Posts by lovelylil2

75

Jonestown cult and the JWs

by jonathan dough in

jw
friends

anyone see the recent cnn special on jonestown?

it really bothered me, particularly when listening to the survivors talk about the amount of control exerted over them; they were afraid, terrified, couldn't just walk away, family members were snitching on each other, families were split up in the end, tugged out of arms, they were well dressed seemingly happy people who were clapping and cheering until you looked in their eyes.. the similarities with the jws isstaggering.

jones preached obedience, obedience, obedience.

lovelylil2

Jeff, I agree with your last statments.

I wonder if the government would react differently to the WT blood ban if they had real numbers to show just how many die each year because of it? Lil

75

Jonestown cult and the JWs

by jonathan dough in

jw
friends

anyone see the recent cnn special on jonestown?

it really bothered me, particularly when listening to the survivors talk about the amount of control exerted over them; they were afraid, terrified, couldn't just walk away, family members were snitching on each other, families were split up in the end, tugged out of arms, they were well dressed seemingly happy people who were clapping and cheering until you looked in their eyes.. the similarities with the jws isstaggering.

jones preached obedience, obedience, obedience.

lovelylil2

Jeff,

What is happening with the no blood ban is that JW's are in fact committing mass suicide in the name of their religion, just like Jonestown. They are just doing it one at a time instead of collectively that is all. And they are in such a mental stupor due to their beliefs (drunk on wine, if you will) not realizing this is in fact what they ARE doing until it is too late.

For some reason, I am reminded of the boiling a frog slowly illustration. This is my opinion anyway. Lilly

75

Jonestown cult and the JWs

by jonathan dough in

jw
friends

anyone see the recent cnn special on jonestown?

it really bothered me, particularly when listening to the survivors talk about the amount of control exerted over them; they were afraid, terrified, couldn't just walk away, family members were snitching on each other, families were split up in the end, tugged out of arms, they were well dressed seemingly happy people who were clapping and cheering until you looked in their eyes.. the similarities with the jws isstaggering.

jones preached obedience, obedience, obedience.

lovelylil2

How can JW's NOT be a threat to the world???

Thousands die due to no blood transfusions

The suicide rate is astronomical

The only thing keeping them from actually killing us all off is that we have "worldly" laws, they HATE non witnesses so much they WISH they could kill us but cannot and that is why they SHUN us AS THOUGH we ARE dead!

They are a death cult and one of the largest HATE groups of All TIME! Are you kidding me with this "they are not a threat to the world" WHAT WORLD are YOU living in.

Glad to get that off my chest, now peace Lilly

19

In your experience how many DFd return to the WTS?

by teel in

from the 11/15/09 wt study article: "it is heartwarming to know that a large number of such ones [disfellowshipped ones] later return to jehovah and his congregation...".

this is a typical cult phrase, where they use a generic unverifiable statement to prove a point.

so, since we're not likely to get an official answer from the wt, how many of the dfd ones in your vicinity has actually been reinstated?.

lovelylil2

In the past 10 years we have had at least 40 people, including 5 entire families from the local kingdom hall, including 4 in my family, leave and never go back. Most of us keep in touch with each other and have no plans on ever returning to this cult.

I like to think I had a small hand in this, I sent my DA letter exposing the WT false teachings and reason my family was leaving to the two halls closest to my home. Both of which we attended. I've personally had 10 people tell me my letter helped them to finally fully open their eyes to the hypocracy of the WT.

One of the khs was recently sold and 2 congregations were combined. The other hall does have a large number of new people but I am not sure if they moved into this area or if that hall also combined with another. But my hubby and I are seeing more people in service and the faces are not known to us at all.

Interestingly, two "brothers" came to my door a week ago and offered me the Tower, I accepted of course. They had never met me and have no idea I am apostate. I am hoping they return so I can give them a real witness. My taking the WT was to open a door for them. I told them I have Witnesses in my family, which is "technically" true. I didn't tell them that they all are Da'd Witnesses. I am getting scriptures ready for them IF they return.

Lilly

75

Jonestown cult and the JWs

by jonathan dough in

jw
friends

anyone see the recent cnn special on jonestown?

it really bothered me, particularly when listening to the survivors talk about the amount of control exerted over them; they were afraid, terrified, couldn't just walk away, family members were snitching on each other, families were split up in the end, tugged out of arms, they were well dressed seemingly happy people who were clapping and cheering until you looked in their eyes.. the similarities with the jws isstaggering.

jones preached obedience, obedience, obedience.

lovelylil2

These figures do NOT even include all the people who died due to the WT older organ transplant ban;

Estimates of maternal death rates among pregnant women:

We have found two reports to date: one from the U.S. and the other from the UK:

Dr. Carl J. Saphier led a study at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, NY, of the maternal death rate among Jehovah's Witnesses. The report indicates a death rate of 521 deaths per 100,000 live births--a rate nearly 44 times higher than that among the general US population. The precision of that number is in doubt because it was based on only two deaths. Sr. Saphier said "The findings imply that special care is required for women who are Jehovah's Witnesses, including special counseling prior to delivery, methods of minimizing the blood loss at delivery, and fast treatment for any hemorrhage." 4
A 2004-SEP UK report, the Confidential Enquiry into Maternal Deaths (CEMD) stated that:

"... the very high risk of mortality in women who refuse blood transfusion was highlighted. 11 The death rate in this group was 1 per 1,000 maternities compared with an expected incidence of less than 1 per 100,000 maternities. 12

Computing the average of these two reports, the maternal death rate:

among those refusing blood transfusions is about 310 per 100.000 births.
among the general population is about 6 per 100,000 births.
is about 70 times greater for those who refuse blood transfusions.

Marvin Shilmer posted the following calculation to the Jehovahs-Witness.com discussion forum:

"Assuming an annual birth rate of 20 per 1,000, and based on the Watchtower organization's annual statistics, over the period of 1995 through 2006 there were at least 1,455,000 births among Jehovah's Witnesses. Assuming these women presented themselves as refusing blood, this translates into 1,455 deaths during this period." 12

If all had accepted transfusions when needed, only 21 might have died. The Jehovah's Witness' policy on blood transfusions thus cause on the order of 10 preventable deaths a month, 120 a year, within their organization.

The Watchtower is continueing to be responsible for many deaths each day. They have already surpassed Jonestown in number of deaths.

What I find so hypocritical is how they make the rank and file "blood guilty" by not bringing in converts by they are the ones with REAL BLOOD of thousands upon their hands and yet they don't seem to care. The Watchtower is a pure, evil cult,one of the worst of all history. Jonestown pales in comparison to this death cult. Lilly

16

JW Discussion Board Lifts Another Story from Another Religion

by blondie in

jw
friends

http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/3956/html/rss/.

several years ago a rabbi from out-of-state accepted a call to a community in houston, texas.

some weeks after he arrived he had an occasion to ride the bus from his home to the downtown area.

lovelylil2

Yeah right because when you are looking for a place to worship the ONE thing you want to make sure of is that the members will not steal a quarter from you!! Now THAT is the mark of the true religion.

Since I am not that petty to count small change, I would have kept the quarter and have been blood guilty for the rest of my life for not converting the bus driver, is that it? How stupid.

These stories are told all over the world in every faith. They are obviously to remind us that someone (GOD) is always watching us at all times so we better walk the line and be perfect in all our ways. These stories are a man made invention! Peace, Lilly

25

Ex Wife(JW) Wants to pull my 8 year old out of school and homeschool

by LowTech in

jw
friends

so i got a call from my ex tonight and she wants to pull my daughter out of school and home-school her.

she thinks that the schools are getting so bad(in a small town of 15,000...?).

my daughter loves school she doing great in school.

lovelylil2

one more thing;

It was only the one year I homeschooled my daughter. She was in 5th grade at that time. She went right back into regular school the next year and was able to go on to 6th grade. btw; the school may test your daughter before allowing her to return to regular school and she must pass to go to next grade. My daughter was able to pass. She is now in 11th grade and looking at colleges. She is doing well! Lilly

25

Ex Wife(JW) Wants to pull my 8 year old out of school and homeschool

by LowTech in

jw
friends

so i got a call from my ex tonight and she wants to pull my daughter out of school and home-school her.

she thinks that the schools are getting so bad(in a small town of 15,000...?).

my daughter loves school she doing great in school.

lovelylil2

I home schooled my daughter for one year when I was a witness. It was because she was very sick for a few years before that and needed extra one on one help to catch up with work missed, especially in math. Also, unlike her brother, she was having real emotional problems due to being brought up in the WT Cult. She had social anxiety problems for a while before I took her out of school for that year. And it was actually her pediatrician who suggested it.

I have a degree in business and was able to come up with a good education plan. My town wanted me to apply to the school superintendent and show her the plan I would follow (everything had to be in writing) and the plan had to meet certain criteria for her grade level. I also had to submit my educational background and experiences and explain how I thought I could carry out such an undertaking. I think my town is stricter than others. It worked out well for us because I was able to help her catch up 2 grades in math and the mental break was good for her. Thankfully by the end of that school year we decided to leave the Watchtower anyway. I am glad I did homeschool her.

But it is a very BIG commitment. That is if you want to make sure that your child is going to be educated properly. Sadly with the witnesses, many of the JW moms just took the kids out of school to pioneer and make it easy on them as some people already pointed out. Also, thier kids were very isolated and in the house too much. All the other JW kids were in school during the day. For my daughter this was not a problem because she was and still is a loner in a lot of ways. She has lots of social opportunities now but still enjoys some alone time during the day. But if it were my son who is very sociable and needs to be in constant contact with people, homeschooling would have been like jail for him. You really need to know your child and their personality well to do this.

So, there are many factors to take into consideration such as; what type of educational materials will be used and does it meet the proper requirements in your state and town?, what about social opportunities for your daughter? also can you ex really take on this huge undertaking? And is this the right decision for your daughter or is it just a way to make things easier on your wife?

You may need a court appointed mediator to help you iron out all the details with your wife. You have a right to ask q's about this. Also, MOST IMPORTANTLY - have you asked your daughter if SHE wants to do this?

Wish you the best, Lilly

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

lovelylil2

AGuest,

Thank you for that information. I need time to digest it but appreciate it.

Robyn,

Many opologies to you.........I misunderstood what your were saying. I agree with you. Lilly

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

lovelylil2

Jonathan,

We are both in agreement that some natural Jews will still be brought into the convenant with Jesus as per Romans 11 and that this will not happen on the basis of the old covenant. Sorry I did not make myself clear on that.

What I mean by you cannot tell religious practicing Jews they are not in the Mosaic law convenant with God is that as a nation they never accepted the Covenant of Grace so to them they feel they are still under the law. While you certainly can tell them in words the law convenant is obsolete, they still will not accept it. To accept it, they need to accept Christ as thier messiah. Since they do not, the only convenant that exists "in their minds" is that of Moses. Again, I am speaking of religous practicing jews only, not secular ones.

Hope this clears that up. Lilly