cool. Thanks.
peacedog
JoinedPosts by peacedog
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7
Have there been any new pdf downloads of WTs
by Gordy inhave there been any downloads of recent watchtowers lately..
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Would the WT$ outright lie?
by peacedog inin another thread the question of whether or not the wt$ would "outright lie" was raised.. i happen to believe that they would in a heartbeat, although i agree that their preference is for sneaky misleading statements as opposed to outright lies.
regardless, here's a short list of some of what i consider incontrovertible evidence that yes, the wt$ would outright lie.. .
consider the following statements printed in the wt magazine:.
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peacedog
blondie and ninja: Thanks for more examples.
Joshnaz: Good point. The WT$ has defined a lie as "saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth". Tricky. I guess they view their millions of members and millions more who might read their magazines as not being entitled to know the truth.
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54
Would the WT$ outright lie?
by peacedog inin another thread the question of whether or not the wt$ would "outright lie" was raised.. i happen to believe that they would in a heartbeat, although i agree that their preference is for sneaky misleading statements as opposed to outright lies.
regardless, here's a short list of some of what i consider incontrovertible evidence that yes, the wt$ would outright lie.. .
consider the following statements printed in the wt magazine:.
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peacedog
Homer: Agreed that many (most) JWs don't know the past bullshit of the org. It's for that reason the WTS can get away with printing such blatant lies.
I'm not sure if I agree that the writers aren't familiar with the organization's history though. I think they'd need to be familiar with it.
And lest we forget, the articles are "checked carefully by members of the governing body before they are published."
*** w59 10/1 p. 607 Questions From Readers ***
The literature published by the Watch Tower Society is published in the name of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Regardless of who may write certain articles, they are checked carefully by members of the governing body before they are published; so they are properly viewed as coming from the Society. -
54
Would the WT$ outright lie?
by peacedog inin another thread the question of whether or not the wt$ would "outright lie" was raised.. i happen to believe that they would in a heartbeat, although i agree that their preference is for sneaky misleading statements as opposed to outright lies.
regardless, here's a short list of some of what i consider incontrovertible evidence that yes, the wt$ would outright lie.. .
consider the following statements printed in the wt magazine:.
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peacedog
In another thread the question of whether or not the WT$ would "outright lie" was raised.
I happen to believe that they would in a heartbeat, although I agree that their preference is for sneaky misleading statements as opposed to outright lies. Regardless, here's a short list of some of what I consider incontrovertible evidence that yes, the WT$ would outright lie.
Consider the following statements printed in the WT magazine:
Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world-wide advertising of Christ's return and his second presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah's witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur. (WT June 15/1954, p.370)
If you know the history of the WT$ then you ought to recognize this statement as an outright lie. The WT$ never pointed forward to 1914 as the time for "Christ's return and his second presence". "Long before World War I" (and long after World War I) the WT$ said this "great event" occurred in 1874:
Bible prophecy shows that the Lord was due to appear for the second time in the year 1874. Fulfilled prophecy shows beyond a doubt that he did appear in 1874. Fulfilled prophecy is otherwise designated the physical facts; and these facts are indisputable. (WT Nov 1/1922, p.333)
The charade that they predicted the return of Christ for 1914 is one the WT$ is intent on maintaining and to this end they've published outright lies on numerous occasions.
Another:
Similarly, a prophecy providentially caused sincere 19th-century Bible students to be in expectation. By linking the "seven times" of Daniel 4:25 with "the times of the Gentiles," they anticipated that Christ would receive Kingdom power in 1914. (WT Sep 15/1998, p.15)
Bullshit. In the 19th century the WT$ taught that Christ had already received Kingdom power in 1878:
The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord–the time of his taking to himself his great power to reign... (Time is at Hand,1902,p.239)
Another one:
Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." (Awake! Jan 22/73, p.8)
Bullshit again. "Decades in advance", the WT$ pointed to 1914 as nothing other than the absolute END. The "time of the end" or "conclusion of the system of things" was said to have started in 1799:
"The time of the end" embraces a period from A.D. 1799, as above indicated... (The Harp of God,1921,p.231)
Another:
As far back as 1879, the publishers of this magazine pointed to the year 1914 as a marked year in Bible prophecy, as the starting point for what the Bible calls "the time the end." (Awake!, Oct 8,1972, p 15.)
"As far back as 1879" and much later than 1879 the WT$ pointed to the year 1799 - not 1914 - as the starting point for "the time of end":
"The time of the end" embraces a period from A.D. 1799, as above indicated... (The Harp of God,1921,p.231)
Another:
True to such calculations, 1914 did mark the end of those times and the birth of God's kingdom in heaven with Christ Jesus as king. Just think of it! Jehovah granted his people that knowledge nearly four decades before those times expired. (1975 Yearbook, p. 37)
Four decades before 1914? Not according to this WT$ book published in 1913:
Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present,since October 1874, A.D., according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it: and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1878, A.D. ... Consequently the Kingdom, as represented in our Lord, and the sleeping saints already fitted and prepared and found worthy to be members of "his body," the "bride," was set up in 1878. (Battle of Armageddon,1913,p621-2)
These are a few examples that I had at my fingertips. There are more and no doubt others could offer more examples.
Speaking personally, the fact that the WT$ so readily and so blatantly deceives their readers about their past history convinces me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the JW religion is not the true religion. Endless debates about "a god" vs "God", torture stake vs cross, paradise earth vs heaven can all go out the window. They don't matter because the WT$ is a LIAR ORGANIZATION and therefore not true religion. At least that's how I see it.
peace
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records of disfellowshipped people being destroyed?
by asilentone inone poster on the other thread said the elders are now destroying all records of all disfellowshipped people.
is that true?.
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peacedog
Thanks Jeff. I suspected it wouldn't be that simple..
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records of disfellowshipped people being destroyed?
by asilentone inone poster on the other thread said the elders are now destroying all records of all disfellowshipped people.
is that true?.
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peacedog
From the elder's manual:
If a baptized person insists that he does not want to be part of the congregation and requests that his name be removed from all our records, we should comply with his request .
When I DA'd I quoted this and instructed them to remove my name from any and all records they had on file. No idea whether they "complied".
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peacedog
teel: yep, they do that all the time too. But trust me they outright lie plenty. I'll dig up some examples for you.
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"lucky punch"
by inbetween inafter some research and study here on the net and elsewhere, i know, that the doctrine of blood and the treaching of 1914 are not based on the bible, maybe just loosely related,.
however why are they so much accepted by jw ?.
i think one reason is, because both teachings hit something apparantly right, somehow on accident.. i`ll explain:.
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peacedog
Re blood: I would suggest that more people were killed by following the WT$ doctrine on blood than would have been otherwise. So how is this a lucky punch?
Re 1914: Since the WT$ was predicting the end of the world for Oct 1914, and, well, we're still here, I don't see anything remotely similar to a lucky punch.
Sorry.
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Trinity, 144,000, Earthly Paradise, and 1914 ...hmmm
by Butterflyleia85 inhttp://144000.110mb.com/index.html.
ok i read this for 2 hours now, rereading it at least 6 times... still don't get it.. i still don't believe in the trinity as god jesus and holy spirit being one.
i am starting to see how the number 144,000 can be symbolic sence the rest of revelation is symbolic.
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peacedog
>> I still don't believe in the Trinity as God Jesus and Holy Spirit being one. I just don't get it!
Have you read the Bible? I'm not talking about the NWT. A real Bible? Doing so would go a long way towards understanding the concept.
>> I am starting to see how the number 144,000 can be symbolic sence the rest of Revelation is symbolic. But would this imply maybe that there is a small number that goes to heaven.
No. Reason being, both groups are portrayed as being in the same location. Heaven.
>> I still believe in the Earthly Paradise. It just seems to unreal to put me in a heaven but on new God managed earth that I can see.
Both concepts seem pretty unreal to me. But in terms of what the Bible teaches, it's pretty obvious to me that the Bible points to a heavenly hope for the future:
If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. (Heb 11:15,16)
I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt 8:11)
>> I still don't understand why 1914 is off. Never really understood how they got that number in the first place. It's almost as complicated as believing in the Trinity.
You don't understand why it's off? Show me 1914 in the Bible. It's not there.
>> I don't believe in hell but nobody really argued that one on this board that I saw, so I'm good. Hell is symbolic meaning grave.
Because you say so?
Again, not necessarily a reflection of my beliefs, but the clearest teachings on hell in the Bible come from Jesus himself. You tell me why he taught in such terms:
"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. (Luke 16:22-25)
"And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where "'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
(Mark 9:42-48)Now according to the WT$, Jesus was here teaching his disciples using pagan concepts. I wonder why the son of God would do such a thing?
Just an observation, but you certainly seem to be clinging to WT$ teachings. Which WT doctrines do you no longer believe?
peace
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peacedog
Hi blondie,
I think it was the Feb 2009 Watchtower where they said "the number of anointed ones on the earth has decreased over the decades"