Something that was said at the meeting yesterday made me think about this. You know how the organization is always using the illustration of the broken mold and how Adam could only pass on imperfection to his children because now he was imperfect. How do they rationalize the fact that a perfect Creator made people who were capable of making an imperfect choice? If Jehovah is indeed a perfect God, he could only have made a creation in his image that would always make perfect, pure decisions just like he would. The fact that Adam, and also Satan, were capable of making choices that were the wrong ones indicates that they could not have been perfect to begin with, so their whole illustration falls apart. Jehovah would also have to be a broken mold. Believing as I do that the Garden of Eden story is just that, a story, I don't put much stock in it to begin with, but now that this thought occurred to me, I can't reconcile the whole JW version of it. It's making my head spin.
WalkTall
JoinedPosts by WalkTall
-
7
How Can Jehovah be Perfect If We Aren't?
by WalkTall insomething that was said at the meeting yesterday made me think about this.
you know how the organization is always using the illustration of the broken mold and how adam could only pass on imperfection to his children because now he was imperfect.
how do they rationalize the fact that a perfect creator made people who were capable of making an imperfect choice?
-
-
-
5
Woman Pastor - Awake
by Lady Viola inin the latest km i read something about the latest awake topic: 'what does god think of women pastors' or something like that.
i asked for the latest awake, but it wasn't available yet (dutch) in our hall.
who has seen this awake and want to upload it for us all?
-
-
WalkTall
Lady Viola, can you expound on what Paul meant about women being quiet? What is the history of that statement?
-
19
To Anyone at Bethel-Please pick up Ray's Torch
by WalkTall ini did not think it was possible to grieve for someone you have never met.
but i feel such an overwhelming sadness at the loss of ray.
i did receive kind replies to two emails that i sent him, but i never had the pleasure to meet the man.
-
-
WalkTall
I did not think it was possible to grieve for someone you have never met. But I feel such an overwhelming sadness at the loss of Ray. I did receive kind replies to two emails that I sent him, but I never had the pleasure to meet the man. I guess the feeling of sadness is for what we have all lost.
I only hope that there is someone, higher up on the Bethel food chain, maybe even on the GB, who will examine their heart, as Ray did, and come to terms with the fact that they are not some special messengers of God. Admit to themselves, what they have to know deep down inside, that the thirst for domination over other people's lives is spiraling out of control. Have the courage to stand up for all the people who are in pain, all the people whose lives are being shattered by mere men whose egos have gone wild. Thirty years ago a middle aged man did just that. He went through hardships because of it, but he was able to die with a clean conscience and a pure heart that he did what he could. You can too. To anyone at Bethel that might be here and reading this, the torch can be passed.
-
116
Would Witnesses REALLY drink the "Kool-aid" if the faithful slave told them to? Yes or no?
by Witness 007 ina "spiritual leader" tells his followers the must put on rebok running shoes and "drink the cool-aid" to join a ufo in the tail of a comet and "go to a better world" so, afew dozen young people do just that to get "beamed up" to the mothership.
heavens gate cult 1990's.. my mother says "she is faithful to the organisation till her death" which makes me wonder if they ordered a mass suicide like the reverend jim jones did to escape a "great tribulation"....how many witnesses would really drink the cool-aid?...
without a gun pointed at their head of course!.
-
-
WalkTall
Mind control is so powerful and so dangerous. What else could make a mother walk right past her young adult crying disfellowshipped daughter without even a glance? I've seen it happen. What is stronger than that mother-child bond, but the WT manages to break it. That is the kind of thing that convinces me that there would be some, especially the older JW's, who would obey the Society no matter what they asked them to do.
I saw a documentary on Jonestown, and in it they interviewed Jim Jones, Jr, the adopted son of the cult leader. He was not at the commune on the day of the massacre so escaped death. When asked if he would have drank along with the others, he replied " Yes I would have. I drank the Kool-Aid long before it was served". I think that applies to many Witnesses as well.
-
116
Would Witnesses REALLY drink the "Kool-aid" if the faithful slave told them to? Yes or no?
by Witness 007 ina "spiritual leader" tells his followers the must put on rebok running shoes and "drink the cool-aid" to join a ufo in the tail of a comet and "go to a better world" so, afew dozen young people do just that to get "beamed up" to the mothership.
heavens gate cult 1990's.. my mother says "she is faithful to the organisation till her death" which makes me wonder if they ordered a mass suicide like the reverend jim jones did to escape a "great tribulation"....how many witnesses would really drink the cool-aid?...
without a gun pointed at their head of course!.
-
-
WalkTall
There is constant praise and biblical comparisons heaped on those who have died for their faith, whether it be because of the blood doctrine or political reasons. They become the organization's modern day martyrs. Also, I am still in and I can attest to the fact that there has been a lot of emphasis in the past few years about being loyal and submissive to the organization even when they ask you to do something you don't agree with or understand. So, while I agree that I don't think they would ever do something as radical as asking people to drink the Kool-Aid, I do believe that there are many who, though conflicted would ultimately do it.
-
25
The Wedding Talk-A Humiliation to Women
by WalkTall init is so strange how you look at things so differently when your eyes are open.
i recently went to a witness wedding and listening to the talk with the constant emphasis on the bride having a 'head' and being submissive to her head was painful to listen to.
and how the bride has to say 'deeply respect' while the groom does not, is the epitome of misogyny.
-
-
WalkTall
It is so strange how you look at things so differently when your eyes are open. I recently went to a Witness wedding and listening to the talk with the constant emphasis on the bride having a 'head' and being submissive to her head was painful to listen to. And how the bride has to say 'deeply respect' while the groom does not, is the epitome of misogyny. It made me think about all the 'worldly' relatives that came to my own wedding many years ago. What they must have thought about me that I would submit to such a blatant degradation of my gender. I am embarassed now just thinking about it.
-
14
Where's Shawn Colton and Goldensky?
by awildflower ini haven't heard from them in a while.
i've missed paulfromcleavland too but he said he was going on a trip.
hello to you all if your reading this.
-
-
WalkTall
Hey awildflower, I am still here. Just haven't been to the board to much lately. When I have my alone time, I have been reading COC. I'm loving it and can't wait to start in on Ray's second book. I check in on the board quickly when I can. When I can't for a while, I realize how much I miss all my friends here. Strange I feel that way...I don't know any of you personally (except you, awildflower, of course), but I consider all here my friends.
-
13
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-18-10 (SWORD OF THE SPIRIT)
by blondie inskillfully wield "the sword of the spirit" .
understand the meaning of a scripture correctly, we should consider background information, such as who wrote the.
then, explain the meaning of that part of the.
-
-
WalkTall
Context is becoming a big issue lately (could it be as a response to what's written on this board and others?). It is featured in this article and during our last CO visit he mentioned in one of his talks about the dangers of taking scriptures out of context. Of course, it's all a smokescreen. There could be no WT doctrine without cherry picking scriptures out of context.
Also, if the JW's stopped for one second to consider the real history and actual 'real time' intentions of the bible writers, the fantasy applications of the WT would seem ludicrous. Even in this article, when it keeps talking about Paul handling the 'word of truth', the WT wants to make the false association that it is the same Bible that is sitting on their laps. But what did it mean to Paul? What was he really referring to? They quoted Gal 5:13 where Paul spoke about being freed from the Law. The gospels hadn't been written yet. He couldn't have been referring to his own letters. So what was the 'word' that he was talking about? I can guarantee that not one person in the KH asked themselves those questions, while at the same time they were raising their hands commenting how advantageous it is to study the history and background of a scripture. Most of them don't have a clue. They are trained to stop thinking things through.
-
72
Jehovah's Witnesses---A Religion That Does Nothing For Anyone
by minimus inthe reality is: jehovah's witnesses benefit no one but themselves!.
they don't contribute to society.
they refuse to get involved in local interests because that would constitute violating their neutrality.. if sexual abuse allegations are made amongst their members, unless two witnesses can attest to the molestation, they refuse to get the "superior authorities" involved.. they claim to be doing their neighbors a "life saving" work but the reality is that they simply are pests to their "householders".. they are a tax free "religion" and they do not pay taxes.. they are judgmental people and regard the "world" as "worldly" and in the "power of the wicked one".. and if the individual members do not conform to the organization's dictates, they might very well be "shunned" and regarded as "dead".. why anyone would want to be a jehovah's witness is beyond me..
-
-
WalkTall
I know of a young brother once who wanted to help out Habitat for Humanity. He was told by an elder that he would have to do research first to make sure there was no religious affiliation. Who else, but JW's would care about that? Even if it was associated with a church, it is the poor and disadvantaged that benefit from this volunteer work, not the church.
I think it is that mentality that many are speaking against here. Yes, many JW's contribute to other charities, but it is not encouraged, and if too much time were to be spent in volunteer activities, you would be considered spiritually weak. It is one of those subliminal thoughts that the Society plants into our heads. I remember the first time I gave $20 to a cancer drive, I actually felt guilty about it. Part of me knew it was ridiculous to feel like I had done something wrong, but it is just one of their many mind games.
-
43
What Actually Helped You Leave The Organization?
by minimus inafter seeing some threads about how some think that being direct (like danny hazzard) is the best way to get people out of "the truth" or being very subtle is most effective----i was wondering what exactly made you leave the organization??.
were you more impressed by websites that were informational?
what really got you thinking to leave the religion and its mindset?.
-
-
WalkTall
No wonder they hate Ray Franz. Knowing how many people he has helped leave the organization, they must regret the way they treated him and wish they had a do over. Too late now!!