OTWO
I think I would have steped aside and a fader by now.
tjlibre
JoinedPosts by tjlibre
-
10
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 3
by tjlibre indescribing your personality in writing is a challenging task.
they say that body language represents 85% of our communication, obviously you cant see my face as i give this account.
the following might probably make me sound like a prideful person, but ill like to say that im far from that.
-
-
-
22
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 5 and final
by tjlibre ini have expressed in this forum that sometimes im confused as to what will be my ultimate decision.
at this point in my life there is too much at stake.
first, my own emotional estate, ill hate to bitterly regret the years expend taking unnecessary emotional abuse and theocratic bulling.
-
-
tjlibre
Now what?
I have expressed in this forum that sometimes I’m confused as to what will be my ultimate decision. At this point in my life there is too much at stake. First, my own emotional estate, I’ll hate to bitterly regret the years expend taking unnecessary emotional abuse and theocratic bulling. Leaving some good friends behind will definitively leave an empty space in my life. But what concerns me the most is the effect that my leaving the org. will have in my marriage life, I love that woman (my wife) I wouldn’t want to be the one to mess “things up”.
Where do I go with what I now know?
Could I keep a straight face when in casual conversations someone express to me word of praise for how “good” the GB is to us, how they provide “with meat in due season” at the proper time. Or when they criticize other religions for being oppressive, preaching lies, being joyful or when they mock catholic people for following the “pope”, etc. Will I be able to keep my mouth shot, or will I nod with neutral facial expressions hence becoming less of the man I really am?
Lately, in some of my parts I’ve been including more “Christians” concepts, words and spirit. For example, I began to use the word “grace” as replacement to “undeserved kindness”. When I take out the group I remind the “publishers” to seek for opportunities to show real love to the people in the territory, that placing a magazine is “ok”, but that if we see the opportunity to give food to a hungry person, a blanket to a homeless and a hug to a grieving individual we’ll also be pleasing and honoring God. And try to use their “preaching time” also in visiting the bro and sister that are in the hospitals, in a nursing home or sick at home. I encourage some of the young ones to seek a higher education if they have the opportunity to do so, I go as far as offering to help them in finding a school, apply for financial aid and pick a course of study. When the bro approach me showing concern for their “low preaching hours” I try to emphasize that sharing our faith with others is important, but that there is much more that defines a real Christian other than just going from door to door. Etc.
In other words, I seek for opportunities to provide encouragement and comfort to the flock as much as I can.
However, I know that others are deserving of the hard-core information. The real good stuff, those I’m directing by dropping hints, directing them to the Kingdom Proclaimer’s book…hey did you know that Russell believed that Jesus was enthroned in 1874 and not 1914… Oh, bro. Rutherful was so excited about the….he thought that the end was coming in 1925, that’s why he built beth sharim…etc, Oh yes that’s on the KP’s book, pg such and such. get my drift.
What does the future holds for me in this religion?
Sometimes I think I could deal with it. Again becoming a less committed JW appears to be the answer and it’s a very attractive option. But I’m aware that this will be difficult because it means that I’ll have to do certain things that at times will upset me.
The poster named “undercover” once said that us, members of the “conscious class” who are still in the religion, were captives and not hypocrites. Ever since I read this comment it has been a little easier to deal with certain things, in fact its even comforting because it means that as a captive person I can work from the inside to bring about liberation not just for me but for others. But also I feel less of a hypocrite towards the brotherhood because I see them now as victims, at different levels… but at the end captives of the WT.
My days as an elder are numbered, but my days as a witness are still uncertain.
What have I learned about me and people?
In the words of John Legend “we’re just ordinary people we don’t know which way to go”.
I was looking for God, the JW found me. I decided to believe in what they thought me, it was my responsibility to be like the Bereans Christians. The WT has over 100 years of experience selling “snake oil”, I was a believer who felt the that opium and the alcohol in the WT’s “snake oil” was doing good to me. I’ve learned that I’m not stupid, but that I was duped. I’ve learn that I have more integrity than what I thought, because I stock to my decision for a long time knowing that the WT was less than truthful. Also, I can not leave out that there were other events going on in my personal life that kept me in the religion. Talking about them here will increase the risk of someone - like the brother from bethel reading this, or you the curious lurker - finding out my real identity. In essence, I have learned more about the real me, what I really want and what I was lacking.
About people…I’ve learn that some were just like me. But many fear the responsibility of making decisions on their own, they fear freedom…in the word of Randy…some are better off left in the “cult”. So it is not my mission to take them out, but I can help in showing them the way…
I care about the people in the JW religion, I care about the sheep in the cong. Even if the day comes when they might turn their backs on me, shun me, and probably spit on my face and stone me to death…I won’t hold them responsible. In the words of R. Franz they are “captives of a concept” “victims of victims”. I have learned that there is a difference between real Christians and WT loyalists.
Where does my faith in God and Christianity stand now?
I’m a “reflective humanist Christian”, the bible says that God is love, therefore, love is my new religion. I believe in a Creator. I believe that there is more to life than this present life, but that believe should not stop me from living this life to the fullest, and from squeezing the juice out of this present life of mine.
I feel that its presumptuous to think that humans could have a complete understanding of the deepest things of God, then pack it, wrap it, put a labeled on it and call it the “Truth”. That is like putting Jehovah’s greatness and wisdom in a box. I’m not going to try to put theology in a box. I now have the freedom to get to know God a little better, gain my own individual understanding of his grace and love, after all its suppose to be a personal relationship. I have the mental freedom to grow spiritually and in faith in Him, not in man, not in organizations, not in theology, but in Him. It’s an endeavor worth the risk.
In conclusion…
The WT is just another company and its sole purpose is to survival. The GB have lost the real meaning of leadership through love, they are playing with peoples lives and will be held responsible for their action on the day that they take their stand in front of God as individuals. The rank and files are wearing out, only a few hardcore loyalists remain, the rest are just going with the flow… just fonti’n.
As for me,again I’ll need to cultivate patience and serenity. I could be resisting God’s grace; I don’t think it’s a coincidence that I’ve been placed in this position. For good or for worse… I feel that God has a reason for keeping me in this mess me for so long. I’m still waiting for his call to action and I hope to hear it soon.
For what is worth, this is part of my story….and I’m sticking to it!!
Thanks for reading.
-
4
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 4
by tjlibre inbro.
org.
man approached me and asked why are you not an elder?
-
-
tjlibre
Bro. “Org. Man” approached me and asked “Why are you not an elder?” I acted naively and said, I don’t know, I suppose that the HS has not directed bro “Sudden Change” to recommend me. He looked at me and said, “that’s going to change, would you like to become one?” two conflicting thoughts came to my head: (1) say no and renounce my position as a MS, (2) say yes, and have the opportunity to make a difference and see what goes on behind closed doors. I felt like Gollum and Smeagol from Lord of the Rings… (my Gollum) “they are all hypocrites, this is your change to be free say no…noo” (my Smeagol) “No. Not master (Jah)!” (my Gollum) “Yes, precious, false! They will cheat you, hurt you, LIE.” (my Smeagol) “Master (Jah) looks after us now. We don't need you anymore.” (my Gollum) “you know you don’t trust them (the WT and the GB) anymore you are an APOSTATE!!! APOSTATE!!! (my Smeagol to Gollum) “LEAVE! NOW! AND NEVER COME BACK!” …. I said Yes to p.o “Org. Man”, the recommendation was approved and I was later appointed as a cong. elder.
I soon noticed that in the elders meetings the bible was rarely used, that what dominated the meetings were assumptions, personal opinions and above all the pronouncements, directions, rules and policies from the “Slave”. I was disappointed as it was obvious that we were acting as business managers, supervisors, rule enforcers and lords over the cong. members…not as real shepherds of the flock. I signed up to be a teacher and a pastor and not to be a supervisor and a judge. Bro. “Org. Man” was precisely that…an organization man to the fullest extend of the word, not a jerk or a bad person, but a pure organization man, this guy would not take a step forward unless it was done precisely as the slave has directed it. Technically bro. “Org. Man” was a good Christian, but far from being a spiritual person, he lacked scriptural insight and discernment, but well versed in the WT policy, procedures and pronouncements.
There is a difference between being a follower of man and looking up to a person. I was very disappointed at the appointed man I’ve dealt with; I thought that some how I would find a person in the Org that will show me the way to operate without compromising my integrity to the word of God. Bro. “Org. Man” was all about status in the cong and the circuit, he was more concerned about the name of the cong being known than on its spirituality, he was more concerned about the number of pioneers in the cong than the quality of their preaching, he was more concern about his image than on doing the morally right things. In essence, he showed me that in order to have clout and respect you need to climb up the organization ladder, have friends in the WT’s high places, walk the FDS walk and talk the FDS talk. It was not about reflecting Christ like qualities, it was about being an Organization Man.
Something happened to my cognitive abilities during the time that my doubts were at its strongest. My eyes were now opened to noticed how the language in the publication was about following and obeying the GB, how many times the argumentations in support of the WT’s doctrines were weak, dubious and condescending. After months and days of reflection and prayers, I mastered the courage to do some research on the internet on other Christian denominations, I wanted to see how they operate, how they were structured and organized. This led me to some ex-JW information, which led me to Ray. Franz books.
It took $15 dollars (for the CoC book) and a study version of a non-WT bible to finally reach to the conclusion that the JW religion is not “the truth”, that even though it’s run by imperfect man, the dominating spirit is not real Christian love and fellowship. That the WT is a business which use and abuse the Christian sheep that are associating with it, that the GB exercises too much un-scriptural control over the lives of JWs and above all…that this is not God’s Organization because the Master of the Universe, the Grand Creator does not need a human organization (with its heads quarters in Brooklyn NY) to reveal Himself to humanity.
Now what? Where do I go with what I now know? What does the future holds for me in this religion? What have I learned about me and people? Where does my faith in God and Christianity stand now?
I’ll try to articulate some answer to these question in part 5.
-
10
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 3
by tjlibre indescribing your personality in writing is a challenging task.
they say that body language represents 85% of our communication, obviously you cant see my face as i give this account.
the following might probably make me sound like a prideful person, but ill like to say that im far from that.
-
-
tjlibre
freewilly01, got your PM. Will respond shortly. Thanks
-
10
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 3
by tjlibre indescribing your personality in writing is a challenging task.
they say that body language represents 85% of our communication, obviously you cant see my face as i give this account.
the following might probably make me sound like a prideful person, but ill like to say that im far from that.
-
-
tjlibre
Hi recovering, I'm an active elder now. I was explaining the part of the story before my appointment. I'll explain more in part 4.
-
10
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 2
by tjlibre ini left off on my first posts on this topic with this sentence: one of the big discoveries and the genesis of my semi-apostate ways came one day when i decided to look up some of the books cited in the reasoning from the scriptures book (almost 99% of the works cited by the society were available at the universitys library).
the research that was meant to solidify my faith in the jw religion, actually made the first crack on the foundation of my faith.. .
cont..... .
-
-
tjlibre
Thank you all for your comments. It feels so good to talk about this in an open forum, I’ll continue posting as time allows me.
-
10
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 3
by tjlibre indescribing your personality in writing is a challenging task.
they say that body language represents 85% of our communication, obviously you cant see my face as i give this account.
the following might probably make me sound like a prideful person, but ill like to say that im far from that.
-
-
tjlibre
Cont....
How could a person change so suddenly? Isn’t he supposed to be a mature Christian that should be reflecting a Christ like attitude? After so many years of working under his wings, how could he harvest feelings of hatred towards me? Is this the way that a HS appointed person should behave?
My spirit was broken, I dumb down my teaching skills, my talks became doll and dry. I wanted out, I verbally renounced my to my position as a MS. They didn’t let me. I then began to seriously question the validity of the HS works in the Cong. I asked Jehovah to revealed to me the lesson that he was trying to teach me.
What I thought to be his answer came in the form of a new body of elder being form as a result of the suggestion from the CO, a new PO (I’ll call him Org. Man) came to the congregation, changes were made. I later learned that “Sudden Change” elder was blocking my appointment as an elder for many years.
The changes I though would bring about an improvement to the spirit of the BOE, the cong and my shaken confidence in the HS works in the organization, only served as another catalyst that further confirmed to me the need to do a deep soul search and embark on an investigation of the spirit behind the WT organization…
-
10
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 3
by tjlibre indescribing your personality in writing is a challenging task.
they say that body language represents 85% of our communication, obviously you cant see my face as i give this account.
the following might probably make me sound like a prideful person, but ill like to say that im far from that.
-
-
tjlibre
Describing your personality in writing is a challenging task. They say that body language represents 85% of our communication, obviously you can’t see my face as I give this account. The following might probably make me sound like a prideful person, but I’ll like to say that I’m far from that. But I’m a confident individual, I work hard at what I do and I like to learn… having said, that my story continues as follows…..
(I’ll call the elder I was fond of Sudden Change elder)
Remember my father’s background, taking the lead is in my genes. I can’t help it. The skills that I developed as a result of a very inquiring mind, coupled with my secular background and teaching experience (at HS level) gain me the reputation of being good JW cong. teacher. I always strived to give good parts, and my objective always was to show balance and love in my words, even when the material was very hard, I’ll find ways to soften the message. The brothers and sisters showed loved and respect towards me, many viewed me as an elder way before being appointment as such.
It latter became evident to me that instead of seeing me as an asset, some member of the BOE where harvesting negative feelings towards me. I’m not going to portrait my self as a victims, in retrospect I feel that at times I should of tame down the way I used to defend myself when I was right, I cornered older elders many times in some discussions regarding policy and procedures. The duplicity found in the WT publication provides with a weapon that can be used against old procedures and stiff shepherding. Quite too often I used this to my advantage, obviously to the dislike of some elders.
The “Sudden Change” elder became the PO, one day he approached me with a decisions that he made that affected me and my wife. Without going into the details, the decision that he made was intended to make my life unreasonably more difficult with demands far beyond the ones called for in my position as a MS. I had a discussion with him, after supporting that I felt that I had the right to object to his demands, the elder went ballistic to the point I got the feeling that he was going to physically hurt me. This episode broke my heart, I cried and felt terrible because he was the last person I expected a reaction like this toward me. I called another elder, explained he situation, arranged a meeting and I apologized to the elder I was fond of (even dough I was right) I did so hoping that we’ll continue having a good relationship. Boy was I wrong…the years that followed this elder embarked on a personal mission to crush my reputation and spirit, in his position as the PO he felt that he had the power to push me around as much as he could. One night after a MS and elders meeting, some of us were hanging around in the KH parking lot, one of the elders said to me in a playful tone “if I were you I would not stand in from of bro. “Sudden Change’s” car, you know he doesn’t like you too much and could run you over”. It was a known fact to the congregation’s “in-the-known” crowd that this brother actually hated me.
-
10
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 2
by tjlibre ini left off on my first posts on this topic with this sentence: one of the big discoveries and the genesis of my semi-apostate ways came one day when i decided to look up some of the books cited in the reasoning from the scriptures book (almost 99% of the works cited by the society were available at the universitys library).
the research that was meant to solidify my faith in the jw religion, actually made the first crack on the foundation of my faith.. .
cont..... .
-
-
tjlibre
I left off on my first posts on this topic with this sentence: One of the big discoveries and the genesis of my semi-apostate ways came one day when I decided to look up some of the books cited in the “ Reasoning From the Scriptures” book (almost 99% of the works cited by the society were available at the University’s library). The research that was meant to solidify my faith in the JW religion, actually made the first crack on the foundation of my faith.
Cont....
The first thing I noticed was that many of the quotes that the WT cited were taken out of context. In some instances, the source material actually contradicted the WT’s information. I can’t recall specific examples of the misquoted material, but I remember that they were related to the subjects dealing with the trinity, blood, life after death, 1 st century history, etc. In essence, I felt that the WT was being deceptive, therefore, my confidence in the WT began to weaken. However, like many of us did, I placed these things in the “I don’t want to think about it” folder, and moved on. When we were studying the WT interpretation of Daniel’s prophecy, coincidentally I was taking a course on Western Civilization history. I noticed that in one of the chronological tables on the secular book the date for the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians differed from the date set forth by the WT. This prompt me to investigate this date in more detail, I was soon convinced that the date was 586-587 bce and not 607. Again, I placed this in the “don’t think about it too much” folder and moved on. At this point, it was clear to me that the WT was misleading the flock with erroneous information and misquotations. That’s when I first though of leaving, I was free to leave as I still had the chance nurture a non-JW social circle, I was single…at the end, my departure would have been almost unnoticed and a lot less painful. But like I once said to a poster DubR….I didn’t have the courage to leave when I had the chance. To this date, I still ask myself why did I stay. I know that I’ll get the answer soon.
I continued being a very active member of the congregation, which lead to my appointment as a MS a few months before completing my degree. I turned out to be a decent public speaker, which meant that I was going to other congregations to give talks very often. In my travels I made a lot of JW friends who shared a lot my of interest, I later discovered that there were about 7 or 8 of us (JWs) in the same university during the time that I was going, some of us even had some courses together. So my social JW circle was essentially mixed, some hardcore JW, some sincere dedicated JW and some in the middle, or what I used to call “modern JWs” o la nueva guardia (the new guard). By this time, my feelings towards the JW religion were very moderate, I felt that I could continue living the JW lifestyle for a while.
But a confrontation with an elder whom I admired, respected and worked side by side for many years set loose a chain of event that revealed to me the ugly side of the “truth”. This was the catalyst that ignited my dissolution, and that completely changed the way I viewed the “ones taking the lead” in this organization.
-
6
Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...( in the spirit of CANTLEAVE posts)
by tjlibre inin the spirit of cantleaves threads titled why would someone like me leave the "truth"?
i felt motivated to write a mini account on why would someone like me leave the truth.
my father was one of the leaders of the socialist movement party in my country of origin, as such, he was influenced by the marxisms view on religion, karl marx once said religion the opiate of the masses.
-
-
tjlibre
In the spirit of cantleave’s threads titled Why Would Someone Like me Leave the "Truth"? I felt motivated to write a mini account on why would someone like me leave the “truth”.
My father was one of the leaders of the Socialist Movement party in my country of origin, as such, he was influenced by the Marxism’s view on religion, Karl Marx once said “Religion the Opiate of the Masses”. Because of this, religion was not an important subject at home. My father had to leave the country due to three attempts to take his life, to his dismay, the only country where he could be safe from his persecutors was the good’ol USA (he hid himself in Germany, Japan and another Latin American country for a short period of time). So, my mother was left to raise 4 children alone (my father made sure that we had financial support while he was in hiding, when thing cooled down, he kept in touch and provided for all of our financial needs). Even though my father was gone, my mother had no religious inclination. So, in essence I grew up in a home with no religion, free to make my own choice sort of speak.
In my pre-teens years I began to show interest in religious and spiritual matters. I joined the Catholic Church for a while, but the favoritism shown to the children from my town’s well off families made me leave. I then joined a small evangelical church, but I noticed that while the flock had a difficult time making ends meats, the pastor had a nice big house, brand new cars and his kids did not play with the flock’s children.
Fast forward, my father managed to get us out of our country into the USA. I now had to get adjusted to a totally new lifestyle, new language, new people, new society, etc. But above all, I had to get acquaintance with my father, whom I have not seen in person for almost 10 years. One fateful Saturday morning…the JW came knocking at my door. I took “bible” studies twice a week, quickly progressed into the “truth” and against my father wishes…I got baptized before reaching my 18 th birthday.
After high school, I new in my mind that I was going to college…no questions asked. This was important to me, as it was my first act of defiance against my mother’s whishes, see…I’m no referring to my real mother, but to the “Mother Organization”. All the young ones in my KH used to tell me how wrong I was in pursuing a higher education in this “dying system of things”, “there will be no need for lawyers or doctors in the New World”, “you are more interest in material things than putting God’s kingdom first”, “they teach evil thing in college that will make you doubt God”, “there is drugs, alcohol, and lots of immorality in college”…so they said. I soon realized why the WT is so adamant about young JW getting a higher education. They are afraid of JW having access to information, on developing research skills, they are afraid of JW broadening their horizons, on being exposed to new ideas, on developing real critical thinking skills. They are afraid of JW questioning the establishment. What about protection from drugs, sex and alcohol? That’s a façade, based on my own experience, I got offered marijuana only once, never got drunk and the possibility of un-marital sex was present, but not at the pervasive level that the WT likes to picture it.
One of the big discoveries and the genesis of my semi-apostate ways came one day when I decided to look up some of the books cited in the “Reasoning From the Scriptures” book (almost 99% of the works cited by the society were available at the University’s library). The research that was meant to solidify my faith in the JW religion, actually made the first crack on the foundation of my faith.