xelder

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Posts by xelder

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  4

  "Vindicate God's Sovereignty"-JFR vs "Let your name be sanctified (or Hallowed)" -Jesus

  by xelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sorry if i missed it, but has there been a scriptural discussion of this?

  i know of jfr's need for vindication when he came up with the idea.

  any other biblical research on the difference between vindication and sanctified (hallowed) thanks.

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  xelder

  Sorry if I missed it, but has there been a scriptural discussion of this? I know of JFR's need for vindication when he came up with the idea. Any other biblical research on the difference between Vindication and Sanctified (Hallowed) thanks
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  6

  Millenium views? - Pre or Post

  by xelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've read both of ray franz's books (excellent) and both of carl o. jonsson's (also excellent) after dismantling the wt doctrine of 607 and last days, carl o. jonsson comments on the establishment of christ's kingdom in the year 33. i assume (i think i'm right) that he is supporting a postmillenialist or amillenialist view, as apposed to premillenialism.

  can anyone point me to a good source of information and discussion on these various views?

  do any of you favor one over another?

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  xelder

  I've read both of Ray Franz's books (excellent) and both of Carl O. Jonsson's (also excellent) After dismantling the WT doctrine of 607 and last days, Carl O. Jonsson comments on the establishment of Christ's kingdom in the year 33. I assume (I think I'm right) that he is supporting a Postmillenialist or Amillenialist view, as apposed to Premillenialism. Can anyone point me to a good source of information and discussion on these various views? Do any of you favor one over another? (Assuming you still beleive the Bible of course) Thanks in advance.
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  4

  Peace and Security - Berlin Wall Fell - 20 years and counting

  by xelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when east berlin opened, we heard lots stories of desperate people seeking jw's in west berlin.

  how is germanys growth now?

  how many from 20 years ago are still in?

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  xelder

  When East Berlin opened, we heard lots stories of desperate people seeking JW's in West Berlin. How is Germanys growth now? How many from 20 years ago are still in? Japan and Mexico were also held up as examples to shame the US lazy publishers. I once heard Lyman Swingle (GB) at a convention say that the US needed more war and distress so that the publishers would pay attention to the preaching work, like the fine publishers in other countries who don't have it as well.

  Every time the news mentions the word 'Peace', JW's go nuts with joy. If the news says 'Peace and Security' in the same paragraph, every "foxhole" JW starts attending meetings again.

  Now, obviously, I'm no scholar. But let me explain what I read in 1 Thessalonians. Paul had just escaped the Jews in Thessolonica and wrote this letter from Corinth. He sent Timothy back up north to deliver it. When Paul says. 'it is righteous on God's part to repay tribulation to those who cause tribulation to you and THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW GOD', the Christians would assume that he's talking about Jews from their city. When he talks about 'the day of the lord', I say he's talking about the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. (JW's say it applies today to Armageddon and all (even those who don't know God) will be destroyed. I also think that the comments later in the letter on 'Peace and Security', apply exactly to the situation in Jerusalem between 66 and 70. Romans pulled back, then a brief peace and security, then they came back and destroyed the place. Who says it should be applied 2000 years later. I know Freddy did
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  7

  CO handovers

  by cantleave in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have just been reading the thread about co do get togethers and it led me to think of a question that i have had for years.. every three years the co rotate and a circuite will get a new guy to hound the elders.

  my question is, what level of handover info does the new incumbent get from the leaving co?

  i now they get the congregation reports but is their any exchange of personal information regarding elders personalities / weaknesses, are potential trouble makers identified etc.?

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  xelder

  Had to run to the mail - I'm back now

  Actually, quite a few brothers turn down parts, and the CO gets exasperated because its just more work for him. Lots of times, thats why you see the same speakers every assembly. Not everyone is willing.

  The worst is the Saturday afternoon symposium of a 2 day assembly. That part is under special attention for the DO to tweak locally as he sees fit. Therefore, he wants the same speakers at the A,B,C parts of the circuit so there are less rehearsals. So the parts (which usually have interviews, skits, and other participants) require preperation, rehearse to CO, rehearse to DO, and 3 weekends to give the parts. So there goes 2 months of any extra time you had. I quit giving those.

  The baptism talk is the favorite to give for most elders. No participants, therefore usually no rehearsals, 30 minutes to be marvelous.
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  7

  CO handovers

  by cantleave in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have just been reading the thread about co do get togethers and it led me to think of a question that i have had for years.. every three years the co rotate and a circuite will get a new guy to hound the elders.

  my question is, what level of handover info does the new incumbent get from the leaving co?

  i now they get the congregation reports but is their any exchange of personal information regarding elders personalities / weaknesses, are potential trouble makers identified etc.?

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  xelder

  Ahh, I see. Its all about the Label, they want to know what you are. It's OK if your cancer is terminal-they lable that excuse as OK. If your family needs you for a bit, that is usually accepted too. THEY WANT TO KNOW THE EXCUSE - then they lable you and are comfortable (unless the lable is weak, or apostate)

  Fortunately, my family has always been fairly low profile socially. I was very busy, but kept personal issues to our family. Some are much more social and this can become a hinderance with a fade.

  Vague is good, I have some personal family matters. or My circustances need a change in my attention at the moment, I hope you understand dear brother. I sure love the friends in the congregation - and so on
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  7

  CO handovers

  by cantleave in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have just been reading the thread about co do get togethers and it led me to think of a question that i have had for years.. every three years the co rotate and a circuite will get a new guy to hound the elders.

  my question is, what level of handover info does the new incumbent get from the leaving co?

  i now they get the congregation reports but is their any exchange of personal information regarding elders personalities / weaknesses, are potential trouble makers identified etc.?

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  xelder

  I filled in to help the CO change in our circuit once. Due to circumstances, the CO had to leave the circuit about 3 months early. I kept the circuit files and would help with the weekly transitions as substitute CO's came each week. The circuit file has a file for each congregation. The contents are mostly utility stuff (who was appointed as servants last few visits-etc) However, if a CO feels that a matter in a congregation may possibly be an issue again, the written letters associated are kept so that the future CO can see them and not start at square one all the time. The more prominent a brother was who became a problem and 'fell from approval', the more likely a letter 'since this man had been given great trust and is probably very capable, but we need to be cautious of him now for some time'. There is definitely a verbal exchange of the lowdown at the changing of the guard. Also, Assembly overseers and PO.s (coordinators now) are sought out for opinions and status, and I was always surprized at how much the comments of these 'heavy' brothers would be relied on.

  Usually, the outgoing CO schedules the first few months of the new CO's route since he will be new to the area. The former CO usually assigns the assembly speaking parts for the first upcoming circuit assembly since he knows the brothers who are better speakers and or the 'best' examples.

  District speaking assignments are made a different way since congregations possibly attend different District Conventions each year. A varying group of 3-4 brothers meet with the CO around January and decide who in the circuit would be qualified for various types of parts on a District Convention. The recommendations are forwarded to the branch, who then make assigments and send those to the speakers by direct mail. Even though they try to rotate some of the elders who attend this annual meeting, its still a good ol boys club. At this meeting, recommendations are also made for brothers who would be qualified to serve on appeal committees and the special committees.

  I hope this helps with what you wanted to know
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  13

  How JW's Label each other (size the other up)

  by xelder in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my experience has been that among jw's, its very important that they understand each others spiritual status.

  this is accomplished within the first 5 min of meeting a new person.

  this is necessary so that they know what kind of person you are.

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  xelder

  My experience has been that among JW's, its very important that they understand each others spiritual status. This is accomplished within the first 5 min of meeting a new person. This is necessary so that they know what kind of person you are. Have you ever noticed when JW's meet a new person, they use a series of comments and questions to establish their own righteousness as well as inquire of the worthiness of the new acquaintance.

  How long have you been in the truth? (this establishes a basis for the context for the rest of the discussion. How much you should know by now, if indeed you are worthy of my association)

  Oh, my son is in bethel and my daughter is a pioneer ( code for what an awesome spiritual family we are - you should be impressed)

  My dad was good friends with Brother Schroeder (etc) - (code for we are among the elite and will drop names to prove it)

  I have 2 talks next week before I can get to working on my assembly talk

  How big is your congregation - how many elders and pioneers (code - who cares about the widows and orphans)

  I enjoyed the latest WT article on __________ (fill in the blank). Did you notice the point in this weeks number 3 talk. (Code for I study and prep for all meetings - just making sure you know how awesome I am - my cong is most fortunate to have me)

  If you miss a few meetings, you need to clarify this so that you are still viewed ok. We missed you (code are you getting weak?) Oh you were sick? sorry to hear (code-well if it really was that I will still talk to you) Or - "We were on vacation" "Oh.......(pause)...again? - well gad your back to what's important.

  Anyway - with a proper label on the other person, we now know how faithful they are.
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  12

  JW a cult? - what it means to them

  by xelder in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  with almost 50 years as a jw, i often heard jw's called a cult.

  i now realize that to defend this, a kind of straw man has been created.

  the wts has simply defined a cult for them as following men (namely ct russel).

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  xelder

  With almost 50 years as a JW, I often heard JW's called a cult. I now realize that to defend this, a kind of Straw man has been created. The WTS has simply defined a cult for them as following men (namely CT Russel). "We survived long past CT Russel, therefore not a cult", they say.

  To a JW, they don't think of mind control tactics as a cult definition. When you say cult to a JW, they just think, "I haven't read much about Russel in years or anything he wrote. Therefore, I know I'm not in a cult." They don't even consider shunning, as a cult practice. It was finally the DF shunning that first bothered me the most. When I read scripural proof that DF does not have Biblical support, it really started to wake me up, especially since I had participated in so many judical hearings, which now are my constant regret.
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  29

  Question for elder/ex-elders

  by TweetieBird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why do elders, in judicial committee meetings when dealing with immorality, have to ask so many personal questions, i.e.

  how many times, was oral sex involved, anal sex, how many times, etc.

  is it really necessary or are the elders just getting off asking about someone else's sex life?

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  xelder

  Elder: Are you pregnant (or Is she pregnant?)

  person: no

  Elder: How do you know?

  person: we used a condom

  Elder: Oh, so you planned to do this. It wasn't that you were just overcome.

  These types of questions are supposed to pry into motive
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  7

  Mitochondrial DNA

  by xelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  recent research involving mitochondrial dna traces human genetics through the mother.

  human migration can be traced and time periods estimated.

  a human family tree is developed.

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  xelder

  Recent Research involving Mitochondrial DNA traces human genetics through the mother. Human migration can be traced and time periods estimated. A human family tree is developed. Genetic Eve is thought to have been in Africa about 40,000 years ago.

  This runs against a literal reading of the Genesis creation account. But I think it can still be merged. Nils Jensma has some great stuff on this.

  Maybe God created things by using evolution as well as points of miraculous creation. I think man got to a point where God gave him spirituality and then, therefore, moral responsibility.

  Any comments? Thanks