Posts by JCanon

38

Questions about Jehovah's Witnesses that I need answers to

by the real truth in

i'm not trying to offend anyone by asking questions, but i really want answers to my questions from jehovah's witnesses.

ok, i've been having a problem with john 1:1. how many gods are there?

the most famous distortion in the nwt is john 1:1. the nwt inserts the word "a" in front of the second god in this verse.

JCanon

If you want to understand John 1:1 you have to simply consider the special circumstance that "god" is both a position in heaven and the "title" of the Creator. So when making a reference to Jesus being "god", an ultimate being in the universe as far as power and greatness, "god" being the most the language offers, John used that term to apply to Jesus but qualified it by acknowledging that God the Creator was present and thus there were two gods. Thus John 1:1 is merely stating that in the beginning God created another god and thus there were two gods; the Father greater than the son, of course.

Translating this as "the Word was a god" diminishes John's point.

The only other issue is that Jesus being a co-god with the Creator does not conflict with any other scripture regarding Jesus; i.e, that he is an archangel, Michael, and the first and foremost creation of God the Father.

Finally, even if the translation of John 1:1 is complex and hard to understand when translated, the other scriptures clarify just who Jesus is. That is, John 1:1 would not preempt the other scriptures that indicate Jesus is the first creation of God and Michael, the archangel. John 1:1 just lets us know he is a co-god with the Father from the beginning.

Canon

18

Nazareth/Nazarite....answers?

by peacefulpete in

especially gumby may be interested in this bit of speculation i found on the net.

some time ago a thread was started that revealed that nazareth was founded as a village 100-300 years too late to have been the birthplace of jesus, so what is the explanation for the gospel story?

at www.essenes.crosswinds.net/naz01.htm a possible answer in offered.

JCanon

why are you stil here?

You must be mistaken. I was never here. Or does that actually apply to you?

Canon

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

JCanon

All came to bitter disappointment when the events predicted failed. And all their impressive charts and graphs were for nothing.

Well, as I said, we are POST FULFILLMENT at this time so the prophecies work. The 50th jubilee which should have seen the Jews return to the homeland for the last time SHOULD HAVE occurred in 1947 and IT DID occur in 1947, so that prophesy was fulfilled.

The "great tribulation" per chronology SHOULD HAVE occurred after 62 weeks, meaning after 1940 but before 1947, a "great tribulation" like none other that happened before to Daniel's people and one in which "two parts" out of three would be exterminated. That DID happen during the HOLOCAUST. So those prophecies WERE fulfilled just as the Bible says. It's after the fact. The other prophecies you mentioned by others FAILED. These did not.

Canon

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

JCanon

"It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."

Hi Mizpah. I agree with you that many prophecies will understood and noted to be fulfilled after the fact. However, many prophesied Biblical events that are connected to prophecy are now past events. The above scripture, though, is not a general reference to all future events but just to one specific event, and that was in answer to a question to Jesus as to when his kingdom would begin to rule in the earth. That is something connected with immediately after Armageddon. It is that specific event that is within God's jurisdiction and which we should not concern ourselves with trying to date. But other events, such as the "end of the gentile times" (1947) which also ends the 1290 days, the second coming ("7 times prophecy"; "1335 days prophecy", "70th mid-week prophecy") have chronology connected to them and thus can be dated Biblically.

For instance, the "jubilee" event of the 50th jubilee since 455BCE would be a significant event to fulfill in regards to the Jews returning for the final time to their homeland, if ever that symbolism was to be fulfilled. The 50th jubilee occurs in 1947. Is it thus a mere coincidence the Jews return to Palestine within that rear and officially become a nation again? I hardly think so. Is it also a coincidence that we can now prove by the VAT4956 that the fall of Jerusalem occurred in 529BCE and thus the end of the "7 times" can be correctly dated to 1992 and that is also the same year that the "1335 days" ends from 1947? (1947+45=1992, 1290+45=1335; 2520 - 529=1991+1=1992). I hardly think so. Plus the mid-70th-week passover occurs in 1993. Are all these prophecies converging in 1992-1993 just a coincidence? If one is inclined in the direction of thinking so, then can one expect to follow other less subtle Biblical references I'm wondering.

I know it's easier not to look at all and just wait. But if you have faith, it will be rewarded when you see everything being fulfilled right on time. Still, the things left in God's own jurisdiction remain a mystery upon which we must wait.

Canon

147

586/587 the K.I.S.S. approach --- no VAT4956, Ptolemy, Josephus needed

by Alleymom in

nabonidus -- 17 years.

nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years.

nabonidus -- 17 years

JCanon

The later articles and books are masterpieces of carefully-worded deception. Would any honest person have stated there is "only one strictly historical tablet" for Neriglissar without explaining that there are also numerous dated tablets of other genres, and that these do indeed cover the other years of Neriglissar's reign?

My assessment is that you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. The WTS is not contesting the 4-year rule of Evil-Merodach. Generally, when expanding the Neo-Babylonian period by 20 years, which Josephus also does, the 20 years are just added to the reign of Ewil-Merodach's 2 years making it 22 years. I think the WTS would go along with that and may have even published something in that regard.

They are simply selling that we don't have documents supporting the lengths of all these kings' reigns and without that information one cannot disprove the Bible's chronology which reflects a longer Babylonian period.

Even though NOW, with the discovery in the VAT495 of double -dating, we know the 568BCE dating is corrupted and false, and "apparently" the 511BCE was the original chronology, which agrees totally with the Bible's (not JWs!) chronology.

So...depends on how interested you are in the absolute truth regarding the ancient dating.

Canon

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

JCanon

Therefore, the expectation of the Jews for the future was the rule of their Messiah and the a time of peace and prosperity for themselves and the world. This is the reason that some were disappointed that Jesus did not rule when he appeared the first time.

Actually, we agree, except the details of fulfillment are not quite right.

Basically the Jews get back to their homeland after this attack of "Gog of Magog" (the Nazis), but they don't get their king ruling in the earth until the millennium begins. That's when Christ becomes king in Israel.

Again, I'm with you on Israel being significant in the last days and don't know how the WTS could have missed this reference regarding their restoration, one of many in scripture...Ezekie 39-39:

38:8 "In the final part of the years will you come into the land..... 39:25 "...Now is when I shall bring back the captive ones of Jacob and actually have mercy upon all the ouse of Israel.. When I bring them back fro the peoples and I actually collect them together out of the lands of their enemies."

The restoration to their land took place at the "end of the gentile times" which was in 1947; this was also the end of the "1290 days." Their Messiah was to arrive 45 years later to fulfill the "1335 days". But he was to first come not as a king ruling over Israel, but as a "thief in the night" for an interval of time when Satan was still in operation.

Thus the promises of peace and the rule by a king in Israel in total peace would not be fulfilled until after this interval is over, when the millennium begins. So the arrival of the Messiah and the beginning of his rule in the earth over Israel are two different events. The first is dated to 1992 by Bible prophecy, the other, as Acts states is not known and "within God's own jurisdiction."

Acts 1:6 "they went asking him: 'Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" he said to them: "It does not belong to you to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction."

As I noted, at least 4 chronologic references coordinate to date the "second coming" which is not the same time as when God restores his kingdom in Israel, something God has kept to himself, and thus has not provided in scripture.

People have various interpretations, but my impression is the peace and righteousness and all those things that Israel would have under their final king would not take place until he actually began to rule over Israel again and that would not be until after the other kingdoms have stepped down and thus after "Armageddon".

If you need an OT reference, an excellent chronology application is understood using the Image with the head of gold, breast of silver, etc. A stone is cut out of a moutain and travels through the air to strike the feet of the image and grinds all the representative kingdoms to pieces. Thus when the stone is cut out of the mountain, that is the time the kingdom is set up; that is the time of the second coming. But it does not strike the feet of the ruling nations immediately, there is an interval between that event and the time when that kingdom strikes the feet and destroys the image and then becomes a big mountain to rule over the entire earth. That is when Israel will have those prophesies fulfilled and when the temple will be completed, etc. except the earthly temple was a shadow of the greater spiritual temple anyway, so that is the temple that will be completed at the time of the second coming; not an earthly temple.

Canon

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

JCanon

what a load of rubbish. the jews today have nothing to do with bible prophecy. 1948 means nothing.

Well, it's rubbish to you, since that's your opinion. JWs, likewise, think the natural Jews have nothing to do to fulfill Bible prophecy. But the Bible does say they would one day return to their homeland.

Of note on my side of the argument is that 1947 isn't just any year. It's the 50th JUBILEE since 455BCE. The jubilee is the 50th year after a week of 49 years and thus the 1st year to begin another 49 years. So 1947 would have been a significant jubilee year for either Christians or the Jews anyway. Interesting that's the very year the Jews regained control over Palestine.

Also, of note, in Luke when a reference is made to the "appointed times of the nations" it shows the literal Jews, not the Christians, being led into exile and Jerusalem was to be trampled on by the nations, meaning the Jews would remain in exile during that time. So when the Jews return is a signal to many that that is the true "end of the gentile times" in Palestine and the restoration of the Jews and from that point we stem other chronology.

So disbelieve if you wish, but seems might "coincidental" to me that the Jews return on their own 50th jubilee, right?

Hmmmmmmm.....

Canon

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

JCanon

Didn't most of the Old Testament prophcies predict peace and prosperity for Israel and the world upon its return? If true, how can we correlate the present conditions in Israel with these prophecies?

No. The peace and prosperity come during the "millennium" after Armageddon. Before that is promised great turmoil in the earth. But the Bible does say that God would bless Israel! Thus even though Israel hasn't had total peace, it has prospered in an amazing way as a nation. The Jews, going from one-third Holocaust survivors into an international state I think is impressive. Even they are amazed with themselves!

Canon

18

Nazareth/Nazarite....answers?

by peacefulpete in

especially gumby may be interested in this bit of speculation i found on the net.

some time ago a thread was started that revealed that nazareth was founded as a village 100-300 years too late to have been the birthplace of jesus, so what is the explanation for the gospel story?

at www.essenes.crosswinds.net/naz01.htm a possible answer in offered.

JCanon

What can I say, your logic and objective analysis are mind boggling. Please do not respond to serious posts since you feel that being a Bible Literalist means evidence is irrelevant.

I hope you realize that your position is one of "bias" as well since what is considered as "evidence" is a matter of subjective opinion.

For instance, evolutionists will get some kind of a radiocarbon clock or some other kind of dating they THINK they understand and come up with all kinds of wild dates about the age of man and the earth and call it "scientific evidnece" then can't figure out why Creationists are laughing at them. The reason being, IF the Bible is true, say about the age of man and the scientists come up with something far different it simply means their methods are dysfunctional and incompetent.

Same here to an extent. Lots of your "evidence" is based upon subjective presumptions and conclusions that would not be considered as "evidence" sufficent for me whether I believed in the Bible or not. I'm just extremely critical and when people start to make excuse after excuse to make a point, unless it's labelled as "supposition" and "opinion" I reject it. \

So what can I say? I believe you totally are convinced about your position so that my rejection or implied rejection is not a "serious" response. You're entitled to that OPINION...but it is just that, an opinion.

Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on this point.

Canon

147

586/587 the K.I.S.S. approach --- no VAT4956, Ptolemy, Josephus needed

by Alleymom in

nabonidus -- 17 years.

nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years.

nabonidus -- 17 years

JCanon

Not content to follow a simple explanation, because that would show the flaws, he is content to use the Fred Franz method: Obfuscate the matter with so many small, hard to verify details that the reader is convinced that he must be right: he is more knowledgeable than me.

I don't think you realize that I think 607BCE is a wrong date as well. I don't support that date.

But I also don't support 539BCE which is also connected to 587BCE. I'm with Martin Anstey who believed the entire chronology from this period was corrupt and that we need to use the Bible for dating the 1st of Cyrus around 455BCE. That's my position. I'm not supporting Fred Franz...

Canon