Posts by JAVA

58

Living A Lie

by MoodyBlue in

jw
friends

i am sick of living a lie, yet afraid to change it.

married to a man who refuses to listen, who would rather plug his ears and shout "nooooooo" is taking it's tole.

i am afraid to speak my mind about my doubt, my thoughts, and what i'm learning, as i'm not ready to cross that point of no return.

I don't have all the answers, but I'm good at guessing. You're at a place many on this board have been through--it's not easy! The "what ifs" can drive you crazy, if you let them. Life is full of "what ifs" and folks or groups handle it in different ways.

The dates 1914, 1918, 1925, and 1975 never suffered from the "what ifs" because "new light" allows the Society to "tack in the wind" when they blew it. The Society denies "what ifs", covers them up, and continues on with "new light." Some folks become paralyzed with "what ifs" and remain stalled until another makes decisions for them. Others realize "what ifs" happen, make decisions based on the information they know, and go from there.

Life goes on no matter how we work with the "what ifs" around us. However, doing nothing usually means others will decide for you. There are times in life when that's necessary. Sometimes we are at a place physically or mentally that requires others to act in our best interest, but that's the exception and not the rule.

The decisions we made yesterday might not be the decisions we make today--that's normal. We grow, we learn new things, etc. I was amazed how smart my parents became when I got older. Little is accomplished when we beat ourselves up about decisions made when we were at another place in life. They worked then, they might not work for us today.

The so-called world usually offers what we put into it. I can't say what life would be like without your husband, and only you can say what life is like with him. You're at a crossroads many others have experienced. I know about that intersection--it's not easy. I can't offer you my road map because our goals and journey are different.

These rambling thoughts are only thoughts, not suggestions. This I can say--you found a group of caring people on this board who understand where you're at, and know you can make it through the "what ifs" that can make life interesting.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

34

No longer associated with this group

by yeldell2 in

jw
friends

i had no idea you were ex-witnesses when i registered here.

continue to send me e-mail anyone from this group.

steps to contact the administrator of this site, with this information.

JAVA

Gozz & others:

JAVA, I understand that's not your way, so please do take all in good faith. . . . It'll be good to keep everything within limits, so that some would not be distracted from the real issues at hand.

Good points, and I appreciate your thoughts on the topic. I'm not interested in turning this db into name calling or seeing who can trade the best/worst insults. I've been on groups that do that, and that's not what I'm interested in either. However (leave it to me to always insert a "however"), as former Witnesses we do not need to take insults and/or threats (and that's what we got) because we are not members of the Tower's club. I'm sorry my description (i.e., farts) of the Tower's leadership offended some here, but when someone craps on you, and then says you stink (IMO, that's what happened here) I'm not going to take it. We are not bad/evil/slime/worshipers of Satan because we left the Tower. We do not need to roll over and play dead when someone insults and threatens because of our beliefs. Yeldell2 was treated with respect and kindness, but she didn't return the favor--why; because many posters are no longer JWs. The Society has a history of looking good to outsiders, while treating former members like non-humans. Of course many followers of the Tower mimic the example they see. When that happens I pull the mask off and expose abuse for what it is. Concerning the term that I used:

I work at a medical college (no, I'm not a doctor) and want to share my understanding of the word "fart." We call fart/s "flatus" in the medical community; I guess it sounds better. Flatus is gas expelled from an orifice; it does not denote color, age or weight. I'll leave now before getting into more trouble.

JAVA, counting time with the group at the Coffee Shop

34

No longer associated with this group

by yeldell2 in

jw
friends

i had no idea you were ex-witnesses when i registered here.

continue to send me e-mail anyone from this group.

steps to contact the administrator of this site, with this information.

JAVA

yeldell2:

I am being harrassed because I have made my intentions known. You have enough to do among yourselves.

What a JOKE and crock of BALONEY! Members of this group care less if you cry to AOL or to the farts you serve in Brooklyn. Here's a newsflash yeldell2, just because folks disagree with you--THAT'S NOT HARRASSMENT! Just because you can't defend the Tower's lunacy, and the swill they call "food in due season," THAT'S NOT HARRASSMENT!

If you want harrassment, please seek out the elders in your congregation--the Tower has trained them well. If you're ready to post something intelligent, try harder next time. If you can't do that, keep your brain turned off and enjoy Brooklyn's Land of Oz.

Lord . . . forced blindness is hard to forgive!

JAVA, counting time with the group at the Coffee Shop

29

The Great Love of Your Life

by waiting in

jw
friends

the following quote is by farkel from h20, explaining the slow changes in rick, who is forum director?

farkel: http://www.cyberpass.net/~h2o/wwwboard/hourglass2board.frames.alt.html.

posted by farkel [keflar] on january 09, 2001 at 07:47:38 {bwzcy8br/qtkpaniraaivhkqcjatlo}:.

JAVA

amicus:

That fits me quite well, but I hadn't realized it until now.

That has happened to me so many times . . . while reading a book, hearing a poem, seeing a post, etc. All of a sudden something jumps out that expresses a deep feeling. Language is a clumsy way of communicating thoughts and feelings, but every once in awhile something comes along that nails a lingering sentiment.

On the topic of truth, I appreciate this quote from Rene Descartes:

"If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things."

29

The Great Love of Your Life

by waiting in

jw
friends

the following quote is by farkel from h20, explaining the slow changes in rick, who is forum director?

farkel: http://www.cyberpass.net/~h2o/wwwboard/hourglass2board.frames.alt.html.

posted by farkel [keflar] on january 09, 2001 at 07:47:38 {bwzcy8br/qtkpaniraaivhkqcjatlo}:.

JAVA

Frenchy:

These have been convinced that there is a truth and having been so close to it makes them want it even more. It was a notion so deeply ingrained in a heart yearning so much for it that it will not go away.

Good points; Saying, thinking, and believing "the Truth" mantra countless times as a Witness doesn't mean the concept disappears the hour we no longer see ourselves as JWs. Some might continue believing "the Truth" notion years after leaving; perhaps taking it to their graves.

By itself, there is nothing wrong believing "the Truth" is out there. It becomes dysfunctional when one believes they've found it, and condemns, criticizes, and shuns others who don't share the identical belief. Religiously speaking, "the Truth" cannot be proven; it still comes down to a belief system someone cooked up, and followers believe (sometimes by force).

It's a societal norm for most of us to believe in God, and if that's true, He surely has a plan for doing something with us--otherwise, why are we here? Yet, if we grew up in part of the world that believes God lives in all people, all animals, and in everything else (like trees and rocks), then our spiritual quest for truth has a different twist. Instead of looking to answers from a higher power, this belief system sees God in all things. Seeing "the Truth" coming down from the mountain is a foreign concept to them, as their concept of truth is foreign to us. Thus the question, what is truth?

The idea of finding religious truth reminds me of the saying, "Look out what you pray for; you might get it." I found "the Truth" for many years--God help the next one who finds it.

29

The Great Love of Your Life

by waiting in

jw
friends

the following quote is by farkel from h20, explaining the slow changes in rick, who is forum director?

farkel: http://www.cyberpass.net/~h2o/wwwboard/hourglass2board.frames.alt.html.

posted by farkel [keflar] on january 09, 2001 at 07:47:38 {bwzcy8br/qtkpaniraaivhkqcjatlo}:.

JAVA

amicus:

I don't know if at some point in time while on this "quest", I'll leave and not come back here, but it's what led me here.

When I think about it, I view spiritual truth this way: "It's something that fills my spiritual void that values the question, while at the same time believes there are many possible answers or perhaps no answer at all." That works for me today, and I might change that definition before the week is through; if I do, that's okay. I guess I'll never be canonized with those words of wisdom. Maybe that's what led me here or other forums, I really don't know. I lean towards the idea of fellowship with folks who share similar experiences or history, more so than the quest of truth. However, my so-called definition could easily be why I'm here, too.

I seem to be drawn to people seeking the truth, but run like hell from anyone who claims they've found it.

Wendy:

We all can't deny the euphoria we got from being a JW. Theres nothng like knowing you are gonna live forever, there are people all over the world who love you just because of the name you carry

So true. When the lights came on, and I realized the Tower was only another high-control religion, I pondered the idea of not living forever for the first time. It was an adjustment to think about growing old and dying like everyone else. The JW euphoria can also lead to a deep valley when we face reality. The Internet is a godsend for today's "great crowd."

Edited by - JAVA on 10 January 2001 15:43:23

29

The Great Love of Your Life

by waiting in

jw
friends

the following quote is by farkel from h20, explaining the slow changes in rick, who is forum director?

farkel: http://www.cyberpass.net/~h2o/wwwboard/hourglass2board.frames.alt.html.

posted by farkel [keflar] on january 09, 2001 at 07:47:38 {bwzcy8br/qtkpaniraaivhkqcjatlo}:.

JAVA

amicus, trevor, and Dharma--it's nice having you on this forum.

Frenchy:

. I think Rick keeps H20 open for the same reason many of us here feel compelled to come back again and again. We are seeking the truth now just as much as we were when we first began our association with the WTBS. I think that we are still looking for what we were looking for then.

That's an interesting take on truth seekers. Perhaps I'm missing the point, but are you suggesting folks who post on H2O or forums like this are still seeking the truth or they wouldn't be there?

51

Do you still attend meetings?

by Sassenach in

jw
friends

i'm wondering if you still attend meetings?

do you hold out hope for the watchtower organization?

if you've left entirely, have you found another form of worship?

JAVA

TW,

Just a few thoughts before I go to the office. I think you need to do whatever it is that you need to do concerning your parents. Telling them your thoughts about the Tower WILL NOT "save them." Being totally honest with JW relatives only alienates; it doesn't help them see the light and leave. If it worked that way most of us wouldn't have JW relatives in the Tower.

Thinker is trying to take the high road with his encouragment of total honesty. That doesn't work in the Land of Oz. The Tower labels that type of honesty "apostate," thus severing all ties we have with families. High-control religions do not value HONESTY, they value CONTROL!

JAVA, counting time with the group at the Coffee Shop

51

Do you still attend meetings?

by Sassenach in

jw
friends

i'm wondering if you still attend meetings?

do you hold out hope for the watchtower organization?

if you've left entirely, have you found another form of worship?

JAVA

Hi waiting & Frenchy:

It's been years since I walked into a Kingdom Hall, but your comments about missing old friends made me think about the last time I met with a JW friend of many years. Our families vacationed together, we drove 320 miles one way to visit them when they moved out of state. Bill and I talked about everything, and I still miss him. However, the last time we visited I suggested some doubts about the Tower's 1914 generation and end-times prediction.

I could feel him withdraw before the words bounced off his closed ears. It was as if we had NOTHING in common within a second after years of friendship. I miss the person I used to know when I didn't know what I know today. That person is gone. The Eastern saying about "you can't step into the same river twice" is true when the bed of the river is the Watchtower, and you finally know "the truth."

40

Hey Simon

by Seven in

look!!

over 10,000 posts.. great place to meet and exchange ideas.

thanks for a job well done.. seven

JAVA

Oh no Simon, look what you've done:

I find this ridiculous rhetoric highly offensive.

TW is upset because of the female gif picture, and I don't blame her! I noticed the Chocolate Center, and Shopping section is too small, while the Sex segment is too large on the female brain you listed. As soon as larc gets finished meeting with the world leaders, he'll explain some of the other discrepancies science has discovered with the female brain illustration you posted.

It's okay TW, larc will clear things up when he returns from a meeting with the financial backers of our research. He can't say who they are, but I understand they have the cleanest windows in Brooklyn.

JAVA, counting time with the group at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 9 January 2001 20:51:17