Is there anyone here who will admit that they do NOT have a free mind? THAT would be really interesting.
zengalileo
JoinedPosts by zengalileo
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What does having a Free Mind mean to you?
by zengalileo ini am working on a couple of articles on the topic.
one is called "the heart of the free mind," and the other is "diary of a free mind.
my belief in christ is based on a supernatural experience that i had.
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What does having a Free Mind mean to you?
by zengalileo ini am working on a couple of articles on the topic.
one is called "the heart of the free mind," and the other is "diary of a free mind.
my belief in christ is based on a supernatural experience that i had.
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zengalileo
I am working on a couple of articles on the topic. One is called "The heart of the Free Mind," and the other is "Diary of a Free Mind." Love to get some thoughts on it from exJWs. What is really standing out to me at this point is the fact that among the ex-cult community, not just exJWs, there is quite a wide array of believers in what I personally would consider crazy beliefs. Myths, urban legends, false prophets, conspiracy theories and deadly beliefs are all believed in by the ex cult community as a whole. In some cases it seems to me that people have gone from the frying pan to the fire with their beliefs, religious or otherwise. What do we make of this? Has a person really freed their mind and broken loose of mind control if they just go from one crazy religion to another? this of course is all in the eyes of the beholder. What I think is crazy is perfectly rational to someone else. But there at the same time is probably a group of beliefs that are so out there that 99.9% of the earth does not believe them.
Here's a few examples of exJWs I know personally that have some crazy beliefs, and may or may not have free minds, I'll let you decide:
One of my best all-time friends actually believes the earth is flat (kid you not) and that it is a big conspiracy that it is otherwise. I haven't checked with him on this recently, but a few years ago he told me, "Now, don't just shoot this down out of reflex..." I tiold him I could prove to him with a stick and a shadow otherwise and I wouldn't need to refer to any pictures or books. He hasn't taken me up on that one.
My brother is a born again christian. So am I. But I don't believe in the Bible at all. He believes that Adam and Eve were real people. And he gives a lot of money to Benny Hinn. He also believes that God wants him to be rich, and that by giving to Benny Hinn, somehow that is going to happen.
Randy is fond of telling me, "Love people more, believe them less." I think this is a good philosophy. But still I wonder at how invested people are in their beliefs. I see every belief I have as a liability. There is no belief I have that if I were presented with discopnfirming evidence, I wouldn't abandon toot-sweet. I see this as a good quality for my character. Others see me as faithless. Actually I am faithless. I have no need whatsoever for faith. I only believe on evidence. The more evidence, the more belief. Simple. No evidence, no belief. My belief in Christ is based on a supernatural experience that I had. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't be;ieve at all. The Bible has no influence whatsoever in my believing in Christ. In fact my personla experience with christ contradicts much of the Bible. I prefer personal experience to "book worship." But I also wonder whether many here would consider me as not having a free mind based on my experience.
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Just tired of the label "Apostate".
by rjl15225 inbare with me on this post.
i just need to get it off my chest!.
i find it interesting that in so many threads here in this forum and in others, to find the reference to apostates.
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zengalileo
It does still hurt me whenever I'm relegated to a label. It is in fact a slur the way it is used by JWs. It is an instant thought-stopping slur, and an effective one. It is exactly the same as all the racist slurs out there ni@@er, sp*c, red n#ck, f@g etc. AND just like all those racist slurs, some groups actually take the slur and start referring to one another with it, most notably n*gger by African Americans. That is why we see many ex-JWs refer to themselves as apostates. I have at tinmes done this just because I know JWs and exJWs will know what I am talking about. But I think it is a nasty habit, and I personally try not to identify with the term.
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Mommy, I don't want to play blood count limbo anymore, it hurts
by zengalileo indear mommy,.
having cancer hurts.
mommy i dont like the new doctor.
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zengalileo
In this version, one has to actually push an imaginary button to decide to make their daughter suffer more. I wonder how many JWs, if it were set up that way in real life, would actually push a button labeled "MAKE YOUR DAUGHTER SUFFER MORE NOW BY PUSHING THIS BUTTON." It sort of changes things when there is a button or lever that is labeled very clearly, and only by pushing it or pulling the lever will you make your daughter, not just die, but... SUFFER.... SUFFOCATE.... CRY OUT IN PAIN... SCREAM. If people starving of blood were able to scream and shriek while they are suffocating, and all their organs are shutting down because they don't have enough oxygen, including the brain, which actually may be creating a dizzy, confused paranoia due to lack of oxygen.... What does it feel like to die of blood starvation? It's like a slow suffocation. A person literally suffocates to death. Also there is extreme thirst. A little like being in hell and asking God for just a drop of water... But, Mommy, who is playing God, says, "No child, God wants you to be this thirsty and gasping for breath. If you just suffer long enough, Jehovah will be happy with you. But only if you maintain.
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Mommy, I don't want to play blood count limbo anymore, it hurts
by zengalileo indear mommy,.
having cancer hurts.
mommy i dont like the new doctor.
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zengalileo
A new version of the Dear Mommy story:
“Mommy, Have I Suffered Enough For Jehovah Yet?”
(“Mommy, I don’t want to play Blood Count Limbo anymore.”)
Dear Mommy,
Having cancer hurts. I hurt all the time. It used to be better, in the beginning. I could breathe then. But then the doctor started talking about numbers. Do you remember that Mommy? I remember I was a 12.5. Then I was a 10. Then I was a 7.5 and I couldn’t breathe the same anymore. I would take a deep breath, but it just wasn’t the same as before. I felt like I was breathing but I wasn’t getting any air. My stomach would go up and down, and I just wanted more air all the time. That’s when it really started to hurt, Mommy. Does Jehovah want me to hurt like this Momma? If I don’t hurt anymore, will He still let me into the New System?
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At this point in the story, pretnd you are the mother of this child. If you want to relieve your little girl of pain, allow her to breathe again and save her life, simply press the GIVE HER THE BLOOD TRANSFUSION NOW button here (*) and stop reading the article, knowing it is a happy ending for your daughter; she has been saved, and she still will make it into the paradise with no negative spiritual consequences to you or her, in God’s eyes, and the congregation will not disfellowship either of you.
If you do not want to give her the blood tranfusion now, press the REFUSE BLOOD TRANSFUSIONbutton (#) and make your daughter suffer more and longer, and read on.
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(The story continues…)
That’s when you and the doctor started playing Limbo. I want to tell you Mommy, I don’t like it when you play Limbo with my air. The doctor said that if I got to 6 he would give me a blood transfusion and I would be able to breathe again. For a second I was happy, cuz I really wanted to breathe again. But then I remembered Jehovah doesn’t like people who take blood transfusions. So I got sad again.
The doctor started threatening to get a court order to transfuse. And I was happy, cuz then I could breathe but it wouldn’t be my fault or my Mommy’s fault. Jehovah would just be mad at the judge and the doctor then. But mommy, remember? You said, “Well he seems fine. (I felt terrible) Let’s see if he can go a little lower.” And I remember the doctor said my number was a six. Then it was a 5 and I thought for sure you would give in. I was gasping for breath and I felt woozy all over. But you said, “No doctor. It’s not time yet. Let’s see if he can go any lower. He seems fine.” Mommy, why are you torturing me? It hurts when you play the Limbo game, mommy.
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Your daughter’s blood count is now a 6. If you want to relieve your little girl of pain, allow her to breathe again and save her life, simply press the GIVE HER THE BLOOD TRANSFUSION NOW button here (*) and stop reading the article, knowing it is a happy ending for your daughter; she has been saved, and she still will make it into the paradise with no negative spiritual consequences to you or her, in God’s eyes, and the congregation will not disfellowship either of you.
If you do not want to give her the blood tranfusion now, press the REFUSE BLOOD TRANSFUSIONbutton (#) and make your daughter suffer more and longer, and read on.
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(The story continues…)
I wanted to tell you mommy, why couldn’t we let the doctor give me blood when I was a number 6? Now I am a number 3 and you keep telling the doctor you will sue, or take me to some other hospital if he tries to give me blood. Mommy, isn’t Jehovah happy I have suffered as long as I have? Mommy, I’m not sure I want to live anymore. I want to see you and daddy still, but won’t I be happiuer in the New System anyway? Mommy, I want to die. I can’t breathe and everything hurts.
2.5. Am I winning at Limbo now Mom? Mo.. mommy.. (cough) It’s really har.. hard to th.. think now. Mm. I can’t .. I want my l… last word to be.. Je…(gasp) ho.. vah. He must be happy with me now that I’ve made it all the way down to 2.5. But the new doctor, Dr. Malak, came in smiling and happy today, saying, “Don’t worry, I had a patient go all the way down to 1.5. We just put him in a chemically induced coma and eventually he came back. He is alive today, with only minor neurological damage.” Mommy, I am not sure what that means, but Mommy, I don’t like the new doctor. When will this game be over? When will I have suffered long enough to make Jehovah happy? Mommy, why is it so hard to make Jehovah happy? Is he happier when I am being tortured than when I feel good? Why does Jehovah love to see me suffer?
Mom.. jus.. one.. more thing.. I can’t think straight and they are going to put me in one of those comas. But I don’t know.. maybe the next time I see you it will be the N.. New Sys….Sist.. mmm. I just want to tell you one more thing.. before they put me under.. Mommy don’t do this to Jack, my little bro.. If he needs a blood transfusion just give it to hi…. (gasp) him. I think Jehovah wants Jack to not suffer. I don’t like suffering. And I hate it when you play the “How low can he go?” game. I hope I suffered enough to make Jehovah happy.. Goo.. G’ bye M… Mom………………………….
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I guess I am no more a girlfriend in dilemma
by DilemmaGF ini think my boyfriend just dumped for jw.
he is an inactive jw, he was the the one who started tp pursue the relationship and now he kind of shunning me.
i don't why, maybe because he sensed that i am trying to tell him a lot about the true jesus and because he felt like he can't convert me, but that's okay, i understand.
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zengalileo
Yup. Been there. My fiance' in fact dumped me cuz the elders told her I was bad association. She knew I was an inactive JW from day one. She still went for it. Dragged me back into the borg. Then it all fell apart when I just couldn't take going to the meetings. It was painful to me like sitting through the looped recorded menu for Direct TV over and over.
Then i had it happen to me twice by Mormons. I guess I really liked the fresh faced look of cult members. but cults have what is known as TEMPLE PROSTITUTES. These prostitutes purposely target non believers knowing ahead of time that they will eventually slap them with an ultimatum that they must convert or else it's over. It's really sick. But common.
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What was the first thing you did...
by OneDayillBeFree inwhen you left the man-made organization currently known as the wtbts??.
and for those still "in" but mentally "out" what have you started doing thats against the silly, stupid and non-scriptural watchtower policy/law/rule??.
i know the question has been made before on another thread but i couldn't find it and also there's been quite some growth in new ones here to jwn, so just wanted to see if we could all share some lovely/funny/random experiences.
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zengalileo
The first thing I did was get laid, being a virgin up to that point. But giving blood was one thing I did soon after leaving.
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Just saw an elderly JW man...
by zengalileo inhe was walking with such a slump, dragging his feet, carrying a jacket, magazines barely visible just hanging from his fingertips.
if body language has any validity to it, this man was deeply discouraged and depressed.
i remember that slump too.
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zengalileo
3rdgen says, "We have been phsycally out a couple of yrs beginning
with illness and depression. However, we have been mentally out only a couple of weeks. This site did the trick because of threads and posters like this . NOTHING like the evil apostates portrayed by t
the WTS. Stay kind and loving you Never know what doubts or discouragement may be hiding under the surface. We NEVER shared ours with anyone-especially our child. (didn't want todiscourage)"
One thing I keep getting reminded by Randy is to "be kind, be loving, show grace, be mild..." It's a mantra for him. Since I have left the JWs anger has been a feature of my personality and it hasn't helped me or anyone else. I have been doing much better the past two years or so but I still get reminded by my spiritual mentors and helpful people on this forum to continue striving to be the kind person who gently helps people leave in their own time. I get frustrated often by people who I think should just leave and be done with it. But posts like this from 3rdgen takes me back to the fact that Jesus was known to be tender and mild. I thank Jesus for taking a large bit of my anger away a year and a half ago, but my JW roots are deep and my tendency to be judgmental remains at the level of a real problem. I ask to be further healed of this and that any lurkers out there will keep seeing the kinder side of JWN and all ex-JWs.
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News: Tamara Coakley's life saved by cow's blood
by AndersonsInfo inrevolutionary 'blood' saves womanhttp://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/revolutionary-blood-hboc-201-saves-tamara-coakley/story-e6frf7jo-1226050068016.
herald sun - lucie van den berg - 3 hours agoa last-ditch effort to save mrs coakley's life led to 10 units of the haemoglobin-based oxygen carrier, called hboc-201 to be flown in from the us.
picture: craig borrow source: herald sun the alfred hospital trauma service director dr mark fitzgerald .... congratulations on a medical miraclehttp://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/editorials/congratulations-on-a-medical-miracle/story-e6frfhqo-1226050128973.
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zengalileo
This is now on AJWRB. I'm sorry I didn't put it up sooner. But I have to say that Tamara Coakley should be the poster child for AJWRB now. She is EXACTLY who we are talking about when we say that Jehovah's Witnesses accept blood transfusions. Period. No asterisk needed to explain further either. Just simply, JWs take blood transfusions. They are no different from any other person on earth in this regards. While some orthodox, fundamentalist, extremist JWs may still not accept certain blood products, all the Tamara Coakleys of the Jehovah's Witness religion certainly have no problem taking blood transfusions. She is even so proud to have done it that she agreed to be interviewed and photographed over this. That is why the AJWRB link to her story reads, "JWs PROUDLY accept cow blood transfusions." She, in fact, is on the next printing of the soon to be mailed AJWRB brochure, and an article about it will be bundles with the next Free Minds Journal. Let me know if you want a copy of it. Either we will make it available as a download or maybe mail it to you if it isn't too expensive. We may not have it up too long though, because of copyright issues. I've asked the Herald Sun for permission already and am waiting for their response. But I have to say that Tamara makes a great cover girl for the brochure. The picture with her with her horse is the one we are using.
Zen
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Anybody frequent noblood.org?
by zengalileo ini want to encopurage all jwners to go onto the noblood.org forums and participate freely.
it is one of the more disgusting jw forums on the web.
they are trying to say that it is not a jw owned and operated website, but everybody i've enteracted with via telephone calls, emails and forum exchanges is a jw.
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zengalileo
If you google Jan B. Wade by the way, you can find him listed as an employee at a janitorial supplies company in Washington. No he never did mention that in our conversations, so you are right Marvin, he would never tell you that. But just look him up and you will find as I did, that is his day job. He also says he is a "great reader," and he has read lots of books on medicine and "that is why he is qualified to be a medical professional." So I guess if you read a book on brain surgery then you can go ahead and take a whack at that. But isn't that the way JWs think after all? They shun worldly education. But on that note, let me say that when a person does not graduate from high school, that isn't necessarily a knock against their intelligence. Many smart people have never been to college or didn't graduate from high school. But those people don't get to have jobs giving medical advice either. No matter how smart they think they are.
It also tells something about a person's ability to complete tasks, especially tasks that require years of attention and concentration and work. Graduating from college didn't make me smart. But it did prove that I could set a goal that takes years to complete, and I can apply myself over a space of years to a single goal, and I can acconplish this. And it makes me hirable as a teacher. I AM a professional educator. It has been my job. I don't need to argue with anyone as to whether I am a professional educator. My pay check proves that. And it annoys me when people who aren't real educators claim to be educators without all the work I've put in my life. I can only imagine how doctors and nurses feel when the Jan B. Wades of the world go prancing around claiming to be medical professionals when they couldn't maintain their attention long enough to graduate high school.
Sorry Jan, but let's talk when you get a real college degree. Until then, why don't you crawl back into the back room at your janitorial supplies store and reorganize your Lemon Pledge.
Zen