It seems you have a good heart and mind. There are many Messianic Jews who understand that Jesus is God, Messiah, Lord, Savior, King. The OT hints at the Deity of the Messiah (Is. 9:6 with Is. 10:21), but we do need progressive revelation of the NT to fully understand God and His ways. Is. 53 is Messianic. Jesus gives fuller revelation because He is the reality of the shadows/types of the OT (Heb. 1:1-3). The gospel is foolishness to Gentiles and a stumbling block for Jews. You did well to see Jesus as the Messiah, but did not go far enough to see that He claimed to be God in the flesh and rose from the dead to prove these claims. The book of Romans and Hebrews will help your understanding. Paul was the prototypical Jew who became one of the greatest Christians. There is nothing incompatible about Pauline Christianity and Judaism. The OT simply does not fully develop the doctrine of God, soteriology (salvation), eschatology (end times), etc. God bless in your faith journey. I pray that you will come to know Jesus, Messiah, Lord God Almighty, Prince of Peace, King of kings, Lord of lords, the Alpha/Omega, Beginning/End, First/Last.
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
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45
"and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
by Chalam inhi jwners!.
i had the opportunity to speak to a witness aquaintaince today.
the lord had put him on my heart some years ago.
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Struggling
by anniegirl76 ini have been df-ed for almost 9 years.
just out of curiosity, has anyone decided to find another religion or belief after being jw?
i struggle with my feelings, my mom and brother, aunt, cousins are all jw.
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godrulz
Unitarianism is even less truth than JW, though they both deny the trinity, Deity of Christ, etc. Diametrically opposed, mutually exclusive views are not equally true, salvific. Jesus is the narrow way, not Buddha, Muhammad, WT, etc. JWs have uniformity, not unity. Unitarians may have luv, but they lack truth. They compromise doctrine for the sake of acceptance and tolerance. True believers should be loving and accepting (we defend freedom of religion, etc.), but not at the expense of truth/God's Word. JWs are not all wrong, but are wrong in their translation and interpretation of Scripture. They are modern Pharisees who reject the true identity of Christ. They are authoritarian like the Catholic and Mormon church (ironically). True churches emphasize the autonomy of the local church, priesthood of believers, supremacy of Scripture, etc.
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"and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
by Chalam inhi jwners!.
i had the opportunity to speak to a witness aquaintaince today.
the lord had put him on my heart some years ago.
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godrulz
Modalism/Sabellianism/oneness/Jesus only is the heresy that Jesus is God who steps into the modes or offices of Father (OT), Son (earth), Spirit (Church Age). It says that there is only one person in the Godhead, so Jesus is the Father as to person, not just nature. JWs make the mistake of confusing modalism and trinitarianism (they think if they refute modalism, that they are refuting trinity, but they are not). For a JW, when they hear us say that Jesus is God, they think we are saying Jesus is the Father. They ask us why would Jesus pray to Himself, how can He send Himself, etc. Modalism is wrong. Trinitarians are strict monotheists and agree that God is one in nature. The question is if He is a solitary being (Unitarian, JW, Islam, Judaism) or a compound unity (like one cluster of grapes, one army, one family with many members). We must rely on revelation, not raw reason. WT publications have said that we cannot understand all about God, yet they criticize us for not being able to understand the trinity. Arianism=JW....Christ as creature vs Creator God. This is a condemned heresy early in church history along with modalism.
Jewish people are wrong about who the Messiah is, so why appeal to them? The Bible is progressive revelation. The OT shows us that there is only one true God (Deut. 6:4 Shema). It hammers away at monotheism in the face of pagan polytheism. The trinity is hinted at in the OT, as well as the Deity of the Messiah (Is. 9:6 cf. Is. 10:21 one true God and many false gods). Jesus is God with a face (should blow your mind and lead to worship of Him Rev. 4-5; Heb. 1:6, etc.). Heb. 1:1-3 Jesus is the full and final revelation of God. He claimed to be God and has the names and titles of God (Alpha and Omega, etc.). He is worshipped and honored as God (Jn. 20:28 Jews only worship one God). Numbers just shows that God is not fickle like men. It is not a proof text to preclude the incarnation, God becoming man in Christ, the invisible made visible (Jn. 14:9; Jn. 1:1-14; Phil. 2:5-11).
Trinitarians also have one God, YHWH (Jehovah is a name we use, but JWs are wrong to make a big issue of it in light of uncertainty about the best transliteration). The trinity is also indivisible since there is only one spirit nature of God. Personal distinctions within this one God are fully unified and fully diverse. There are not 3 gods.
Jesus worshipped the Father, not Himself. He was also worshipped as God by the early church. Jesus is equal with the Father, but not the Father. As the God-Man (one person with two natures), He would worship the Father (modalism might say He worshipped himself, but that is false since Jesus is not the Father despite sharing the same eternal essence).
Jews and JWs (modern Pharisees) are wrong about the identify of Jesus (Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10:30-33). The Scriptures testify about Him yet they refuse to come to Him for life (trusting WT indoctrination/error instead). Unless you believe that 'I AM', you will perish in your sins (Jn. 8:58 is Jehovahistic identity).
It is telling that the NWT twists all the Deity of Christ verses (there are about 40, but only 6 typical Arian verses that we can readily answer Rev. 3:14; Jn. 14:28; Col. 1:15, etc.). The WT booklet about the Word, who is He according to John? is correct to observe that the correct translation of Jn. 1:1 means our salvation. The NWT 'a god' fiasco is indefensible grammatically, theologically, contextually (as any Gk. scholar of note as reminded the non-scholastic, rationalistic WT). Jn. 1:1 refutes modalism, Arianism, polytheism and is consistent with the triune view alone.
I appreciate this is hard for a JW to understand (just as it was hard for for Jews and Muslims to understand, to their eternal peril), but many have come to this biblical view by just reading the Bible. The WT puts up straw man caricatures of it and knocks it down (I would also reject those views such as 3-headed god, 3 gods in 1 god, Father is the Son modalism, etc.).
I would die for these beliefs and know that it is a salvific (essential doctrine for salvation) issue. It is the crux of the matter. I may not be popular here for defending it, but it is truth, Truth that sets free. Many JWs deep down know that Jesus is greater than the WT will ever admit or teach.
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The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Pantheism blurs the distinction (ontological) between Creator and creation. Pantheism and Arianism (JW) are both fatal errors. The triune understanding is NOT pantheistic (nor panentheism). It is strictly monotheistic. BTW, JWs are not wrong about everything (they are right to see that Creator/creation is distinct, but wrong to reduce Jesus to Michael or mere man).
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The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Romans 1 says that this guy is without excuse for suppressing truth. Jesus claimed to be God and progressively revealed a triune understanding. This guy does not know what he is talking about, typical atheistic nonsense (though he is articulate). The incarnation, Deity, death, resurrection of Christ is the power of God. The Trinity does NOT teach that there are 3 gods in 1 (that would be Mormonism, tritheism). The triune understanding is based on revelation, not raw reason. He is in the dark and fails to distinguish nature vs personal distinction. 3 gods in 1 god is a contradiction as is 3 persons in 1 person. 3 personal distinctions in one nature/essence/substance of God. The Bible does teach the trinity. He is wrong about church history. Formalization of the details later in church history in response to heresies like Arianism does not mean that is when it was invented. What is worse than hell/lake of fire? He does not understand the holiness of God, the biblical understanding of hell/Satan, etc. He is a mocker, scoffer, that God will judge in the end. Even if there was no Satan, there could still be a loving God that would be winsome. The fact that he concludes that Satan is our Savior (non sequitur logical fallacy) shows that he lacks any credibility to pontificate about anything religious.
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HELP! How do I FADE without being DF'D??
by doubtful ini'm in a tough position.
i gave my last talk as an ms a couple of weeks ago, and i haven't been out in field service in well over a month.
i "came out" to the closest people in my life...namely my gf and mother...i was also recently asked to step down from being a servant - largely because my heart was no longer in it and i couldn't stomach going from door to door peddling magazines and other literature full of lies and logical fallacies.
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godrulz
I am not in this boat, but I would be tempted to go back and give them the truth. Disfellowshipping would be a consequence of my initial wrong choices, and those who shun would be accountable before God. This is a big price to pay, but I would fear God, not man. If friends and family do not know that you have renounced a lie, then they have no hope of coming out either. Perhaps if one remains agnostic, it is pragmatic to not shoot oneself in the foot. I think if a JW becomes a true Christian, they should not be silent, despite the cost (come out of the closet and those who shun would be in the wrong vs white lies on our part).
Mormons (another cult) do not shun to this degree. A former Mormon who becomes a true Christian should demand that their names be taken off a role, since they count everyone and their dog for stats. It would allow one to break with the lie and exalt the truth. Error runs from truth. God would strengthen those who take a stand against corrupt organizations. One would not be in this pickle if they had done their homework before being deceived. Cultists are victims, but do have responsibility vs excuses.
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45
"and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
by Chalam inhi jwners!.
i had the opportunity to speak to a witness aquaintaince today.
the lord had put him on my heart some years ago.
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godrulz
fact: Jesus is not the Father, but He is Jehovah by nature. You are refuting modalism, not trinitarianism. Arianism, your view, is heretical.
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45
"and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
by Chalam inhi jwners!.
i had the opportunity to speak to a witness aquaintaince today.
the lord had put him on my heart some years ago.
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godrulz
Designs: you are making the wrong assumption that all spirituality/religion is false. The false cults do not disprove the genuine, biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity. JWs are no further ahead if they leave the organization but do not find the true Christ/gospel, the power of God (Rom. 1:16). Using your logic, counterfeit money negates the possibility of genuine currency.
JWs get there name from Isaiah and Rutherford. Acts 1:8 shows that we are to be witnesses of Jesus (who is Jehovah). Counter-cult ministries are bearing fruit as many former JWs, Mormons, Muslims, etc. are coming to a saving knowledge in Christ, the only hope for eternal life.
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What's The Most Effective Way To Reach JWs About "The Truth"?
by minimus inand which ways are in your view, ineffective?
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godrulz
Ultimately, they must hear the true gospel and embrace the true Christ. We need to speak the truth in love. Every person is individual in what will work. The Holy Spirit alone can convict and convince through the Word of God (properly translated and interpreted). Too many people do nothing to reach them. We should be prepared to give an answer for the hope in us (Peter), but arguing mind-to-mind will not work (though truth/sound doctrine is vital). A question approach from Scripture would be good. Force them to read verses in context apart from WT pat answers. Love and patience will also be needed. 2 Tim. 2:24-26 is a good model (pray, pray, pray since it is spiritual warfare/deception).
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80
Struggling
by anniegirl76 ini have been df-ed for almost 9 years.
just out of curiosity, has anyone decided to find another religion or belief after being jw?
i struggle with my feelings, my mom and brother, aunt, cousins are all jw.
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godrulz
Jesus said that our love for Him was to be supreme to the point that we 'hate' our families. He does not mean to hate their guts since the Decalogue also says to love parents (as does Paul in NT). Compared to our good love for family, our love for God must be supreme (we love God, family, friends, enemies, but God supremely, even to the point of losing friends and family). The true Jesus (the Arian Christ is a false one and cannot save; sound doctrine does matter) alone can heal and make whole. It is natural to feel the pain of rejection, loneliness, etc., but only God (true one) in the end can wipe away tears. The answer is not to throw out true faith in God and become anti-religion. One must reject false, controlling religion and come to Christ alone (His burden/yoke is light/easy vs slavery of WT). It takes time, but knowing Him alone will lead to ultimate freedom. Baptists are trinitarians. One cannot be an Arian Christian. One does not have to understand the trinity fully to be saved, but one cannot deny the Deity of Christ (Jesus is Jehovah) and be saved (2 Cor. 11:4; Jude 3; Jn. 3:16; Gal. 1:6-10; I Jn. 5:11-13; Rom. 10:9-10; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom. 1:16; I Cor. 1:18, etc.).