Posts by JAVA

32

Books

by larc in

jw
friends

a good book,.

i was wondering if any of you have read a book "visions of glory" by barbara grizzutti harrison.

as far as i know, it is the only book written by a woman about the witness experience.

JAVA

larc,

I would love to have her in my home and be able to talk to her for hours.

Barbara was doing a book signing a few years ago (I believe somewhere in Chicago) and two ex-JWs from a email group I was on attended. They introduced themselves as ex-Witnesses, and she asked them to stay until the signing was over. They talked for about an hour afterwards, and enjoyed meeting her. They also inquired about a reprint of Visions of Glory and she said others ask about that too, but it's up to the publisher. The publisher is Simon and Schuster, if any are interested in letting them know. I'm sure they have a Web URL that could be used for contact.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 29 January 2001 7:54:8

6

A Time to Make Changes

by waiting in

jw
friends

thnx-thnx!!!plzreadthis!!

h20 post.

posted by seeker4 [seeker4] on january 27, 2001 at 18:02:08 {lkfel14mdsubi2tgjvegd9bhhxgwag}:.

JAVA

waiting:

Nice picture.

Thanks, I'm trying to keep up with TR, but instead of displaying a guitar, I'm unveiling gray hair.

If silence is maintained, we can be pretty confident that the status quo will be held to WTBTS standards.

Agreed, and I don't advocate silence either. In 1993 the Dayton Daily News featured a large series of articles on the Witnesses in Dayton, Ohio. I called the paper, and as a result, the readers were exposed to a side of the religion that focused on shunning and control. I hear it really ticked the JWs in this area off because it ruined the paradise masquerade they tried to present.

Web sites and groups like this talking openly about the JWs exposes the religion as a high-control sect making millions off followers forced into the streets. We should never remain silent about this! Put up a Web page, tell your neighbors, etc. However, don't wait for the national media to be overly concered about these issues--they're not. We live in a time when millions are added to the cyber community of the Internet weekly. This medium of information is hurting the Watchtower and sects like it because it's open to all without passing through editors interested in selling newspaper and air time, not necessarily news.

Silence should never be encouraged, but I've yet to see efforts directed towards the national media pay dividends. I get daily email from folks reading my little Web page, and groups like this have a HUGE impact on exposing the Tower. The national media is in the business of making money, and exposing the Watchtower doesn't pay their bills. However, I could be wrong . . . it happened once when I joined a high-control religion.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

6

A Time to Make Changes

by waiting in

jw
friends

thnx-thnx!!!plzreadthis!!

h20 post.

posted by seeker4 [seeker4] on january 27, 2001 at 18:02:08 {lkfel14mdsubi2tgjvegd9bhhxgwag}:.

JAVA

waiting:

Whatcha say? Worth getting involved in?

Like many others who post here, I've been around several ex-JW groups and Internet lists. I've seen well-meaning folks run with ideas similar to the one you posted, and I don't remember one that really got off the ground.

The national press in the USA is not that interested in the dissatisfaction of members or former members. Unless they can do a body count of followers committing suicide, it's not hard news and doesn't sell papers or air time. For sure, sometimes the local press might carry an article about a local member who makes the news, but that's about as far as it goes.

As Witnesses, we thought all governments, media, and religions were out to get us. As we now know, Jehovah's Witnesses are little more than an annoyance when they awaken people on Saturday mornings; they're just not that important. Testimonials of former Witnesses does little to stir the masses because the Witness religion is not nearly as important as the Witnesses think it is.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 28 January 2001 0:52:9

32

Books

by larc in

jw
friends

a good book,.

i was wondering if any of you have read a book "visions of glory" by barbara grizzutti harrison.

as far as i know, it is the only book written by a woman about the witness experience.

JAVA

RR:

Yeah, she claimed that Russell had a harem and that he died of syphillus ... that is so obsurd!

It's been several years since reading Visions of Glory, but I don't remember the syphilis charge. I know this is asking a lot, but do you know the page(s) where this accusation is found? Barbara Grizzuti Harrison is a gifted author, and I remember the book as an honest perspective about being a JW from a feminist point of view. Sadly, that's lacking compared to the popular books by Franz, Penton, and others. Female Witnesses outnumber males, but their voices are seldom heard in the popular press. Harrison's 1978 read came out long before the volumes of information that followed years later by some high-profile males.

The last paragraph on the book's jacket cover reads, "Visions of Glory is an extraordinary account of the rites of passage from girlhood to womanhoon, from disillusion to spiritual renewal--an intense, often hilarious, frequently moving autobiography by a gifted writer."

I couldn't agree more.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 27 January 2001 23:47:32

21

Mommy I want to marry you !!!!!

by Maxee in

jw
friends

hello mommy, let me get straight to the point here - (not like amicus who has been desperately trying in vain to sweet talk his way into sevens panties) - i think you are a living doll and i would like to marry you right now.

yes you can take this as a proposal.

i need to get some service in on you every month starting immediately.

JAVA

I need to get some service in on you every month starting immediately

I guess this is what happens when elders don't have enough sexual -sin committee meetings.

I suggest you go get a bar of soap and come back after washing your mouth out.

amicus, why would you do that to a good bar of soap?

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

15

WT Society Articles about Apostates

by Scorpion in

jw
friends

http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/wtabtsaaa/menu.html .

"we must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odiuos, filthy, to detest.

" wt 10/1/1952

JAVA

If every householder held the same possition about not reading anything printed by others concerning their religion, Watchtower propaganda would never leave the JW's book bag.

The term "apostate" is the abandonment of a former loyalty, like a Christian becoming an Atheist. Indeed, most exiting Witnesses are not loyal to the Watchtower Society, but many still consider themselves Christian. Apostate is rarely used when a member leaves one church to join another (e.g., a Baptist becoming a Methodist), or by folks who consider themselves Christian but don't attend church.

High-control sects label former members "apostate" in an effort to repress outside information, and to intimidate remaining followers. That's why the Watchtower fears the Internet because information is freely available, and users can access information without the knowledge of others.

Screaming "apostate" only identifies the Watchtower Society for what it really is; nothing more than another high-control sect trying to enslave its followers. That works until it doesn't work.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

9

Societal Stockholm Syndrome

by waiting in

jw
friends

hey y'all, http://web2.airmail.net/ktrig246/out_of_cave/sss.html.

societal stockholm syndrome.

the term, stockholm syndrome, was coined in the early 70's to describe the puzzling reactions of four bank employees to their captor.

JAVA

Waiting:

For thirds, she should run away with Java.

That sounds like an interesting plan, but I'm not sure how to talk my spouse into going along with it. Of course there is always Mormonism . . . I'm afraid ZaZu wouldn't buy into the idea of running off with me; she already knows what I look like, and I'm so poor I can't pay attention!

Getting back to larc's question, I'm fairly sure he was serious when asking about personal thoughts on improving gender relationships in light of the comments on the Stockholm Syndrome. My spouse teaches a course called, "Gender, and Families" 1 or 2 times a year to upper-level college students. It's an interesting field of study going way beyond the "Men are from Mars & Women are from Venus" self-help books. Larc has a Ph.D in a field of study that examines topics of this nature, I'm sure his tongue was not firmly planted in his cheek--at least this time.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

32

Resticted liberties "and justice for all&a...

by Smartgirlpw in

jw
friends

.. edited by - smartgirlpw on 23 january 2001 16:44:50

JAVA

TR:

Yes, I know you were not agreeing with the Tower’s policies on shunning. I’m sorry if it came out that way. Your post only caused me to think out loud, and ramble on about methods of punishment, and outcomes.

The Tower uses the one punishment for all perceived sins--shunning. The result is nothing more than mental abuse. As most of us know, it’s mostly done to control, not "to keep the congregation clean." In the United States, we can’t build prisons fast enough, and every politician puts more police on the streets (at a time when crime is down). The results are career criminals who hone illegal skills from other inmates. Obviously society and the churches within need protection from harm. However, simplistic answers, (i.e., shunning and the US prison system) has a history of near total failure, but we continue doing the same thing.

I too believe there should be consequences for our behavior. In the process, it’s a pity we don’t look beyond the "eye for an eye" punishment, and seek ways to empower people and fracture the spoken and unspoken class system that creates dysfunctional behavior. Again, I’m rambling because of the topic (i.e., punishment) not because I’m in agreement or disagreement with your comments. (My students also love it when I ramble--NOT!)

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

32

Resticted liberties "and justice for all&a...

by Smartgirlpw in

jw
friends

.. edited by - smartgirlpw on 23 january 2001 16:44:50

JAVA

TR & others:

If you were thrown out for continued immoral sexual behavior, I would agree with your getting your butt kicked.

I agree to a point; well, maybe not that much. You said, "bad decisions come back to bite" us, and I think that's typically true. Sometimes it's difficult to say when and how that happens, but unwise decisions can payback with undesired results. However, as a religious body or organization, who sets the guidelines to bestow punishment?

For example, most religions believe it's wrong to steal. Some people have had their hand cut off for stealing a loaf of bread when they were hungry. The state law and religious creed bestows the punishment, but most of us disagree with this discipline. That's an easy one, but let's say a person steals a loaf of bread from your store every day, not because of hunger, but because he likes to steal. Now we're dealing with a bread-stealing theft; anyone willing to chop off his hand? Who do we trust to confer appropriate discipline in a religious community? The matter of stealing must be dealt with, but what's appropriate, and how do we know?

Before dealing with "immoral sexual behavior," it first needs to be identified. The Society got into trouble several years ago with their oral sex decree. What about a married man who has an affair; how many times can he sleep with another woman before it's one too many? What about a married woman; are the rules different? What about a man and woman sleeping together who are not married? What about two men or women in a loving relationship, and sleeping together? What about . . . and the list continues. Should any of the above be put to death? Why do we believe "sins of the flesh" are more heinous than other societal acts that are out of the norm?

Religions putting members out into the street for (name your sin of choice) are signing a death warrant in many situations. Yes, each person is accountable for their actions, but does that relieve us of reacting in a manner that harms others? Maybe it does, and if so, who makes up the rules, and who acts as judge? Would we trust that system to judge a member of our family? Are elders or any religious hierarchy able to judge fairly given the dogma they accept on faith?

These are rambling thoughts that come to mind. I'm very uncomfortable with them, and hope my comfort level doesn't improve over time.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

32

Resticted liberties "and justice for all&a...

by Smartgirlpw in

jw
friends

.. edited by - smartgirlpw on 23 january 2001 16:44:50

JAVA

Did I pass "hazing" yet?

I'm not sure if you passed or not, but you sure added a spark to ex-JW frat house.

Concerning the new elder yearning for his first kill: His convoluted reasoning is nothing more than a smoke screen whereby letting himself off the moral hook from which he dangled. JWs who get stoned by elders and returns saying, "It's the best thing that ever happened to me" has learned how to kiss up to get reinstated. Of course the elders love this crap because it inflates their enlarged ego, while making a nice little sound bite for the next circuit assembly; again swelling the elder ego.

Glad you waited until the "new system" to have a family. Does your spouse have a history in the Tower? I married someone who taught religion in grade school, and she really messes with their minds when she teaches some of the same students in college!

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 22 January 2001 20:44:15