Elder: Are you pregnant (or Is she pregnant?)
person: no
Elder: How do you know?
person: we used a condom
Elder: Oh, so you planned to do this. It wasn't that you were just overcome.
These types of questions are supposed to pry into motive
xelder
JoinedPosts by xelder
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Question for elder/ex-elders
by TweetieBird inwhy do elders, in judicial committee meetings when dealing with immorality, have to ask so many personal questions, i.e.
how many times, was oral sex involved, anal sex, how many times, etc.
is it really necessary or are the elders just getting off asking about someone else's sex life?
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Mitochondrial DNA
by xelder inrecent research involving mitochondrial dna traces human genetics through the mother.
human migration can be traced and time periods estimated.
a human family tree is developed.
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xelder
Recent Research involving Mitochondrial DNA traces human genetics through the mother. Human migration can be traced and time periods estimated. A human family tree is developed. Genetic Eve is thought to have been in Africa about 40,000 years ago.
This runs against a literal reading of the Genesis creation account. But I think it can still be merged. Nils Jensma has some great stuff on this.
Maybe God created things by using evolution as well as points of miraculous creation. I think man got to a point where God gave him spirituality and then, therefore, moral responsibility.
Any comments? Thanks
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xelder
what is the spirit? what is inspiration? what is spirituality? I'm sure many Athiests consider themselves spiritual people.
This seems to be a topic about an intangible quality.
On being a spiritual person, the Watchtower offers good advise at first - Read the Bible. But then it continues with works, meetings, service, etc. To a JW, spirituality is doing JW stuff. (w93 9/1 p11 as an example)
Scientists, Artists and Musicians feel inspiration and a feeling of exhileration and a grasp for something greater. Nature makes us feel that way. These things make me want to search for higher meaning. It instills morality and conscience. For now, we live in physical bodies, 'God set limits of the dwelling of men'. Can mankind learn to be spiritual despite physical limits? If they can, the spiritual rewards will be astounding. This is a group project covering ages, as well as a personal search.
Acts 17:26:
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According to the reasoning book: SPIRIT
Definition:
I believe that all people have spirituality that they can listen to. Rom 1:20
For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened
Rom 2:14
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Spirituality is not just for the religious. Everyone has a spiritual voice in their head. It is for all men and women to develop spirituality so that they can be lead to greater truth. More and more, science seems to clarify man's development, and I believe that science and spirituality will continue to help us learn how God really works with mankind.
I would appreciate other views on spirituality. Thanks for your kind patient responses
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Planned Giving Department
by xelder inits amazing how i was too blind to see through things for so long.
a friend of mine worked high up in accounting at bethel and said that the donation arrangement had really hurt cash flow.
in 1996, just a few years after the donation arrangement for literature started, and the generation change, the co discreetly asked a few of us to a meeting with the planned giving department brothers who were visiting in our area.
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xelder
Its amazing how I was too blind to see through things for so long. A friend of mine worked high up in accounting at Bethel and said that the donation arrangement had really hurt cash flow
In 1996, just a few years after the donation arrangement for literature started, and the generation change, the CO discreetly asked a few of us to a meeting with the Planned Giving department brothers who were visiting in our area. Just a few convention 'heavy' elders were asked (all hush hush) to attend.
The meeting was with about 10-12 of us and it was about how to direct brothers and sisters to the planned giving department if they desired to donate to the society. Now as has been pointed out on this forum, the magazines print a yearly article with much of this information. It covers how to donate stock, property, etc. The brothers said at this meeting that sometimes we may hear of someone wanting to make estate plans involving the society, and we need to be ready to direct them to the planned giving department. Bethel would be happy to send a representative to our area to help such a person draw up their estate plans to care for their needs, their children, and so on, if they were also including the WBTS.
I asked one brother about the fact that many JW's don't believe in IRA's and so on. Many feel that even having one shows a lack of faith. How do we respond to such ones? He said that while that is true that some feel that way, the JW's who would have assets tend not to have that belief as much as those who don't have substantial assets. He said that we should all "wear two hats". We live for Armageddon tomorrow, and we also make long range plans. We should be like the WBTS who keeps building since no one knows how long until the end.
This answer quite surprised me at the time. To hear a bethel heavy brother talk about the "two hats", and making ourselves available to friends with estates to plan for. They were careful to say that we were never to suggest such giving, but be ready to steer it there way if the people wished. They will even send an attorney out to help with the papers. They also said that the GB was uncomfortable with these brothers going around and having meetings like this because of how it appeared, bet they convinced the GB that a department to accept donations was commonplace among large organizations.
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Letter being read tonight?
by mjarka911 inso my active jw wife is feeling under the weather tonight and told me she won't be attending the meeting, but she was on the fence becase they announced an important letter was being read tonight.
anyone heard anything?
maybe it's just a local thing, but i like to try and see what's coming around the corner.. .
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xelder
Randall Waters was re-instated
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District Convention's - Control Freaks
by xelder insince for many years i served at many levels of convention administration for 5000-6000 attendance (small conventions), i think back and shake my head at the control freak policies.
do any of you remember?
when i used to attend 8 day conventions, (3 sessions a day 9:00-12:00 1:30-4:30 6:00-9:00) departments were huge to organize.
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xelder
Put Conventions on a DVD - I'll tell them I watched it
I'll even send 5 bucks so I don't have to go to the spiritual feast
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District Convention's - Control Freaks
by xelder insince for many years i served at many levels of convention administration for 5000-6000 attendance (small conventions), i think back and shake my head at the control freak policies.
do any of you remember?
when i used to attend 8 day conventions, (3 sessions a day 9:00-12:00 1:30-4:30 6:00-9:00) departments were huge to organize.
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xelder
Since for many years I served at many levels of Convention Administration for 5000-6000 attendance (small conventions), I think back and shake my head at the control freak policies. Do any of you remember? When I used to attend 8 day conventions, (3 sessions a day 9:00-12:00 1:30-4:30 6:00-9:00) departments were huge to organize. So following is the SIMPLIFIED version after conventions were reduced to finally 3 days
Food service - Remember islandizing? You had to stack everything on the serving counter EXACTLY like the diagram. And the bethel representative's were there to check you out. If your 15 year old wanted to help - NO WAY - 16 and up only!!
Rooming - Years ago, we actually used to go door to door and ask for rooms from the public. We would offer 2.00 a day. We used hotels mostly so they finally gave that up. Nowadays, -What a joke. The approved list, was 2 nice hotels and then a declining list of flea and roach traps. If your service meeting schedule is early in the week in January, you "supposedly" get to call first to book a room. - Ha ha ha - all gone JW's don't follow the rules, Hotels don't follow the arrangements, rooming overseers agree to supervise this circus because it gets them on THE CONVENTION COMMITTEE - and a platform part guaranteed. Motels comp about 1 room in 10 for groups, (the bus driver gets a free room) The society gets comp rooms too and make them available to CO, DO, Bethel heavies, and occasionally to a rank-n-file (FOR A "DONATION" - don't dare forget to donate- they will call you in to remind you- seriously) The worst part was JW's with special handicaps that needed special rooms and were willing to pay for them. They have to go through the rooming department brothers to make the special arrangements. Can you imagine year after year trusting some brother who doesn't know your condition to book the right room? People were much better at making there own arrangements.
Accounting - last time I ran this department it took 280 volunteers. This is to ensure ample personally supervised collection boxes, security, counters, the bookkeeper, etc. Why don't they just send a letter with a suggested per publisher $$ to each congregation 1-2 months before the convention (like they do for CO cars and insurance) At a circuit assembly, administration knows all income, expense, and donations. Not so at the big DC. The accounting department collects money, counts it ,drops it in WBTS bank account, done - no checks to write, no reports. Only Brooklyn knows the operation gain after expenses. Direct negotiations for all conventions in that city for the summer go through one brother. Many times a city donates the facility for free to attract all these out-of-towners. Rock bands use the facility, the crowd trashes it, and the band takes the ticket sale revenue from the local citizens and leaves town. JW's come from out of town and spend money in the city, so the city likes that of-course.
Attendants - Recruit 250 - 300 appointed brothers. Control thousands at the opening stampede. People line up hours before to run to the best seats. Caring for the elderly and handicapped was a huge (and important)issue. Policing the hallways for worldly stalkers hitting on young sisters. Helping control the rush for new releases after sessions were over. Big JOB
Convention field service. Let's go out in a strange town in 105 degree heat, with our little kids, get lost, knock on doors to inform householders how grand it is for them that we are having a convention in their town. Who's great idea was this?
Administration Committee members can ask for some re-imbursement from the society for postage-phone-etc. Most don't. However, the Bethel Convention department told us once that they received requests for phone reimbursements from one committee when 'they all lived within 45 minutes of each other and could have just had another meeting'. That's when I really understood how out of touch these people are. Elders need more meetings. Put down the phone, tell the family good-bye again, drive 45 minutes spending gas money, to save a phone call???? Then he said 'even though some of you don't turn in your expenses, are you really showing respect for Jehovah's dedicated funds?'
Ok - thats a few of mine - who else?
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Guess what I found in an old file cabinet in the Garage
by xelder ina bunch of blank congregation checks from when i filled in as the account servant many years ago.
and, i can copy the po's signature pretty well - lol .
if it wasn't illegal i would make out $1.00 checks to the salvation army, catholic church, homeless shelter (then they would be giving to charity - oh my) .
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xelder
A bunch of blank congregation checks from when I filled in as the account servant many years ago. And, I can copy the PO's signature pretty well - LOL
If it wasn't illegal I would make out $1.00 checks to the salvation Army, Catholic Church, Homeless Shelter (then they would be giving to charity - oh my)
I could redeposit cash into the box at the cong so I know that I didn't really steal.
I would love to watch them scramble to figure it out
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Recent Example of Molestation Policy
by xelder inin the 80's a very righteous elder in our congregation was caught molesting his 2 stepdaughters.
he was df'd.
within 5 years he was 60 miles down the road serving as an elder in another congregation.
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xelder
flipper -
just to clarify, he had no current allegations to go to the police with - or else that of course would be first step - we were worried about future ones. thanks for your excellent comments.
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Recent Example of Molestation Policy
by xelder inin the 80's a very righteous elder in our congregation was caught molesting his 2 stepdaughters.
he was df'd.
within 5 years he was 60 miles down the road serving as an elder in another congregation.
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xelder
In the 80's a very righteous elder in our congregation was caught molesting his 2 stepdaughters. He was DF'd. Within 5 years he was 60 miles down the road serving as an elder in another congregation. (His wife stayed with him) Later he was removed again and now he doesn't serve as an elder. Since then the WTS has made a few (but not enough) improvements in policy. But the legal system in the 80's was behind as well. (There wasn't Megan's law, etc.)
Very recently, we had an older convicted child molester, recently out of prison, attending our congregation. He was not baptized, but his wife was. (Yes, she stayed with him). A sister found out who he was because of seeing it on the "evil" internet. It turns out that the molestation had ocurred to a young girl in another congregation. We needed some information so our elder body had 2 elders call the WTS and the brother at Brooklyn was quite impatient with them and said, 'all you need to know is in letters we've already sent to you, go look in your file'. We disagreed because this was regarding a NON-WITNESS attending our meetings with his JW wife. We wanted to know what warnings we could give our congregation. We wanted to know how many times this had ocurred. What was the extent? Did he fondle her chest or rape her? Can we write to the last congregation for details? So we sent a written request of these issues to WTS.
Answer back was: Give a general talk if you want but no names. Do not mention named molester to anyone. If you see a need, make a shepherding call on a family to give a non-specific warning. Protect Ecclesiastical priviledge. Elders, moniter this individual, follow him into the bathroom - etc. I told the elder body that I would tell at risk families details because this was too important. If that's a problem, I shouldn't serve as an Elder. I told the CO and he said, "I think the legal department makes too many decisions anymore"
I know of elders who take turns with the other elders in there congregation to follow a molester at the assembly. If he sits in the cafeteria, so does the elder and his family. The Elders family has no idea why they have to sit in the cafeteria since all is confidential. But the molester is protected so that he has opportunity to turn around ?????
On the other hand. I've seen an issue when a couple is getting divorced and the wife accuses the husband of molesting a daughter. The daughter has no memory of it. Is it repressed? Is the divorce because of abuse? Or is the abuse accusation because of the divorce. The man is immediately not qualified for congregation priviledges. Given, maybe he's not being a good family head, what if he's innocent of molestation?
What if a 19 year old gets in trouble with his 17 year old girlfriend? Should the congregation view him forever as a molester?