JeffT

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Posts by JeffT

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  3121

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  JeffT

  Slim, where do you get the information that he's sold thousands of books?

  He's ranked 86th in books about Jehovah's Witnesses and 67,000 and change in biographies.

  For a comparison William Schnell's "Thirty Years a Watchower Slave" is 9th.
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  3121

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  JeffT

  I think that book displays his ignorance of how to go about being a successful author. Publishers guidelines exist for a reason. A memoir should be about 80,000 words, that's well under 400 pages. No one outside the JW or XJW communities (and probably a good number inside that community) wants to read 800 pages about Jehovah's Witnesses. He seriously needs an editor to take an axe to that monster.

  There is a cure for ignorance: research, education and hard work. My first published book was the second one I wrote (and has nothing to do with JW's). I suspect that Lloyd made a rookie mistake, one I will confess to making myself. When you get your manuscript done, don't wrap it up an start trying to sell it. It isn't ready by a long shot.

  And even if you do manage to get something sold, odds are you won't come close to selling enough to live on. That's just how it is.
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  194

  GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!

  the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.

  summary: .

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  JeffT

  I think a good analog for the collapse of the Watchtower is the fall of the World Wide Church of God. Founded in 1933, (with a different name) by Herbert W. Armstrong the WWCG shared a lot of theology with the Witnesses. Armstrong's followers believed the end of the world was imminent, and did not believe the Trinity. They also believed in a number of old testament laws (such as keeping the Sabbath) were still required of Christians. Mainstream churches thought WWCG was a cult.

  Through the sixties and seventies the church grew rapidly. I can't find the numbers now, but I recall that it was roughly equal to the witnesses, and many of us believed that Armstrong was stealing most of his stuff from us. Following Armstrong's death in 1986 the church hit some hard times. His son took charge for a time but eventually amid a scandal church leaders disfellowshipped him.
  

  Church leaders then set about trying to "mainstream" the church. This led to numerous splinter groups forming. In 1997 the church was recognized by the National Association of Evangelicals. It has about 30,000 members.

  I think trying to mainstream the Watchtower would have similar results. The super hard core JW's will form their own groups that still reject the trinity, hell fire etc. Back in the day I knew some elders that would love to install themselves as the new GB. Others will wonder off and do nothing, or find some other church that suits them. The problem being for decades the witnesses defined themselves in terms of what they are not -- specifically nothing like all those other churches.

  If the WTBS is to survive it must answer one question: what's the point? It they can't come up with a good reason to be a witness everybody will just go away.
  
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  3121

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  JeffT

  I was going to say (again) that I don't think the word "churn" means what he thinks it does. I've changed my mind. It is probably the best word we have to describe what he does.
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  40

  Dates and times

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last night at my bible study group we looked at 1thessalonians ch 5 .

  we have been working through the whole letter.

  verses 1-11 start with .

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  JeffT

  I don't think there is a number left in the Bible that has not been applied in some odd formula that, almost always, results in a date not far from when the 'researcher' is living in

  When I was researching my novels, I wanted to set up some end-times dates for my fictitious religion. I concluded that I could pick any date I wanted and then bash numbers out of whatever texts worked.

  To answer the question I would say there is no point. Just lead the best life you can and don't waste time fessing around with dates.
  
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  16

  Request--Sexual Sin Information Worksheet!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  page 1. https://imgbox.com/54dkkeaw.

  page 2. https://imgbox.com/i88bjmmp .

  page 3. https://imgbox.com/dje11qjr .

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  JeffT

  I may be wrong, but we all know the legal dept. is probably calling the shots on everything. This document does not sound to me like it was written by lawyers. Examples:

  "the matter" I would expect a legal document to read "alleged incident. I also do not believe a lawyer would start off saying the older person involved is the "accused" and the younger is "victim." Certainly they would apply a qualifying word. Until somebody is convicted or confesses a lawyer will consider them "Innocent until proven guilty."
  
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  6

  The Future

  by no-zombie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do you want to see into the future?.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyi3h7beea.

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  JeffT

  Some observations:

  After we left the JW's my wife and I attended an independent Evangelical church. The music there was very much like what's in this video. It is very easy to get caught up in the emotional rush. In fact this type of music is designed to do exactly that. You can call it "uplifting" or you can call it manipulative -- either way its more fun than anything I've ever seen or heard at a Kingdom Hall.

  Secondly, it strikes me that about 99% of that audience looked under the age of about thirty (and at what my granddaughter would call the upper end of the hottie scale). That is also deliberate these big churches are doing whatever they think it will take to appeal to young audiences. The Watchtower has fallen flat on its face in this regard.
  
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  3121

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  JeffT

  What he really thinks of his relationship with the WTBS is right there on the cover of his book: "The Reluctant Apostate." He (by this admission) advertises the fact that he did not want to leave the religion. He seems to have cobbled together some complaints about the Watchtower's doctrine and control, but when I look at what he says, and don't sense a lot of emotion behind it. Why?

  Because he didn't want to leave. His complaints ring hollow to me. I think the vast majority on this board would not go back if you dragged them in with wild horses. I think he'd go back in a second if they said they'd make him an elder this time next year.

  All this Sturm Und Drang is about him wanting to be a big shot witness. Then he wanted to be a big shot ex-witness. One problem: Most of us having gotten rid of one controlling big shot don't want another one.
  
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  3121

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  JeffT

  I figured it's not exact and there is probably a small bit of overlap. I blame Kim.

  Overlapping Kims?
  
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  3121

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JeffT

  So the question needs to be asked: How many wavering JWs have decided to stay in the borg because him?

  Good question. He certainly isn't helping those of us trying to shine light on the Watchtower's misdeeds. How can he argue against the Watchtower when he engages in sexual immorality, experiments with drugs, and financially fleeces his "flock?"

  It would be interesting to hear how the average JW reacts to him. I imagine a good number consider him a perfect example of how "apostates" conduct their lives.