Posts by zengalileo

3

What can ex-JWs learn from Harvey Milk?

by zengalileo in

jw
friends

if you haven't seen the movie "milk" starring sean penn, or is you have not seen a documentary or read up on harvey milk, then it'll be hard for you to have an opinion on this.. this is not a "gay" thread.

the fact that harvey milk was gay and was a civil rights leadewr for the gay movement has nothing to do with the point i will make here.. harvey milk when he was campaingning for city supervisor for san francisco and fighting against prop 6 in the mid 70s came upon some marketing research that said, where a person actually knows a gay person, they vote favorably towards gay civil rights 2 to 1. this made him come up with his policy that everyone working on his campaign that had not come out as gay to their freinds and family, had to come out.

i'm not sure if there were any consequences if someone just refused to come out; the movie didn't say and neither did the documentary.. .

zengalileo

ABIBle student's idea of a more soft, anonymous coming out has already been tried thousands of times. anonymous this. anonymous that. It is anonymity that keeps the watchtower strong. The whole strategy behind shunning is that either people will come back in out of extreme black mail, or they will just crawl off into the bushes and die never to be seen again.

Don't you see that "triggering shunning" is the only way to fight it. It's time to call the Watchtower out to a public brawl, not leave snappy messages behind in a paper chase. A 2 to 1 margin (by the way I was wrong above about 2 to 1 being the same as 2 out of 3. actually 2 to 1 is actually more like 3 out of 4. Correct me if I'm wrong any math people) means that most people if they actually KNOW an "apostate" will be favorable towards them, and probably NOT shun them. That is not a sure thing because this is not the Gay rights issue and other dynamics come to play in it. But no matter what, not EVERY JW will shun their family members who come out as a non believer. But no matter the percentage of JWs who will refuse to shun their family, the fact that enormous amounts of people will get disfellowshipped will trigger a responbse in the worldly world hopefully. I am literally saying that families will be destroyed irrepairably over this. I am ADVOCATING the deliberate destruction of all families that are propped up on the lie of the Watchtower. as long as we continue in silence about our true feelings and beliefs about the Watchtower, the Watchtower wins. They designed it to work this way and it is woprking due to a lack of EXTRA Courage and zeal for the truth.

People are valuing family at all cost ideology rather than a truth at all cost ideology. Sure there should be a balance between truth and sabotaging a decent family. One need not be wreckless about coming out. But the power of my idea lies in tyhe inevitability that families will be destroyed. People may even commit suicide over this. It happened in the Gay Rights movement no one can deny.

Lies do have a place in society. I am not saying we all have to tell our wives that they look fat in a dress. But if you believ, as I do that the Watchtower is hurting people, then this calls for a summoning of courage among all supporters of the Watchtower who inside their hearts do not support it.

Think about a national coming out day.

86

QFR WT MARCH 15TH - PORN - D/F

by stillajwexelder in

i assume you are all aware of this by now.

qfr could a christians practice of viewing pornography.

become so bad that it results in his being expelled.

zengalileo

I've never "Just stumbled" upon porn before. I don't get how that could happen. If I search "pussy" however, I knjow I am going to get some porn. You have to be aware of what wordss are dual meaning and likely to get you some porn. As a teacher, I have to keep my computer clean of any porn, and so far I have been able to do that without a problem. I have never been attacked by porn as it were.

3

What can ex-JWs learn from Harvey Milk?

by zengalileo in

jw
friends

if you haven't seen the movie "milk" starring sean penn, or is you have not seen a documentary or read up on harvey milk, then it'll be hard for you to have an opinion on this.. this is not a "gay" thread.

the fact that harvey milk was gay and was a civil rights leadewr for the gay movement has nothing to do with the point i will make here.. harvey milk when he was campaingning for city supervisor for san francisco and fighting against prop 6 in the mid 70s came upon some marketing research that said, where a person actually knows a gay person, they vote favorably towards gay civil rights 2 to 1. this made him come up with his policy that everyone working on his campaign that had not come out as gay to their freinds and family, had to come out.

i'm not sure if there were any consequences if someone just refused to come out; the movie didn't say and neither did the documentary.. .

zengalileo

If you haven't seen the movie "MILK" starring Sean Penn, or is you have not seen a documentary or read up on Harvey Milk, then it'll be hard for you to have an opinion on this.

This is not a "gay" thread. The fact that harvey Milk was gay and was a civil rights leadewr for the gay movement has nothing to do with the point I will make here.

Harvey Milk when he was campaingning for City supervisor for San Francisco and fighting against Prop 6 in the mid 70s came upon some marketing research that said, where a person actually knows a gay person, they vote favorably towards gay civil rights 2 to 1. This made him come up with his policy that everyone working on his campaign that had not come out as gay to their freinds and family, had to come out. I'm not sure if there were any consequences if someone just refused to come out; the movie didn't say and neither did the documentary.

How this applies to ex-JWs

I've gone on a few rants about how I think every non believing JW still living a lie should just come out. And I'm always slapped down pretty hard by people who insist that I'm not being "understanding about their situation" or that I'm being judgmental. so I am going to try hard to not be judgmental here. But I figure, in the very least, we should have a national day of "coming out of the Watchtower." I have suggested before the first day of spring as that day each year when practicing JWs who no longer believe in it, come out to their friends and family.

Do I know what I am saying?

Yes. I know that this will mean instant shunning for many who do this. That is why I am not ASKING anybody to do this. I am just putting it out there into the consciousness of the universe, so that those who feel a kinship with the suggestion may act upon it of they so desire.

I am not saying that JWs who no longer believe lack courage. But I would like to just make the general statement that, what such a decision would require, (coming out of the Watchtower) is EXTRA COURAGE. courage above and beyond normal courage. Courage that says "truth is nmore important than my family staying together based on some delusion or shared lie." or, "Freedom is more important than friends or family that when put to the test, will drop you like a ton of lead for going against the Watchtower Co.

I get it that this is a very unpopular opinion. But, getting back to Harvey Milk, if 2 out of 3 people vote favorably to a cause if they know someone in that cause, well, then, there is going to be a great multitude of people, JWs, who just REFUSE to shun their own flesh and blood. It ALREADY happens that way. A certain percentage of JWs actually do not shun their family members even though it is breaking the rules. That is just a fact.

But if incredible droves of people started comeing out of the Watchtower, coming out as a non-believer in it, if all those who came out were shunned, this would create an incredible social/sopcietal holocaust. Tens of thousands of families would be destroyed. Individuals would be homeless, suicides would take place in great numbers, all sorts of societal catastrophes would happen, and nonJWs, worldly people just wouldn't stand for it any more. They would pass legislation to outlaw shunning due to the incredible harm it perpetuates upon society in general.

I believe that IF mass amounts of people were to come out, especially suddenly all on one day, we would have ourselves a real civil rights movement on our hands, whereas now, we got what we got in terms of rights against a religious corporation. The corporation has all the rights. There is no such thing as "Interorganizational civil rights...YET!" Only if people were to start coming out like crazy can we ever hope to get more attention and someday get some support from ther government. Right now the ACLU fiercely defends the Watchtower's and other religions' right to shun. They need to see the destruction that this practice does before they will ever see us as a group of people with rights.

17

It's Time to Stop Saying...

by zengalileo in

it's time to stop saying that jehovah's witnesses do not accept blood transfusions.

it just isn't true any longer.

i have posted documentary evidence of jws world wide accepting whole platelets , whole plasma, whole white blood cells, their own whole blood after it being stored up to six hours, and evidence of them saying they are "very happy" that the courts ordered the transfusion of their children saving their lives.

zengalileo

Thanks for pointing that out Marvin. I'll get on that link right away. I thought we fixed that once before, so I don't know why it's not working.

As to why I decided to word the link the way I did, well:

The problem with simply saying JWs accept plasma and platelets is that every JW AND every doctor is going to simply say, "No they don't. I know better. I deal with JWs every day..." and then they will not look into it further. When I say NOW, I am annopuncing officially that we have anecdotal eveidence of a JW accepting plasma and platelets, it is in a peer reviewed article, and the patient in question was not punished, however they did die. I'm not trying to MIS lead anybody, I am trying to LEAD them to the undeniable FACT that JWs are no different than any other population out there who accepts ALL forms of blood transfusions.

My goal is to save lives. As the Watchtower continues to retrain its people to accept blood transfusions and not punish them for it, I feel an obligation to report this to Jehovah's Witnesses. The doctrinal change and the admission of being wrong, let's face it, may never come. But Jehovah's Witnesses accepting blood transfusions, that is happening NOW, right now. AJWRB in the past HINTED at this fact, but now it is going to become the central message of AJWRB. JWs accept blood. JWs accept blood. Only a small fraction of extremist or fundamentalist JWs and some real old timers still reject blood.

"so we just need to word this right and play their same game of semantics" YES. This is what the medical community is doing. They are playing along with JWs in their delusion that they do not accpet blood transfusions. If it will save lives then I support that. But in the meantime, I have decided to not play the Watchtower's silly game of semantics. They can say they reject blood all they want. But the fact is, they accept blood transfusions, NOW.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

zen

444

The music that moves you....

by FlyingHighNow in

once when i was profoundly sad for too many days, my brother in law sent us a mix tape.

he named each song after a person in our family.

this is the one he named heather.

zengalileo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIDj0SVWeBU&ob=av2e

444

The music that moves you....

by FlyingHighNow in

once when i was profoundly sad for too many days, my brother in law sent us a mix tape.

he named each song after a person in our family.

this is the one he named heather.

zengalileo

2

AJWRB / Red Cross Blood Drive at Whole Foods El Segundo - 12/27/2011

by zengalileo in

at this blood drive, ajwrb will be there announcing the end of the jehovah's witness ban on blood.

it's time to stop playing the semantic game with jws and the watchtower.

they haven't been abstaining from blood for decades.

zengalileo

I want your blood. I will take nothing less.

2

AJWRB / Red Cross Blood Drive at Whole Foods El Segundo - 12/27/2011

by zengalileo in

at this blood drive, ajwrb will be there announcing the end of the jehovah's witness ban on blood.

it's time to stop playing the semantic game with jws and the watchtower.

they haven't been abstaining from blood for decades.

zengalileo

760 S. Sepulveda Bl, El Segundo, CA

20

How would you have explained this scripture as a JW or even as a Christian?

by StoneWall in

exodus 32:14 [nwt] " and jehovah began to feel regret over the evil that he had spoken of doing to his people".

this is taken from the new world translation but it is worded very closely the same in american standard, king james version and a couple other translations.

why do they refer to the "evil he had spoken of doing to his people"?

zengalileo

Jehovah says, "Oh dear, I'm sorry I hit you. Seriously dear, I won't ever do it again. But you make me so mad! Why dear, do you make me so mad??!! When I get home I tell you I want dinner on the table. Everyday it's the same thing, dinner is late. And I tell you no more ice berg lettuce, yet here, here is some ice berg lettuce. Here, let me shove it in your face and see how you like ice berg in the face! And speaking of ice bergs, having sex with you is like having sex with an ice berg. Can't you ever get on top just once? It makes me want to back hand you right in the face! I swear, don't tempt me dear, I will, I will wallop you. You see this fist? You think I won't do it? You thingk I wony punch you in the face? I'll kick you right in the crotch and if you say anything to anybody, I'll chop you up into little pieces and bury under your child's swing set!! You think I won't do it? Yeah? Just test me, just test me on this one time. AAAaahhhhhhh!"

21

untitled

by exwhyzee in

jw
friends

we hooked up with a family member who is married and in bethel 15+ years.

it's almost too exhausting to go into the details here so i'll condense everything into a few main areas that were talked about over a few days.. bottom line, my wife and i finally let them know that we are not jw's anymore and so far it looks like they aren't going to shun us.

we had a really nice time with them and their witness friends who assumed we were jw's too and couldn't have been nicer.. our bethelite family members had no idea what we had been through at the hands of he elders that was the final shove out of the organization and were in agreement that things were handled badly.

zengalileo

They sound pretty chill about the whole thing. You are lucky to have JW friends that take it all so casually.