Posts by Awen

31

So which makes more sense? Sex or no sex in the "new system"?

by stillstuckcruz in

obviously jah wouldn't allow for millions of pregnancies in the new system for fear of the same problem today of overpopulation.

so would he throw in sex but not allow for the women to become pregnant?

or would there be just no sex at all?

Awen

There is an alternative here that no one has addressed.

There are many other galaxies and planets in those galaxies so why would it not be possible for God to move a portion of the human population to another planet and simply start again?

It was God's original purpose for humankind to fill the earth and subdue it. What comes afterwards is never mentioned. It does seem cruel to create humans with an emotional capacity for love and sexual attractiveness to each other and then take it away.

As for the scripture about "them being like the angels in heaven", in my opinion Jesus is talking about the ones with a heavenly calling. Despite the fact that the ones Jesus were talking to didn't believe in a heavenly resirrection seems irrelevant. They also didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah. jesus told them "you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God, you are very much mistaken." So the implication here is that despite what they thought they knew, the realization was very different.

I disagree with the notion of man being created soley in God's image. God is a spirit. Being made in God's image seems to be more like a commentary on mental awareness and emotions and not so much a physical one.

However there is this:

Genesis 1:27 " 27

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."

The scripture says that both male and female were created in God's image. So it either means God has both male and female genitalia (which seems odd considering God is a spirit) or it's has to do with mental capacity. However it seems likely that God could be both male and female. A hermaphrodite, since these ones do exist on earth.

Consider also the different plant life, flowers and such certain colors and emotions which are labeled uniquely feminine by our human society. Of course that may be because humans tend to group things into categories and separate ourselves from one another by those categories. Since God created females, it stands to reason that God also contains the same exact qualities as women, for if God doesn't then where did the emotional aspects of women (being more in touch with their feelings than males and having a more nurturing predisposition when it comes to children tham men) come from?

Consider also that Jesus is called "the firstborn of all creation".

Colossians 1:15 -19 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19F or God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. "

Notice that Jesus is called the first born and not the first created. So the implication is that God gave birth to Jesus and didn't merely create him in the same way Adam was created. Jesus is literally made from God in the most strictest sense, the same way children are made from their own parents genetic material.

God being referred to in the masculine sense seems to be merely a product of the culture that Moses was living in when he wrote the Torah. Moses' society in which he lived was already patriarchal before the advent of the Law and so God simply referred to himself/herself in a way that already fit the model that was already in place. For God to refer to himself/herself as both sexes would likely cause divisions and confusion, for there might be some who would question the validity of the "headship" principal for this reason. So God picked a patriarchal way of referring to himself not only because Adam was created first, but because of the society already in existence. But all this is basically irrelevant as Jesus and the Bible in many places says God is a spirit, having no flesh and bones and hence no sexual organs. One could therefore surmise that God is both sexes in a mental capacity since God is the originator of all knowledge and emotional states that we humans find ourselves endowed with.

86

Are you a fader, Df'd, DA'd, or Still In?

by brotherdan in

i thought this would be an interesting poll that would show everyone the backgrounds of all of us when we left, if we have.. for myself, i am not df'd, but i am attempting a fade.

i still go to some meetings with the wife to help with kids, but that's it.

no commenting or field service.. what about everyone else?.

Awen

I was Dfed in 1998 for allowing an unmarried couple (non-JW's) to stay in my home. They had been homeless and I took pity on them.

The elders demanded that I throw them out before I was corrupted. My landlord stepped in and said I couldn't throw them out (as he was related to them) and so I found myself in a bind. I had no intention of throwing them out, but I told the elders what my landlord said and they replied that I needed to find another place to stay, which was difficult for me as I had already paid my monthly rent and wouldn't be paid for another week. They gave me 7 days to make my decision and when I told them I didn't have the money to move and I thought it was wrong to throw two people out of my home, they DFed me.

I have often entertained the idea of going back. Not to be reinstated, that means nothing to me. But to help the DFed ones who are treated so badly. Also by trying to convince certain ones that they do not need to follow the GB, but to put their faith in Christ.

I fully expect the organization to fall in the next few years. I can't explain it, I just feel strongly it will happen and many JW's will be lost.

I don't consider myself a guide of any kind, but rather a signpost, pointing the way that people should go. I feel this is what God wants me to do and I understand I will be persecuted for my efforts. I accept that fact and the price I will have to pay for my efforts.

This will be my form of witnessing, ministering to others who are lost or confused.

29

Considered rebellious because I choose to think for myself

by LovelyEunie in

jw
friends

hi all, this is my first post.

but i was one of those kids that was born into the whole jw thing, and like a good little witness kid i did everything i was supposed to do to please my parents (mainly my mom my dad's an unbeliever).

my mom was very strict with me when it came to everything they taught, no holiday parttys at school, no sports, no worldy friends, i was only supposed to associate with other jw kids (my mom is one of those extremist jws, she says she doesn't judge, but she's a perfect example of one one of those sisters with the holier than thou attitude).

Awen

I'm rebellious, in the same way Jesus was towards the religious leaders of his time.

I take great joy in visiting my local kingdom hall and giving the elders a hard time. Speaking to DFed people, not leaving when the song and prayer is finished. Most fun I've had in all my years as a JW.

32

Questions to ask from Bible Teach Ch 8

by InterestedOne in

i'm going to my jw "bible" study tonight.

we are on chapter 8 and will pick up at par 15. any suggestions for questions to ask?.

Awen

Those were some interesting links. Although I disagree with JCanon's assertations of the Bible Chronology (not to mention his claim of being the messiah which is mentioned in his profile), he did have an interesting point about the Borg being God's organization because they are false prophets, a belief I've held for quite some time. Like Israel of old who fell into apostasy, I could see his points about the "wheat and weeds" parable and how much sense it made. Although I've often thought of the WTS as being the "False Prophet" mentioned in Revelation, I never thought to think they could also be the dragon with two horns like a lamb, which makes sense to me.

Don't think for a second I'm endorsing this guy in any way, shape or form, I just thought his ideas about the WTS were interesting and that they are indeed God's Organization,(which I've believed for some time), not because they preach truth, but because they teach false doctrine, just as the Bible said the "man of lawlessness" would.

Quite interesting.

16

seperating anger for WT from my mom

by dogisgod in

jw
friends

i posted this earlier under the bitterness post.

how do i seperate the anger i have being raised in the borg from my mother who forced it down my throat even after i left.

she justwouldn't leave it alone.

Awen

So my point was that I agree with the above posters. You must move past this. She had her reasons and the defining one was that she was deceived by a mind-controlling cult. Many people have been done in by the WTS. So if you want to assign blame, assign it to the Governing Body.

It is they who are ultimately responsible for the person your mother became. To be sure we all have free will and can listen or ignore what others say, but the GB is very good at what they do when it comes to coercing people to bend to their will.

My advice, then is to forgive your mother. Assign blame where it rightly belongs, on the shoulders of the WTS.

16

seperating anger for WT from my mom

by dogisgod in

jw
friends

i posted this earlier under the bitterness post.

how do i seperate the anger i have being raised in the borg from my mother who forced it down my throat even after i left.

she justwouldn't leave it alone.

Awen

While I wasn't raised a JW I still understand abuse. My mom was very abusive of me while I was growing up, both physically and mentally. She was one of those types who blamed me for being molested at the hands of my uncle or rather she blamed me for the rift that occurred in our family when I told her what happened. If I had just kept quiet she would still have had her relationship with her father, which I was to find out wasn't true at all. She has many deep seated resentments already in place towards her dad before I was even born. This was just one nail amongst many in that particular coffin.

So to my point.

It has taken me 35 years to come to grips with who she is. She herself is a victim of abuse at her mother's hands and trying to deal with the issue of being born out of wedlock (my grandfather never married my mom's mother) and then leaving her for another woman which he married two years later and had three children. Of course he had done this before. I think my Grandfather has something like 13 kids all together with my mom being the only one out of wedlock, a very big deal in the 1950's. My mom isn't perfect, she's very controlling and wants things her way and when she gets it, she still isn't happy. She's never let go of her anger towards her father and has never been able to really confront him about it. He just says "the past is the past and it cannot be undone" and course that's not good enough for her. She wants some sort of revenge, but seems unclear about exactly what she wants. My grandad cannot apologize to my mom's mother as she was hit by a truck and killed 3 years later when my mom was 19 years old.

For myself it has been a struggle to come to grips with this person and try to jump over the hurdle that is my childhood. I think that since she couldn't control what her dad did, she made it a point to dominate every other male in her life. She's since been married and divorced 3 times and I'm her only son. All three marriages were very abusive. The first one was my father being abusive towards her. I think she married him just to escape her mom. The next two marriages had her being the abuser as a means of control on her part.

Myself and my younger sister (born from the third marriage when I was 13 years old) have very little to do with my mother. I have forgiven my mom, but my sister still holds a grudge.

I think my mom did the best that she could, all things considered. I many times wished for a different mom or to be an orphan but it didn't happen.

Eventually I realized that I couldn't control how my mom behaved, but I could control how I reacted to her. I could also control whether to hang onto my resentment and stay stifled for the rest of my life or to let it go and move on with my life.

I called my grandfather's wife a few months back and brought up the subject of my abuse and she told me things I hadn't known (I was 5 years old when it happened and don't recall much except the abuse itself, but not what happened afterwards). With this new information I came to realize I had been used by my mom to get back at her dad. She withheld his grandson as a means of punishing him because he had deserted my mom when she was 16 years old and that she had lied to me about how everything was my fault when it was she who cut the family ties.

Sound familiar? It's disfellowshipping all over again.

My mom is now older and still just as bitter. She refuses to forgive or seek forgiveness. I've have only known her to apologize once to me in my entire life and that was by interfering in a relationship of mine that may have ended in marriage. But she turned the person away from me by lying. I guess she didn't want to lose her punching bag.

Suffice to say, I have forgiven her, but I keep a certain story in mind when it comes to dealing with her.

It seems that a scorpion wanted to cross a river, but scorpions can't swim. He saw a fox nearby and asked the fox for a ride across the river, but the fox refused. "You would sting me and I would die," said the fox.

"But you will be carrying me across the river, and if I sting you then I would also drown and die," reasoned the scorpion.

The fox was convinced. The scorpion jumped on his nose and the fox began swimming across the river. Halfway across, however, the scorpion stung the fox on his nose. As the fox began losing strength and slipping beneath the river's surface, he cried out to the scorpion, "Now we will both die! Why did you sting me?"

He answered: "Because I am a scorpion, and that's what I do. You knew that before you agreed to carry me across."

I'm the Fox, my mom is the scorpion.

So I'm always on my guard that no matter what happens my mom cannot be trusted to change. I'll believe it when I see it, but so far in 41 years of life it has happened.

4

Especially for those who are disfellowshipped

by Lady Viola in

jw
friends

with a big hug from lady viola!!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol79fpgksow&feature=related.

the paranoia is in bloom, the pr.

Awen

I love your avatar Lady Viola.

63

Disfellowshiped ARE REQUIRED to sit in the library!

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

my mother-in-law is making leaps and bounds in her progress to get out of the watchtower.

for those of you that don't know, she is df'd but has been working on "coming back".

recently i've been able to exchange emails about the dangers of the organization and share jesus with her.

Awen

The only comfort I could offer is that they haven't lost their entire family. Your MIL still has you, she has YHWH and she has Jesus.

Personally I would tell her to be bold about her decision and not let anyone try to put her down. Give a bold witness about what she learned and state up fron that if they are going to let the doctrines of men come between family then something is really wrong with them.

The elders use the shunning as a weapon to get people who may have good reasons to leave, to stay, not out of love, but out of fear. Standing up to the elders and putting them in their place works wonders for inspiring others to do the same. Sure it will be hard at first, but as I said earlier, if enough people band together and oppose the Disfellowshipping procedure then the GB will eventually capitulate. The history of any nation or people clearly show that when enough people put their foot down, amazing things can be accomplished. Obviously she shouldn't cut her JW family out of her life, but go on encouraging them and loving them despite the doctrinal disagreements. Like the Bible says "So that they might be won over without a word."

18

KH and DF attendance question

by diamondiiz in

i was reading brotherdan's thread about df individuals having to sit at the back or/and leave for song and prayer.

i know this practice varies from hall to hall or is regional but i was wondering what right do they have to do this if kh is a public place?

it's a charitable organization, public place open to all i thought.

Awen

It'd reall be funny if all the DFed ones banded together and went out in field service.

Of course the elders would object and the Dfed ones could counter with Acts 4:19 :"19 But Peter and John replied, "Which is right in God's eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! 20 As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard."

63

Disfellowshiped ARE REQUIRED to sit in the library!

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

my mother-in-law is making leaps and bounds in her progress to get out of the watchtower.

for those of you that don't know, she is df'd but has been working on "coming back".

recently i've been able to exchange emails about the dangers of the organization and share jesus with her.

Awen

Oh and I'm not trying to put myself in the judgement seat here against anyone else. I know I myself am responsible for lots of my own pain when I was a JW. I read what was in the scriptures and what it said about false prophets, false teachers, and still I stayed.

I had to learn to own my own power and be responsible for my own actions. I also had to admit that no matter how smart I thought I was, I was still deceived.

So what was I going to do about it?