Posts by Truthexplorer

25

Why Would Someone Like me Leave the "Truth"? Part 1

by cantleave in

jw
friends

the title of this series of threads is rhetorical.

i am going to answer it with my own experience.

before i do that, i want to discuss what we are told through the literature and the instruction that is given during meetings, assemblies and conventions, for the reasons why people leave the truth.. the watchtower of 15 november 2008, in the article help them return without delay indicates people leave because of the following:.

Truthexplorer

Hi Cantleave,

I juSt diScovered I am the same age as you.

Am looking forward to part 2.

TE

21

Interesting WT Study today...Friendship

by monkeyman in

blondie probably commented on this before, but i couldnt find it.............. here's how to make friends....... the meat of this article began with the subject of when friendships should end.

(oh that sounds friendly).

how to view friends who no longer believe some of the teachings of jw.............. (cut them off).

Truthexplorer

Under the section 'When Friendships need to end' in para 15, it bluntly asks how we should view a friend inside the congregation who decides to turn their back on Jehovah, perhaps needing to be disfellowshipped?

Then in Para 16 it states we cannot expect to remain a friend of God if we side with those who choose to be a friend of the world.

So, a person who has decided that in their good conscience they can no longer allow themself to preach untruths or attend meetings because of the many errors and rigid controling policies of the WT Org (and of course are unable to freely express why they can no longer be part of the WT Org), must then be cut off by friends, who may have had a close friendship 20 or 30 years, perhaps since childhood.

I only had to look round our 3/4 empty hall today and feel totally encouraged and inspired by the food at the proper time!!!

TE

3

Lack of tolerance shown by elder bodies

by Truthexplorer in

this question is specifically to ex elders or anyone with some insight to my question.. i read in the flock book (which i downloaded of the internet recently .

take the initiative to help anyone in the congregation who has taken some false step: do your best to readjust him (gal 6:1).

it then mentions the following: .

Truthexplorer

Billy the ex bethelite

My experience? Most BoEs will make it up as they go along. Most are too busy to get that involved helping the weak ones. The bOrg already expects much of the elders with their assignments and trying to have a perfect family, along with as many hours as possible in the futile recruiting work. Those that are sincere and put forth effort to help weak ones usually find themselves exhausted trying to drag some of these along, finally get them on their feet and active. The moment the elder looks away, the weak one is fading again. So, most of the elders figure the weak prefer to be weak.

and cantleave

The strategies rarely worked (usually because no one had the time to follow them through), and the most that happened was asking Brother weak to retrospectively give some FS hour before the CO vivit so he wasn't counted as inactive.

Wow, that is really insightful; I never looked at it from that angle before. I can fully understand why elders are so exhausted given so many tasks to do (So much for the load being light). Yes it is interesting to see why in many cases, they are just too tired out to carry weaker ones along. It is also interesting that although strategies may be put in place to help weaker ones that there simply isnt the time to commit to following through.

It is also incredible to think that elders are under such pressure to get the figures in for the CO!! I mean, persuading an inactive publisher to get an hour in before the CO visit is laughable; the whole set up of reporting FS hours is an absolute joke. Sounds to me like fear of man than fear of God.

That was and still is one of my gripes-having to produce a report slip each month. When will the men at the top realise that the preaching work should be done out of love for God (not an obligation to fill out a slip with a publishers quota for the month!!).

Thanks to both of you for giving me a view from an elders perspective.

TE

3

Lack of tolerance shown by elder bodies

by Truthexplorer in

this question is specifically to ex elders or anyone with some insight to my question.. i read in the flock book (which i downloaded of the internet recently .

take the initiative to help anyone in the congregation who has taken some false step: do your best to readjust him (gal 6:1).

it then mentions the following: .

Truthexplorer

This question is specifically to ex elders or anyone with some insight to my question.

I read in the flock book (which I downloaded of the internet recently ) that elders were to

Take the initiative to help anyone in the congregation who has taken some false step: do your best to readjust him (Gal 6:1)

It then mentions the following:

Yet, do not create ill will toward a weak one in the congregation who is being helped.

keep watch over their souls, since you will render an account for them too (Heb 13:17)

Discern the difference between a weak person and a wicked person.

My question is this; Is there a level of tolerance elders succumb to? For example, a young brother who is obviously showing signs of depression (not diagnosed), but misses meetings every now and then, gets help from the elders, but may perhaps lapse back again (missing meetings etc basically a little bit up and down when it comes to attendance). Yet that brother, though struggling with his own feelings is trying to attend meetings etc. Is there a point in what you may have experienced/witnessed, where elders simply throw in the towel and simply ignore that brother who is obviously struggling to adjust to his new faith. Have you ever heard elders talk amongst themselves or make comments like 'he's a no hoper' (or the like).

Also, do elders talk amonst themselves to discuss if an individual is weak or wicked for whatever the reason. For eg.. if a brother they deem to be both weak (obviously needing encouragement), yet is considered wicked also (lets say they like to bring the KJV bible to meetings and is perhaps doing things slightly diffrenetly-not putting their report slip in etc)... As a body, do the elders talk it over as to how they view such a person-do they mark them-ignore them-watch them like a hawk etc.

Just wondered how the rules (as mentioned from the flock book above) generally affect elder practice and the BOE as a whole?

TE

22

The 'other sheep' - Isn't it so obvious that Jesus is talking about gentiles?

by jambon1 in

am i being silly or do some other religions have a different understanding of who the 'other sheep' are?.

when i was a jw, i could see so clearly that this group is the gentiles.

that is, of course, reading the text 'in context', rather than simply placing it in a flakey jw leaflet.. why can jehovahs witnesses not see that they are so wrong on this point?.

Truthexplorer

Excellent post Jambon,

The scriptures are clearly talking about the gentiles

http://perimeno.ca/Other%20Sheep.htm

TE

24

Perimeno

by Truthexplorer in

after i decided/resolved to return to meetings several months ago, after being away on and off for several years; i can honestly say that i feel far more settled and comfortable in attending meetings again.. i struggled to attend before, having been reproved, then moving to a different congregation which i didnt find to be overly freindly.

it was only after i was reproved that i began to see all the past history of the soc iety(via internet) and the many things that simply stumbled me.

3 times i tried to return to meetings and three times i fell away.

Truthexplorer

Georgiagirl

Coupla' questions.

1. What is perimeno's real name and congregation?

To be honest, I don't know, and what's more I don't feel I need to know; just as you don't know my name and Congregation. Sadly, like most on this site, we have to protect our identities, because of the society's harsh policies about speaking freely.

In saying that, I believe in the spirit of truth; and when something is said or mentioned that makes sense, I use my own perceptive or thinking ability to decide whether I agree or disagree with what has been written or said. As I have said before, I don't agree with Perimeno on everything he has written, but he does explain very well, and in great detail (using scripture) where things are blatantly wrong with a number of the societies teachings and policies.

2. If they are not readily available, why not? Do you really think the WTBS sanctions his/her website and personal viewpoints?

During Jesus ministry throughout Israel, did the religious leaders sanction Jesus for pointing out the errors of all the burdensome man made laws that they had in place?

Let me put it this way; if sister anointed from 'Congregation London' humbly spoke to the elders within her Congregation, and/or contacted her fellow anointed brothers at Brooklyn; pointing out an error in teaching saying for example that it had been revealed to her that lets say- the 1914 teaching is absolutely wrong and believed that the spirit was directing her to speak about this error!!. How do you think she would be dealt with?

You can be sure, and it has happened before, that if she were to persist and preach to others in her Congregation about such an error (just using the 1914 as an example). She would eventually end up being disfellowshipped. The point I am making is that of the 9 thousand or so anointed ones (the anointed figures seem to be rising of late). Only a dozen or so have any say as to what is written in the Watchtower and other publications; or basically those within the writing department within Brooklyn.

The point I am making is that there is no freedom of thought when it comes to scripture. In Brooklyn's view it's my way or the byway. It makes no difference if you are an anointed one or member of the great crowd.

Of course the society would never sanction Perimenos website. But at least he can express his views over the internet. People are intelligent enough in deciding if they agree or not with those views; a relative freedom of thought, which for me is encouraging.

3. Exactly how long do you think a person would actually last who a: went to the elders and mentioned a: associating with apostates via the internet, b: a copy of perimeno's website with the statement of agreement with perimeno's teachings/thoughts?

To be honest, they would not last very long. By the way, I don't consider everyone an apostate on this site. There are many on this site who, like myself are witnesses. There are many who have faded away because of their unhappiness and confused feelings about the society. There are those who may feel very bitter about things and vent their anger at the way they have been treated by their congregation elders, and may feel they have lost their faith. There are those who are simply curious about our beliefs or those from other Christian denominations wanting to know about the beliefs of Jehovahs witnesses.

I don't tend to argue or debate with people who once professed to be Christian and blatantly deny God, the bible and Jesus Christ and spit venom at those who do believe. On such forums as this one, though there are many view points, I choose whether or not to answer or reply to some posts. What's more, to me, association in the real sense is having a friendship or fellowship with a person or group of people having conversation with them face to face.

Also, though there are many who were disfellowshipped on this site; what were they disfellowshipped for?. Was it truly scriptural or was it simply due to a disagreement about the society's teachings. I have a different view of who I would consider apostate to that of the society's view.

4. Can someone who claims to be Christian and thus a follower of Christ REALLY associate with an organization that "treated their flock in many cases in a dreadful manner" and yet still have a good conscience?

I believe that, on the whole, the majority of Jehovahs Witnesses are genuine sincere people who simly wish to worship and please God; who find peace in their lives having such a realtionship. There are many loving brothers and sisters who are a pleasure to have fellowship with. I don't blame the rank and file for some of the society's harsh policies in the way they have treated their flock.

For example, witnesses who have been disfellowshipped for simply disagreeing with a certain teaching or where there is obvious overkill when someone has slipped up and committed a serious sin like fornication (ie a one off/slip up-not practicing fornication), whereby wrong decisions have been made by a body of elders. Where tenderness and compassion should be shown, some congregation elders are all too quick to publicly humiliate such ones by disfellowshipping them. This then entails the congregation shunning such ones for a lengthy period of time (which they have been taught to do through WT reasoning). In such cases, such ones may never return to meetings due to the unloving way they were treated by the body of elders.

A group of men at Brooklyn have set themselves up to Lord it over their brothers and sisters throughout the world. Things will change soon, whether in the immediate future or in the new age where righteousness will dwell. I know there will be light at the end of the tunnel in which all things will be made clear. I am willing to wait until then. My conscience is clear in that I will be sharing the good news of the Kingdom with others; and living as a Christian is taught to as it is truthfully written in the bible.

If you have time read "My PEOPLE LIKE IT THAT WAY". Perimeno explains in detail, how Christians such as myself can have a clear conscience whilst associating with Jehovahs witnesses.

24

Perimeno

by Truthexplorer in

after i decided/resolved to return to meetings several months ago, after being away on and off for several years; i can honestly say that i feel far more settled and comfortable in attending meetings again.. i struggled to attend before, having been reproved, then moving to a different congregation which i didnt find to be overly freindly.

it was only after i was reproved that i began to see all the past history of the soc iety(via internet) and the many things that simply stumbled me.

3 times i tried to return to meetings and three times i fell away.

Truthexplorer

Liliith26

'So.... do you 'partake'??? ... do you consider yourself one of the 144000???'

No, I do not consider myself part of the 144000; but I believe that all Christians should partake. Yes, there are outstanding ones (holy ones/saints/144000) who have a special calling to rule as Kings and priests over the earth-Rev 5:10. Whether such ones remain on earth to rule or actually ascend to heaven itself and rule from there is unclear to me - but whatever the case such ones will be chosen as described in scripture to rule over/on the earth (depending on the bible translation you read from).

I would suggest you read the article written by Perimeno - John 10:16 - Who are the other sheep"?

This article explains very well why things are the way they are. It goes into great detail as to why only the anointed are allowed to partake of the emblems today. It also mentions why since 1935, the great multitude or great crowd are mere onlookers when present at Jesus memorial.

I don't partake for the time being, though I know in my heart I should; but I believe that Jehovah understands my situation. He knows that imperfect men have put this policy in place which makes it impossible at the present time to partake. The important thing is that I am there and I believe that there will come a time when there will be change. It's just a case of being patient and discreet until things change.

TE

24

Perimeno

by Truthexplorer in

after i decided/resolved to return to meetings several months ago, after being away on and off for several years; i can honestly say that i feel far more settled and comfortable in attending meetings again.. i struggled to attend before, having been reproved, then moving to a different congregation which i didnt find to be overly freindly.

it was only after i was reproved that i began to see all the past history of the soc iety(via internet) and the many things that simply stumbled me.

3 times i tried to return to meetings and three times i fell away.

Truthexplorer

"Keep waiting (perimeno) for what
the Father has promised."?Acts 1:4

24

Perimeno

by Truthexplorer in

after i decided/resolved to return to meetings several months ago, after being away on and off for several years; i can honestly say that i feel far more settled and comfortable in attending meetings again.. i struggled to attend before, having been reproved, then moving to a different congregation which i didnt find to be overly freindly.

it was only after i was reproved that i began to see all the past history of the soc iety(via internet) and the many things that simply stumbled me.

3 times i tried to return to meetings and three times i fell away.

Truthexplorer

Thanks to all for your response to my post. There are many points brought out, but as I dont get much time on the internet due to different commitments, I would like to answer the underlined question asked by yknot and believingxjw

'So would you say that the JWs are your tradition (fellowship, routine, culture..... etc) rather than your faith (ie Christ is your mediator, son of God)?'

Yes, JW's are merely my tradition, if you want to put it that way. To me my local congregation is no different to the congregations in 1st century Ephesus or Corinth in that Christians attend to fellowship, and worship God, because of their love for God and his son Jesus Christ. Each Congregation in the 1st Century had Gods word and the helper (sent in Jesus name)- the holy spirit. Sadly, for the time being, the GB at Brooklynn has displaced Gods holy spirit (which in the 1st century for example, the holy spirit being sent by God in Jesus name, to teach and bring back to mind all that Jesus had taught-John 14:16,17). The GB has now set itself up in place of the holy spirit and rather than allowing each local Congregation to receive the holy spirit to teach all things from Gods word, we now have man made rules beyond what is written in scripture, a history of false prophecies and teachings that blatantly dishonor Jehovah; a lack of love in many congregations, and the very reason why many within the flock have been dealt with harshly and unfairly.

I therefore now believe that Jesus Christ, the son of God is my mediator, as he is to all Christians (not those who claim to be Christians, whome Christ will Judge); and that is why I now have my faith restored in God.

My view is that although I associate with the JW's (ie use their hall to pray, fellowship, sing songs of praise, and treat each individual s a true brother or sister as Christ taught his disciples; to spread the good news of Gods coming Kingdom) I first and foremost view myself as a Christian. If someone asks me what my religion is?. I will tell them I am a Christian and thats it. If they specifically ask me which denomination, I will tell them I associate with Jehovahs witnesses, but prefer to simply be called a Christian. If they want to discuss it more deeply, I will then explain my christian view point to them.

Hope this explains a little as to what I beleive, and again thanks for taking the time to read.

I will keep you posted regarding my renewed faith and the journey I have now chosen.

TE

24

Perimeno

by Truthexplorer in

after i decided/resolved to return to meetings several months ago, after being away on and off for several years; i can honestly say that i feel far more settled and comfortable in attending meetings again.. i struggled to attend before, having been reproved, then moving to a different congregation which i didnt find to be overly freindly.

it was only after i was reproved that i began to see all the past history of the soc iety(via internet) and the many things that simply stumbled me.

3 times i tried to return to meetings and three times i fell away.

Truthexplorer

Hi everyone,

After I decided/resolved to return to meetings several months ago, after being away on and off for several years; I can honestly say that I feel far more settled and comfortable in attending meetings again.

I struggled to attend before, having been reproved, then moving to a different congregation which I didnt find to be overly freindly. It was only after I was reproved that I began to see all the past history of the Soc iety(via internet) and the many things that simply stumbled me.

3 Times I tried to return to meetings and three times I fell away. I felt crushed, worthless, a sinner, no good, lack of brotherly affection at my new hall etc etc; I would also look at all the things wrong with the society and think what is the point; I dont believe certain teachings, such as 1914.

I would scowl the internet searching for the true faith (Christian denomination that adhered to scripture), the one and only faith as I am sure many on this site have perhaps done so.

Just at the point where I was beginning to lose faith in the bible itself, I decided to give the bible another chance. I had never read through the bible in its entirety. I decided to use a nicely laid out KJ version which contains a method at the back as to how to study the bible daily.

I would underline scriptures that stood out and pencil in some of my own thoughts. About 4 months in, I found myself getting more and more into this method of study and began to have a completely different take on the bible. I was astounded at what I was reading and fascinated at the whole history of the ancient hebrews and how it all came about. I discovered that YHWH is a merciful God and that many times he could have wiped mankind off the planet, but put up with our disobedience, and rebelliousness. I discovered that, time and time and time again, the Israelites (Gods chosen people-a nation for his name) constantly rebelled against their very maker. I discovered that all we truly are is dust/clay that lives a short while and then we are gone. YHWH could snap his fingers if he wished and make us disappear. Yet he is giving you and I the chance to prove ourselves and live within his promised Kingdom. Yes it is a hope, but I have built my faith in that hope, which is giving me the peace I need in my life.

It was after about 4 months that I decided to pray to God and to ask for forgiveness for my sins. I discovered that through Gods grace and mercy through Jesus, that he will forgive us and strengthen us (by means of the helper-his holy spirit) if we are sincere towrd him. The realtionship I was building was a direct relationship with God thru his son Jesus Christ; a very real one. I started feeling that love in my heart coming back again, ie the love a person feels for about the first year after studying the bible when becoming a witness. That is a feeling I didnt feel for some 18 years.

I would come across scriptures like Luke 18:1 where Jesus explained that we should always pray and not to give up; or as the KJ version says 'dont lose heart'. Just simple scriptures like that would suddenly dawn on me and help me realise ok I lapse back some times and might sin; yet why should I give up- just keep going and overcome it.

I know my weaknesses and I find that I am now beginning to overcome my weaknesses. Thats Gods spirit working, because my realtionship is growing. I decided several months ago to return to the meetings with my new outlook. I know that the society have a lot of things that are wrong and I will not beleive what I beleive to be blatant error; but my realtionship is with Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ; not a group of imperfect men at Brooklynn who have set themselves up on a pedestal dishing out truth with error.

Although much of what the society are doing is sincere and genuine, such as the cause in spreading the Kingdom message and on the whole trying to do good; they have also caused a lot of stumbling and treated their flock in many cases in a dreadful manner as many on the JWDF express daily.

It is on this point that I would direct as many people to have a read of the information at the following site http://perimeno.ca/index.htm Many of you have probably read many of the articles on this site, but boy does he hit the nail on the head with many of the points he has made with regard to why things are the way they are with the WTS. I am not saying I agree with Perimeno on every single point, but he certainly explains how we can get rid of that anger and frustration we may be feeling right now; and how we can have a real and true relationship with God again.

I truly feel much more settled and happier in my self knowing that one day all truth will be revealed; that all the grey areas will be made clear; that individuals who are treating Gods people harshly now will soon face their day of Judgement as described by Perimeno (unless they change and humble themselves as Jesus explained to his disciples).

I have my faith back again and feel right now that nothing can ever stumble me or cause me to break my realtionship with God anymore. Yes, it will be hard for me as I will be trying to avoid preaching things I dont agree with when out in the ministry; and know that I may very possibly end up being disfellowshipped for what the society views as apostasy (ie sharing clear biblical truths and avoiding all erroneus/unclear teachings).

I would therefore urge everyone to read the articles on the site above. It is information that is not meant to stumble anyone, but rather to encourage and sustain you not to give up your personal realtionship with God. You will discover many Scriptural truths that will make absolute sense when reading these articles.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Christian Love

TE