Posts by tjlibre

15

Did you start out as a "Reformer"?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

how many of you started out down this road as someone who knew there were lots of problems and holes in the doctrine of the religion but wanted to be "part of the solution" as what i would call a "reformer"?.

for a long time, i wanted to be an outstanding elder since i thought so many of them were @$$holes, but i found out after a while the majority of the good ones are chewed up and spitten out in the organization.the others who start out with the right motives either fall in line or get run over.. unfortunately, i kept that delusion up for many years - and just about killed myself doing it.

thats when the light went on and i finally figured out why i was so miserable doing it - it was all for naught - you cant change it.

tjlibre

reposted-fonts too small.

I’ve been on the conscious path for at least a year now. Sometimes I entertain the thought of being an agent of change or reform. But after reading R.F books and the experiences from the posters here, I’ve come to the conclusion that the core problems with the WT/JW religion are way to too ingrained for change. If no significant reform was attained after the 1975 debacle and the 1980 shake-up…I don’t see why they would make any reform now. At least not from the “inside”, if anything, it’ll be as a result of outside pressure, from things like the bad economy, unfavorable government mandates or laws, etc.

The current system is set to do what you said…to “chew up” and “spit out” reformers and to squash the “revolutionary”. Any good work you do towards reform, it’ll get undone by the talks in the assemblies, by CO’s, the publications, etc.

One of the best things that we can do is help others see the truth about the truth…or at least direct them into the path of discovery. Soon they’ll have an empire full of mentally unloyal subjects.

I hear that the coordinators (PO’s) got some sort of ‘top-secret’ information in the elders school about upcoming changes. The CO keeps making references to ‘changes to come’, etc. I don’t know what’s up their sleeves…I only hope it is significant.

15

Did you start out as a "Reformer"?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

how many of you started out down this road as someone who knew there were lots of problems and holes in the doctrine of the religion but wanted to be "part of the solution" as what i would call a "reformer"?.

for a long time, i wanted to be an outstanding elder since i thought so many of them were @$$holes, but i found out after a while the majority of the good ones are chewed up and spitten out in the organization.the others who start out with the right motives either fall in line or get run over.. unfortunately, i kept that delusion up for many years - and just about killed myself doing it.

thats when the light went on and i finally figured out why i was so miserable doing it - it was all for naught - you cant change it.

tjlibre

I’ve been on the conscious path for at least a year now. Sometimes I entertain the thought of being an agent of change or reform. But after reading R.F books and the experiences from the posters here, I’ve come to the conclusion that the core problems with the WT/JW religion are way to too ingrained for change. If no significant reform was attained after the 1975 debacle and the 1980 shake-up…I don’t see why they would make any reform now. At least not from the “inside”, if anything, it’ll be as a result of outside pressure, from things like the bad economy, unfavorable government mandates or laws, etc.

The current system is set to do what you said…to “chew up” and “spit out” reformers and to squash the “revolutionary”. Any good work you do towards reform, it’ll get undone by the talks in the assemblies, by CO’s, the publications, etc.

One of the best things that we can do is help others see the truth about the truth…or at least direct them into the path of discovery. Soon they’ll have an empire full of mentally unloyal subjects.

I hear that the coordinators (PO’s) got some sort of ‘top-secret’ information in the elders school about upcoming changes. The CO keeps making references to ‘changes to come’, etc. I don’t know what’s up their sleeves…I only hope it is significant.

5

Documentary...Has anyone proposed doing a documentary on leaving the JW and life after?

by tjlibre in

jw
friends

i have an idea for a project which i would like create or contribute to in the future.

this is what i have in mind.

present a brief story of the jw movement, who they are, what are their core believes, etc.

tjlibre

I have an idea for a project which I would like create or contribute to in the future.

This is what I have in mind.

Present a brief story of the JW movement, who they are, what are their core believes, etc.

Get a couple of good life stories from the following type of people:

· “Born ins” – what was it like to grow up as a JW, the challenges, the emotions, etc.

· “Converts” – how did you came across the JW, what was your life at that point, what attracted you to the religion, what did you have to give up, your non-JW family reaction, etc.

· “Leaders” – former elders, bethalites, CO, etc. what was your experience serving in that capacity, why did you choose that “privilege”, etc.

· “active members” –who are disillusioned, struggling to stay in. What is keeping you in? or Why can’t you just leave?, etc. of course, for the active members…your identity will be protected.

After presenting life stories (documentary style) we’ll proceed to explain what your turning point was. When did you arrive to your own “crisis of conscience”? What made you leave? Etc. · What was your experience like? When you expressed your doubts? Committed a mistake? etc

· Your DA letter and your JC experience

The shunning experience

· Of course, feelings, emotions, how is your relationship with your JW family? Former friends reaction when they see your? Child custody battles, divorces, etc.

Life after leaving….

· What is your life like? How did you make the transition? What are your fiends like? Did you go to school? Hobbies, etc..

· Did you seek consoling, what helped you recover, etc.

· What is your faith like now? Do you belong to a church?

· If none, what turned you into an atheist, agnostic, etc.

Looking back and forward.
What would make made it an ‘ideal’ or good (not perfect) religion?
Would you go back?

I’d like to include interviews with professionals such as Steve Hassan, and other mental health professionals familiar with the psychological problems that members of the JW religion and other cults suffer.

The documentary will be non-for-profit, and intended for the internet. If a distributor wants to pick it up for tv, sales, etc…then that’s a different story. Promotion will primarily be digital, blogs, xjw cites, facebook, youtube, etc.

My background (what I do for a living) is strong enough to allow me to get this project started from inception to the end, including marketing. I just don’t have the time right now, but I’d like to get things together. Filming, editing, and releasing on-line will take 6 to 9 months.

What are you comments?

15

Did the GB/WT said that the Great Crowd is going to heaven? May 1, 2002 WT - Question From Readers.

by tjlibre in

jw
friends

in the april 15, 2010 wt study article that contains the new interpretation on the generation quagmire...hurgmm..hurgmm ...teaching.

there is a box titled are you keeping up with increased light?

one particular article sparked my interest, the one titled: in which courtyard does the great crowd serve?

tjlibre

Thank you all for your insightful comments

Mary: thanks for your analysis, very thoughtful.

It’s infuriating to see how the WT is determined to continue insulting the “conscious class”. On one hand, they admit that they were wrong, -but as we know, this change might have come as a result of questions and research submitted to the WT from the R&F-. But then on the other hand, they say that they are still correct by stating that the ‘G Crowd’ of Rev 7:9,15 is serving on earthly temple courtyard. And to top it all, they have the nerves to say that the ‘anointed’ (aka the GB) are “perfect & righteous” while they are on earth. WOW!!

I was already baptized when this article was published (May 2002). I don’t remember reading it. It came to my attention because they referred to it in the same watchtower study that contains the ‘overlapping generation’ crap. But now that I’m awakened, I read and analyze this stuff and I can’t help but to truly believe that the WT is provoking an uproar among its thinking members. I strongly believe that they are instigating and looking for an exodus of the “conscious class”.

I can’t help but to feel sorry for the good people that are not aware of all this. The worse part is that WT has inculcated the “earthly hope” and the “two class Christian system” so deep in the minds of the average JW, that the majority would rather keep a veil before their eyes and reject the biblical truth; that according to the book of revelation…real Christians are going to heaven! This is not to say that there is not an earthly hope, but that’s all it is…a hope.

It’ll be interesting to see for how much longer they’ll continue to keep of some of their weak doctrines, 1914, “the two class Christian system”, the FDS, GB, blood, etc.

60

Did you loathe going in field service, if so why?

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i always felt like i was not a "spiritual" person because i loathed going in field service.

i'm not even sure why i loathed it.

i am very outgoing and can talk to anyone, anytime, about anything.

tjlibre

The WT/GB now wants to turn JWs into telemarketers. The CO have been pushing preaching over the phone for the past 2 years now, and there is a supplement in the Feb KM with a script for phone witnessing, telling the JW what to say and how to respond. It will not surprise me if 2 to 5 years from now they’ll ask the JW to make phone-calls asking for donation…for the….drum roll…Borg! (first time I use that term).

15

Did the GB/WT said that the Great Crowd is going to heaven? May 1, 2002 WT - Question From Readers.

by tjlibre in

jw
friends

in the april 15, 2010 wt study article that contains the new interpretation on the generation quagmire...hurgmm..hurgmm ...teaching.

there is a box titled are you keeping up with increased light?

one particular article sparked my interest, the one titled: in which courtyard does the great crowd serve?

tjlibre

In the April 15, 2010 WT study article that contains the new interpretation on the “generation” quagmire...hurgmm..hurgmm …teaching. There is a box titled “Are you keeping up with increased light?”

One particular article sparked my interest, the one titled: In which courtyard does the great crowd serve? (Rev. 7:15)—May 1, 2002, pages 30-31.

I read the article last night and drawn my own conclusion. I’m also doing some additional research on this topic. Let’s discuss this. It’ll be interesting to see if we can come up to the same conclusion as to what is the GB trying to say.

Could someone please post the article here on this thread? I don’t have the WT’s CD-ROM in English in my work computer.

Thanks

TJLibre

176

You Who Have Been on the Board For Awhile - What Are your Concerns ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

well, it's late.

i need to go to sleep, got home from work, but i thought i started a newbie thread why not a thread for those who have been on the board a long time , or for awhile now ?

so, lay it on me, what are your concerns for jwd ?

tjlibre

Well…I’m one of the newbies here. So monito (little monkey) SHAMUS…I hope my opinion matters. LOL

Since I’m fairly new, I don’t know what the spirit of the board was, 5 or 7 years ago. However, from the day I decided to join, I have benefited immensely. When you realize that you gave so much of your time to a corporation the deceived you, it’s hard to figure out where to go for support. In here I have found excellent advice from posters like openmind, onthewayout, cantleave and others. The experiences and comments from posters like alltimejeff, winstonchurchill, paulapollos, inbetween and other former bethelites, elders, co, etc helped me realized that doubts can strike any JW regardless of “privilege” or place in the WT’s hierarchy. And I don’t forget all the others that are walking on this path to recovery, finding out that current and former JW like you exists is comforting…its not such a lonely place after all.

This board provides a channel for me to vent, and that has helped me a lot because I get to rant about the BS that goes on in the org…that’s therapy!! I’ve the opportunity to help others see the truth about the truth by collaborating with people like Randy and Besty –Paul…by the way… guys…I have not forgotten about those translations, the good ones take time and I’m investing most of it in helping me and my wife in getting to know the real message in the Bible and God.

So for now…keep up the good work all of you, don’t leave just because you think you are not moving on…the new ones like me still benefit a lot from the experienced ones.

undercover.

Newbies come in every day with the same exact fears, questions, doubts that we came in with. They need to be able to quickly find serious information by serious people that can help them see the man behind the curtain quicker.

I agree.

60

Did you loathe going in field service, if so why?

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i always felt like i was not a "spiritual" person because i loathed going in field service.

i'm not even sure why i loathed it.

i am very outgoing and can talk to anyone, anytime, about anything.

tjlibre

I say with all honestly that field service is not my thing. I couldn’t figure out why until I began to “wake up”. Then I realized that what I didn’t like was to pressure people; and I no longer want to help promote something I no longer believe in (JW doctrines). That’s why when I now go from door to door I use the bible alone, I don’t offer “bible studies” or place a literature unless the house hold ask for them. If given the option to choose between being a pastor vs. an evangelizer/missionary, I’ll choose pastoral service.

I wouldn’t mind teaching a person how to study the bible using bible commentaries and other tools (non WT’s literature). I’ll gladly provide guidance for a couple of months and make my self available if he/she needs help finding answer to biblical questions. But only if the person solicits the help.

Door to door preaching is not a bad thing, the problem is the stigma that’s attached to it and the “taste aversion’ some of us have developed. The problem is also the manner in which a JW do that service and how its use to judge one’s Christianity. It’s more about placing publications and counting empty hours, than directing people to the bible motivated by pure love and devotion. Its more about using those hours to feel justified before God, while neglecting other thing of more importance such as, visiting the sick, the widows, the orphans, the spiritually weak and depressed or sharing with others.

130

Paulapollos

by minimus in

jw
friends

thank you for joining this site.

your inner knowledge is simply fascinating.

please tell us more!!!!

tjlibre

cattails...

Sounds like a good option. But I wonder if they'll count me in the memorial as an anointed or as a loony... LOL

130

Paulapollos

by minimus in

jw
friends

thank you for joining this site.

your inner knowledge is simply fascinating.

please tell us more!!!!

tjlibre

As I was watching the WCG video, I kept thinking that the possibilities of something like happening in the JW’s religion are slim….veeeery slim. If by this point no significant change has been made, it is highly unlikely that there will be ANY in the near future. If anything, they are getting worse, more cultic, more demanding, more dictatorial. Look at the new so called “light” on the “generation” teaching, they already locked this illogic (and insulting) interpretation for the next 20-100 years.

It seems that the only options lefts for the conscious class are limited to leaving by fading, DF/DA, stay captive, play undercover apostate, or die in it. That’s it.