part of the reason) why I will not become a Jehovah's Witness. I realized that first of all, I would be sacrificing my personal ideals and giving up a part of me. Then when I later learned the truth about the 'truth' I would have to face something crazy like this.
I'm sorry for every 'apostate' who had to endure this. May God Bless us all.
