Posts by JCanon

13

Abraham's Sacrifice

by Aalena in

i'm taking this philosophy class(oh no worldy wisdom) and the instructer mentioned how it always bothered him how abraham's god(yaweh or jehovah to us) had put him through the ordeal of even asking him to sacrifice his son.

i identified with this because it's something that always bothered me as well.

i know it was supposedly just a "test" but to me it doesn't seem like something jehovah would ever do when taking into consideration his characteristics outlined in the bible.

JCanon

Abraham is a fictional, or at best, a semi-fictional character. The story of the sacrifice was written by the priesthood in the very early days of the Jewish religion - at a time when some pockets of persons were still practicing human sacrifice (see Jephthah). The story is a parable, showing that God himself no longer wants humans to be sacrificed. Animals would suffice.

Interesting, but you can't confirm this. It's more likely it's your own fantasy that this is not real. The JEWS ARE REAL....Ask Barbara Streisand.

JC

13

Abraham's Sacrifice

by Aalena in

i'm taking this philosophy class(oh no worldy wisdom) and the instructer mentioned how it always bothered him how abraham's god(yaweh or jehovah to us) had put him through the ordeal of even asking him to sacrifice his son.

i identified with this because it's something that always bothered me as well.

i know it was supposedly just a "test" but to me it doesn't seem like something jehovah would ever do when taking into consideration his characteristics outlined in the bible.

JCanon

Hi Farkel, interesting concept, but...

If God was omnipotent, he would have already known in advance that Abraham would pass the test, and since he is incapable of lying, he would have told "Satan" that Abraham would pass the test. Satan would have had no reason therefore to challenge God further.

There is more invovled with simply Jehovah knowing. I would like you consider, for instance, how we teach our children. Take for example some math problems. Sure we know all the answers right? We could fill in the answers or tell our children what the answers are and they would know the answers. But do we do that? No. Because it's important the children learn to arrive at the answers themselves.

Thus God might have known in Abraham's heart that he was willing to do this, but it makes a difference for Abraham to go through the process of actually experiencing the loss, psychologically. That's the difference. Telling Abraham I want you to symbolically sacrifice your son and I'll stop you at the last minute is a lot different than having Abraham think he was actually doing it.

Thus again, your analogy reflects your usual blind-sidedness. Your like a thoroughbred race horse with blinders on. You see clearly the finish line ahead in your own lane but don't realize there are others lanes and other horses competing with you. You're practiced running around the track a zillion times and you think this is just the same thing. Technically, sure all you're doing is running around the same track as fast as you can, but it's a little different when you're alone running on the track trying to improve your time than when the actual race is in progress.

Just some considerations. You have to get rid of the tunnel vision sometimes and equip with some peripheral vision to understand, especially, complex cultural and symbolic issues.

JC

17

The Tree of Life, Asherah, and Her Snakes

by Leolaia in

the garden of eden narrative in genesis 2-3 (j) is generally thought to have a mythological background, and its sumerian and akkadian parallels have been widely noted: the resemblence between the tale of adapa and the story of adam and eve's deception regarding the death-dealing fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the story of adam's creation and life with the animals and the tale of enkidu from the epic of gilgamesh, the edenic blessedness described in the tale of enmerkar, and so forth.

the canaanite and phoenician parallels however are not noted as often -- though these would be more pertinent to the native judean context of the eden narrative.

this post will explore some of these parallels in an attempt to trace the mythological background of the eden story, which is complex and multi-layered.

JCanon

JCanon, I asked you twice not to post in my threads -- along the lines of your agreement with PP. I have not been posting in your threads since I made the request. Okay?

Oh, I'm sorry. I do remember now. It's been a while and I just remembered something about being brief. I do apologize and will retract my info and maintain our agreement. No more posting on your threads.

Have a nice day and thanks for your research. I'll just read it (smile). Please forgive, I truly did forget.

JC

17

The Tree of Life, Asherah, and Her Snakes

by Leolaia in

the garden of eden narrative in genesis 2-3 (j) is generally thought to have a mythological background, and its sumerian and akkadian parallels have been widely noted: the resemblence between the tale of adapa and the story of adam and eve's deception regarding the death-dealing fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the story of adam's creation and life with the animals and the tale of enkidu from the epic of gilgamesh, the edenic blessedness described in the tale of enmerkar, and so forth.

the canaanite and phoenician parallels however are not noted as often -- though these would be more pertinent to the native judean context of the eden narrative.

this post will explore some of these parallels in an attempt to trace the mythological background of the eden story, which is complex and multi-layered.

JCanon

Comments retracted. Thanks for your info L!

JC

17

The Tree of Life, Asherah, and Her Snakes

by Leolaia in

the garden of eden narrative in genesis 2-3 (j) is generally thought to have a mythological background, and its sumerian and akkadian parallels have been widely noted: the resemblence between the tale of adapa and the story of adam and eve's deception regarding the death-dealing fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the story of adam's creation and life with the animals and the tale of enkidu from the epic of gilgamesh, the edenic blessedness described in the tale of enmerkar, and so forth.

the canaanite and phoenician parallels however are not noted as often -- though these would be more pertinent to the native judean context of the eden narrative.

this post will explore some of these parallels in an attempt to trace the mythological background of the eden story, which is complex and multi-layered.

JCanon

Hi Leolaia, no comment per our agreement. Thanks for the research!! [previous comment retracted]

JC

7

Is the 'slave' appointed before the 'erxomia' (coming) of Christ?

by Daniel Michaels in

21 his master said to him, ?well done, good and faithful slave!

3. slave appointed over many things

12-13 ?the faithful slave?

JCanon

Very good.

The overview is that Christ begins is "parousia" in 1919 but his second "coming" is a specifically dated event that happens near the end of that time. At the beginning he invests with not just one slave but several who do business until he returns. He returns with "kingly power" meaning that he was not a king when he commissioned them.

When he does return, he collects what work the slaves have done, namely those ripe for inclusion into the kingdom. Several slave groups do well, but one, an evil slave group only basically returns what was invested.

But this single slave organization gets a lot of particular focus and is, indeed, the witness organization, since this organization is the "temple" organization, a specific organization like the Jews who have a special covenant and responsibility for accomplishing certain things, though the leadership, in the end, fails to be found a "faithful and discrete slave" but becomes the sluggish and "evil slave". That the governing body over God's public "temple" organization, God's own temple (2 Thess 2:4) becomes apostate is noted in scripture.

Key points here though, are that even if the WTS is the special "temple" organization, it is not the only one God is working through at this time. Thus note this witness organization is also the "wheat and weed" organization and the "sheep and goat" organization. Indeed, a separation between the good and bad take place within this single organization. But specifically how is this done? Does Christ kick out the evil slave and take over the organization? No. He takes his sheep out of that organization and abandons it. He takes out the "little flock" and leads them to "other sheep, not of this fold"; apparently, a larger fold!

So it's is rather interesting and complex. But one could say, yes, the WTS leadership was "appointed" around 1914 for a special work, a harvesting work of 11 hours. Each hour is 7 years since a half hour is 3-1/2 years per Revelation. Thus for 77 years (11 x 7) into the last generation (80 years; 1914-1994) they would do this vineyard special work. But as you note, proclaiming them "faithful" or false doesn't happen until the return, when the kingship is established.

What is difficult for many to understand is that this special appointed organization is the same one as the evil slave organization; a mixture of good and bad, wheat and weeds, sheep and goats--that would be together during the main part of the "generation" with a critical separation of the sheep being removed from the organization when the Christ returns. It think it is a critical note, again, that Christ does not kick out the evil slave but takes out his sheep and joins them with his other sheep gathered in other organizations; thus the organization and it's leaders, the "false prophet" are abandoned. We thus see Christendom, the 666-Beast and the "false prophet" still in full operation when they are destroyed, cast into the lake of fire "while still alive."

So..... 'Get out of her, my people!"....right?

Thanks for the nice focus!

JC

29

Numbers both literal and symbolic (April 1st Watchtower)

by ozziepost in

i wonder how many readers of the watchtower have noticed the seeming inconsistency of the 144,000 teaching in the april 1st issue?.

after discussing the symbolic nature of the numbers 666 on the wild beast comes this statement:.

"immediately after disclosing the number 666, revelation mentions 144,000 followers of the lamb, jesus christ, who have his name and the name of his father, jehovah, written on their foreheads.".

JCanon

Hi Blondie...I agree with you...

The answer is indicated by the fact that, after mention of the definite number 144,000, Revelation 7:9 refers to "a great crowd, which no man was able to number." If the number 144,000 were not literal it would lack meaning as a contrast to the "great crowd." Viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus? statement at Matthew 22:14 regarding the Kingdom of the heavens: "There are many invited, but few chosen."

There is a limited number compared to an unlimited one. But whether the 144,000 is literal or symbolic of some other "limited" number is optional.

The reason I've noted for this is because everything else is symbolic in the context of the 144,000.

1. They are all "virgins"?

2. They are all Jews, 12,000 from each of the 12 specific tribes.?

3. They are all "men"?

These are taken as "symbolic", obviously, but not the number.

My position is thus a compromise. Yes, 144,000 probably is a symbolic number too, but of some "multiple" of that number if not literal. Since 10 is an earthly number 144K x 10 is likely the literal number.

The gathering of the anointed to be done during the last days would have some relevance to this and my impression is that 144,000 is way too small for those of the anointed and 1,440,000 is closer to the number God wants to fill.

A precedent for using "10" is that 7 weeks become 70 weeks, 49 weeks become 490 years; both multiples of 10 for a symbolic number other.

7 x 7 = 49 x 10 = 490

12 x 12 = 144,000 x 10 = 1,440,000.

?

I suppose you can also think in terms of these "king" priests in relation to the population. What is the ratio one would expect? Are these congregation overseers (over 100), or circuit overseers (over 1000) or district overseers (over 10,000?).

If each anointed member at 1,440,000 were over 10,000, which is "kingly" enough I'd say, then it would extrapolate a population of 14,400,000,000 = 14 billion + people.

But that's just speculation. Guess we'll have to wait for the details when we're further along.

JC

14

Excellent Chronology website

by City Fan in

for anyone who's interested, i just wanted to post a link to a great chronology website i've found.

you can find it at: http://www.caeno.org/.

basically it deals with babylonian astronomy, king lists, chronicles, synchronisms etc.

JCanon

CF...oh great!!

What you're looking for is the Adobe pdf document titled "Diary No. -567 an analysis of all intelligible observations (31 pages)".
It's 31 pages of star charts and discussions of every observation in VAT 4956. There are also some good Adobe pdf files on astronomy basics, which show why your calculation for line 8 is wrong. You need to use an ecliptic grid or RA/declination grid for the terms 'Above', 'Below', 'In front of' and 'behind' to remain consistent.

Thanks! I hadn't realized. Intersesting they think Line 8 is incorrect. Neugebaur already posted that Line 14 is incorrect and Sachs/Hunger had previously acknowedged that Line 3 was always incorrect. This is PRECISELY what I'd love to see. This is a great discovery!! Thanks.

Now I'm wondering if they went a step further to presume that the VAT4956 being an earlier text is set to a different lunar cycle than the later texts such as the SK400 and all the others from the Seleucid Era?

Also, I'm wondering what they do with Line 18? Do they just say, "no the Moon was not there" but did they replace it with Venus? Further, are they claiming that the "Bright Star Behind the Lion's Foot" (MUL KUR sa TIL GIR UR-A) (Lines 14 and 18) is the same as "Rear Foot of the Lion" (GIR ar sa UR-A)? They are two different stars! Neugebaur never noticed that Sachs/Hunger were treating it that way and Sachs/Hunger apparently never corrected him. But since they used a star assignment in Line 3 "beta-Virginis" and the actual transliteration in Lines 14 and 18 "bright star behind the Lion's Foot" it invites a non-comparison instead of transliterating booth: "Rear foot of the lion" vs "Bright star behind the Lion's Foot" vs "beta-Virginis" vs "eta-Virginis." But since they deceptively put "the moon" instead of Venus in Line 18, this may be part of the deception that they were hoping for. It's a complicated maze with several possibilities that distracts from finding the real conflict and misapplication here.

Thus it will be interesting if the researchers consider Line 3's "Rear Foot of the Lion" as beta-Virginis or sigma-Leonis. The VAT4956 requires Line 3's Rear Foot of the Lion to be "sigma-Leonis" not beta-Vrignis as Sachs/Hunger says. Obviously, without the correct star reference means more errors. So I will follow this.

Thanks, again, will check out!

JC

27

The JW's release new brochure...."Keep On The Watch!"

by logansrun in

on getting back from the dallas apostafest i was able to see the new release from saturday's convention program that my mother attended.

it's a 32 page brochure entitled, "keep on the watch!

" with the subtitle, "for what?

JCanon

This is distrubing. Sadly but as prophesied the WTS would be thrown into the lake of fire (as the false prophet beast) along with Christendom, the 666-Beast "while still alive." That means they would still be attempting to operate fully as an organization when destroyed.

A modern fulfilllment of that could be the legal dissolution of all religion by some UN madate, which seems already in the works. The nature of this pushed "world terroism", which seems to be funded by others than the terrorists themselves is religion-based, which is an essential reason to have the world give up their religions. If the US gives up sovereignty to the UN, which it must to fulfill prophecy, then it is the Japanese and Russians and the rest of the world who have their own religion who will be telling Christians they must give theirs. With their reputation for the Crusades and the Holocaust plus the academic attacks on Jesus' historicity, it shouldn't be difficult to do. Plus some "militant" pro-white organizations are connected with Christianity as well, i.e. KKK, etc.

Anyway, the WTS trying to keep face until the last moment in spite of probably KNOWING they are lost is consistent with what is prophesied. Maybe this summer's prophesied terrorist attacks might turn the tied. Not a happy time but it will end nicely with the millennium.

JC

20

how far would you have gone?

by zen nudist in

i recall while i was just a new jw how horrified i was at the "brother" who was bringing me along.... when he told me that he was so sure about the governing body being jehovah's mouth piece, that if one day they announced--this is it, this is the end, kill any and all non-jws in your path....he would do it.

JCanon

This will ALWAYS be a problem for those inside unless you are paying really close attention to the scriptures. That's because the GB was being used as "God's mouthpiece" but not now; they were disfellowshipped on Nov. 20, 1992 as God's mouthpiece and became the official "evil slave" that was prophesied about.

This relates to the "what and weeds growing together until the harvest" which describes the organization as one infested with weeds but still being used by God for a time when a separation work will be done. Some can separate if they are Biblically astute but others still can't understand why this "Lamb" is speaking like a "Dragon" and so when the conflict comes between the Bible and the GB, many make the wrong choice and choose the GB, because they have begun to "worship" the "angel" that gave them the truth.

So the GB and JWs have way more truth than Christendom but less truth and the accrulately known scriptures now so they are in spiritual darkness as far as accurate truth.

It's a delimmna. Only those abandoning the GB and sticking with the Bible will find their way out. Going to other religions won't work after you know the accruate truth of the WTS; that which is accurate.

My 2 cents.

But the parables in the Bible about the "kingdom of the heavens" and what would be going on during the last days is believable as being fulfilled by the WTS, they were used to "preach the good news". But this "slave" was also to become apostate so that's what we're seeing now. The expulsion of God's one-time "mouthpiece". So you have to have BOTH concepts in place. Yes the GB was used as God's mouthpiece for a time, but not now. That's why they don't have the truth any more. Letting go of them is confusing unless you understand this concept.

JC