WT disfellowshipping/shunning is extreme, unbiblical, unethical, cultic. Biblical discipline is lacking in true churches, but the Bible does not teach the WT destructive practice. We are to love God supremely, but God does not destroy the family unit (but cults do). The blood transfusion fiasco, child abuse cover-up, disfellowshipping, etc. are sufficient reason to pray that this religion is exposed with mass exodus. I would give my arm to see the day where it becomes as inconsequential as Christian Science has become (another cult).
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
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172
re-enforcing the shunning of immediate family - WT 7-15-11
by undercover injuly 15th wt study edition (regular dumb edition, not the dumber one).
god's rest - have you entered into it?.
subheading, when someone we love leaves jehovah.
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Have a good Easter weekend.
by tec ini'm going to my parents for this long weekend, along with my boys, my aunt and her twin boys (same age as my oldest), and our pup.
will be a busy and bustling weekend, seeing as the basement recently flooded, so that area is now off-limits.
so for the next five days, the four and a half hour drive tomorrow is going to be the only quiet time i think i'm going to get, lol.. however, my mother is going to have a big pot of homemade chili waiting for us... and that alone would be worth the drive and the craziness :).
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godrulz
He is risen! He is risen indeed (not the same as WT recreation/Michael nonsense).
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Couple of questions for the Christians here - CO's talk mentioned some things that I want to understand
by Doubting Bro inthis is a question for all the christians on the board.
i sat through the first co talk last night which was basically a plea to not give up preaching.
one of his main points was that no one else had "the truth" and every other person that claims to be christian is in error.
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godrulz
Who do you say Jesus Christ is?
Where did you get those ideas?
Have you considered what He said and claimed about Himself?
What is your preferred Bible version?
Are you a Russellite or something? Do you affiliate with any formal group? What are your influences and beliefs on essential doctrine? Why would you still identify with the WT if they are so corrupt/wrong?
I am from Canada. Where are you from?
How do you do quotes? How does one do a profile? Do you have to have so many posts to get more privileges?
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I was FORCED to go to the MemorialÂ…
by Yan Bibiyan ini am about 2 days late and at least $2 short to the party, but here is my story.. who forced me to go?.
well, i forced myself...why?
the keep your enemies closer thingy.... first off, a brief background.
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godrulz
As a non-JW who went to the Memorial to pray for the people and be a witness, it was one of the sadest, most grievous, most unbiblical belief/practice I have ever seen.
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Works- question for xtians
by LV101 ini'm confused.
dr. chas.
stanley says there's absolutely nothing we can do to earn life and it's all thru acceptance of the grace of the christ and repenting of our sins.
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godrulz
Faith is the root and works are the fruit. Paul in Romans is talking about justification and the grounds of grace and condition of faith. Eph. 2:8-10 shows the relationship between faith and works. Faith is how we receive grace. Salvation is grace through faith apart from works (Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16; Rom. 1:16; Eph. 2:8-10; I Jn. 5:11-13; Titus 3:5; Rom. 4-5). When Jesus was asked in John about the workS needed for eternal life, He said the worK of God was to believe.
James is talking about practical Christian living post-conversion. He was responding to an objection and contrasted true faith (trust in Christ that bears fruit as He lives in us) with devil's 'faith' that is mere mental assent and dead. True faith normatively produces the fruit of works, but works cannot get us one inch closer to a holy God's standard of perfection. So, Paul deals with justification and James deals with the nature of faith and practical living. Paul was not anti-works and James was not anti-faith. Both knew that salvation was grace/faith alone. Cults like JWs and Mormons have faith plus works, the Galatian heresy that Paul said leads to anathema/eternally condemned (Judaizer heresy).
All the WT works are useless and add nothing to Christ's shed blood. Christians know they have eternal life now based on Christ's work for us. Cultists never have assurance and will never earn their way to God. An athlete and a drunk will still fall into the canyon (chasm between holy God and sinful man only bridged by the cross/not torture stake nonsense) despite one doing better than the other. The thief on the cross did no works and was saved through simple trust in Christ.
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Couple of questions for the Christians here - CO's talk mentioned some things that I want to understand
by Doubting Bro inthis is a question for all the christians on the board.
i sat through the first co talk last night which was basically a plea to not give up preaching.
one of his main points was that no one else had "the truth" and every other person that claims to be christian is in error.
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godrulz
Gnosticism was a heresy, not Christian in any sense.
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Did You Tend To Question The Organization Or Did You Just WANT To Believe?
by minimus ini know some who always questioned the elders, the society, and others because they were typically skeptical.. there are those who just seemed to want to believe whatever they were told.. i was more a skeptic, during my last decade.. .
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godrulz
I rejoice with those who have found freedom from a manmade organization that is not Christian, but cultic. Some find true freedom in the true Christ and come to know His love and grace. Others seems bitter and throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because the WT is not God's organization does not mean that there is no God or that there are not God-honoring churches/leaders based on Scripture. Satan will take us whether reprobate or religious. The paramount thing is to know the truth about God and know Him personally through Jesus Christ (otherwise one is now a worldly sinner instead of a religious sinner; we need to be converted sinners, saints). I wonder how many ex-JWs understand the simplicity of the true gospel, the power of God (Rom. 1:16)? The hardest hurdle will likely be to confess that Jesus is Lord God Almighty (YHWH). One does not have to confess or understand the trinity, but one has to trust the true Jesus to be saved (Jn. 3:16; Gal. 1:6-10; Rom. 10:9-10; 2 Cor. 11:4; Jude 3; I Jn. 5:11-13). I imagine there is a reluctance to not get burned again, but the truth is out there. Do not give up.
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Couple of questions for the Christians here - CO's talk mentioned some things that I want to understand
by Doubting Bro inthis is a question for all the christians on the board.
i sat through the first co talk last night which was basically a plea to not give up preaching.
one of his main points was that no one else had "the truth" and every other person that claims to be christian is in error.
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godrulz
Can't leave/won't leave: I am not Catholic, etc. Unlike JWs, I have nuanced views that are from personal study and convictions even if they disagree with my denominational traditions. My beliefs in Deity of Christ, Trinity, etc. are rooted in Scripture, not the blind following of tradition, creeds, etc.
Quoting verses does not negate the need to interpret them in context. I do not prefer KJV, though the WT used to favor it. Tell me you are not using NWT? The fact that you were deceived by WT gives you little credibility to pick a fight with me (who can clearly see it is false based on Scripture).
Truth does not run from error. I will defend and proclaim truth, while JWs and many ex-JWs who have not become Christians remain in error/darkness.
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Couple of questions for the Christians here - CO's talk mentioned some things that I want to understand
by Doubting Bro inthis is a question for all the christians on the board.
i sat through the first co talk last night which was basically a plea to not give up preaching.
one of his main points was that no one else had "the truth" and every other person that claims to be christian is in error.
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godrulz
God is a responsible moral governor of the universe. He gives laws that show His holy standard based on His righteous character. The Law condemns us as sinners in need of a sinless Savior since God's holy standard is perfection and we all fall short of this glory (Rom. 3:23). Law without penalty/sanctions would be suggestion and lead to lawlessness, no justice, no deterrence, etc. This is based on biblical principles, not proof texts. God freely wants to forgive since He is full of grace and mercy, but this would undermine His law and rulership/governorship if he let Hitler off scott free to kill with impunity. By substituting Christ for the penalty of sin He can uphold His law, show His great love, show the awfulness of sin, etc. The issues are not to appease His anger with animal blood to make Him willing to forgive (retributive justice), but to make it wise to forgive repentant sinners without compromising justice/holiness for love/mercy/grace (public justice). These principles are also seen in human government, law, justice, courts. There is a time to be lenient and a time to be harsh. God is the perfect Judge, Sovereign, ruler and issues of sin and righteousness are moral (hence moral government principles). The balancing scales of Adam/human Jesus is the WT manmade doctrine that is not rooted in Scripture nor church history. It is not the issue in a holy God providing redemption. These issues are somewhat technical and the WT simply has a simplistic view that does not stand up to scrutiny. Charles Finney (Systematic Theology) and Albert Barnes (The Atonement) develop this from Scripture. To be honest, most Christians are not familiar with this view and hold to a penal substitutionary view that has some merit, but not the full story. Books on JWs refute the WT view in more detail. This is above the average person's interest, so the important thing is to trust the true vs counterfeit Jesus for eternal life, to know He died in our place, to know we are sinners/lawbreakers who cannot save ourselves, etc. His sacrifice was perfect provision, but it must be received by faith. It is based on grace, not works. JWs are wasting endless time and still have no hope because they have not received His gift by grace/faith alone. True believers are born again when they receive Jesus (Jn. 1:12; I Jn. 5:1, etc.) and it is not limited to 144K. The WT is lying and ripping people off.
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Couple of questions for the Christians here - CO's talk mentioned some things that I want to understand
by Doubting Bro inthis is a question for all the christians on the board.
i sat through the first co talk last night which was basically a plea to not give up preaching.
one of his main points was that no one else had "the truth" and every other person that claims to be christian is in error.
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godrulz
There is no way the WT is truth given their founder, history, unbiblical beliefs and practices. They are a manmade organization with the blind leading the blind. It is not hard to document there misquoting of credible sources, changing their documents/dates to cover false prophecies, flip flops of doctrine supposedly under the direction of Jehovah, straw man misrepresentations (especially the trinity), etc. They lack sound scholarship and critical thinking skills. They go high and low to find obscure sources (even Greber, a Catholic spiritist) to agree with their odd views.
1) Even in Christianity, there are several views of the nature of the atonement/sacrifice of Christ (Moral Government, Substitutionary, Christus Victor, literal payment, moral influence, etc.). The WT view of balancing the scales is a wrong view and not an argument against the Deity of Christ (begging the question on their part). Christ's death was a substitute for the penalty of death, not an exchange of a perfect human life for a fallen Adam. It satisfies public vs retributive justice and allows a holy God to wisely forgive repentant sinners. He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission. The issues are governmental, not personal for God (God wants to freely forgive, but cannot wisely do so if His law is undermined...love, justice, mercy, holiness are all issues).
2) I have never heard this theory on Adam's motivation except somewhat from Mormonism, another large pseudo-Christian cult like the WT. Adam had free will and was tempted to sin, contrary to God's will/intentions/purposes. He was intended to live on earth forever and did not do this to get to heaven. There is no biblical or logical evidence for this false straw man.
3) It begs the question to assume the wrong WT view of balancing human life scales. The issue is reconciliation of holy God and sinful man. He is the perfect mediator because He is the God-Man, one person with two natures. Some say the offense is so vast that only God could 'pay' the price. A mere angel or man cannot atone for the sins of the world, but the one who is God and Man can. The overpayment theory against deity of Christ is a lame WT argument that really does not make sense (counter-cult ministries have responded to this point in greater detail).
As pointed out, most churches focus on Good Friday (when we have communion in addition to other times of the year)/death AND Easter/resurrection (which is bodily, not recreation of spirit creature Michael?!). The WT is Pharisaical in their Memorial and loopy in their fear of pagan Christmas, Easter, birthdays, etc. They do not know the reality of the incarnation, Deity, death, resurrection of the true Christ, but substitute a vapid, dead religion in its place with endless false doctrines and unbiblical practices.
JW pseudo-scholarship is rank amateurism and parroting organizational thinking is no excuse for not searching out the truth with the Holy Spirit (who is personal vs active force?!) and the Word (a credible version, unlike the sectarian NWT that is universally panned by people who can actually translate).
Where do you go if the WT is not the truth? There are 1000s of Christ-centered, Bible-believing churches, but the real issue is coming to a person, not an organization for life (Jn. 3:16; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12).
Jn. 5:39-40 may be heard by JWs on judgment day (when even they will confess that Jesus is Jehovah, but too late Phil. 2:5-11). They diligently search Scriptures (NWT perversion, especially on the Deity of Christ verses)....which is actually more searching WT literature superimposed on Scripture leading to twisting and destruction) thinking they will earn eternal life hopefully, yet they refuse to come to Him, Jesus, for life (like Pharisees, reject the Deity of Christ, and follow a false, counterfeit, worthless jesus).
The Truth will set free, but the WT will drag one to the lake of fire (they can deny it, but they are also wrong on soul and hell). In light of the wealth of info available (no wonder they indoctrinate and mind control so people don't look outside the organization), it is a wonder that they do not implode or that they attract even gullible, ignorant people. There is no excuse in this day and age to be deceived by the kingdom of the cults (shows the power of demonic deception and sinfulness of men).