Posts by UnDisfellowshipped

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

Besty said:

"this topic is a waste of resources. why not discuss somethign relevant?"

What is more relevant to discuss than our Creator?

If the evidence points to there being a timeless, spaceless Intelligence which caused the Big Bang, and provides us with the explanation for our ability to have rational inference (to logically think and come to conclusions from the premises), and provides us all with built-in moral laws, wouldn't you say that this is relevant to discuss?

And, what if the evidence points in the direction that a Man named Yeshua (or Jesus), who lived 2000 years ago, who claimed to be this Intelligence, rising from the dead in fulfillment of His predictions?

In other words, you don't think it's relevant to discuss whether or not the Very Cause of the Big Bang came to earth in a flesh and blood body?

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

Androb31,

Hi, how are you? Thanks for your post! You made some good points from Zechariah.

I think those verses clearly show that more than one person is referred to as Yahweh (Jehovah) in the Bible.

In addition to those that you posted, I would add these:

In Genesis and in Isaiah, Yahweh referred to Himself in the plural ("Us" and "Our"), which implies that there was more than one person within the Elohim Godhead:

Genesis 1:26-27 (WEB): God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 3:22 (WEB): Yahweh God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

Genesis 11:5-7 (WEB): Yahweh came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men built. Yahweh said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is what they begin to do. Now nothing will be withheld from them, which they intend to do. Come, let’s go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”

Isaiah 6:8 (WEB): I heard the Lord’s voice, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” Then I said, “Here I am. Send me!”

Not only that, there is a special Messenger ("Angel") of Yahweh in the Old Testament who is referred to as Yahweh, God, I AM, and is also worshiped and prayed to. This Angel has God's Name within Him:

Zechariah 3:1-2 (WEB): He showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Yahweh, and Satan standing at his right hand to be his adversary. Yahweh said to Satan, “Yahweh rebuke you, Satan! Yes, Yahweh who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Isn’t this a burning stick plucked out of the fire?”

Genesis 48:15-16 (WEB): He blessed Joseph, and said, “The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has fed me all my life long to this day, the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads, and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac. Let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.”

Exodus 3:2-6 (WEB): The angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. Moses said, “I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.” When Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the midst of the bush, and said, “Moses! Moses!” He said, “Here I am.” He said, “Don’t come close. Take your sandals off of your feet, for the place you are standing on is holy ground.” Moreover he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look at God. Yahweh said, “I have surely seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sorrows.

Isaiah 63:9-10 (WEB): In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and grieved his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he himself fought against them.

This Special Messenger, The Angel of The Lord, was the Angel who led Israel in the wilderness for 40 years:

Exodus 23:20-22 (WEB): “Behold, I send an angel before you, to keep you by the way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and listen to his voice. Don’t provoke him, for he will not pardon your disobedience, for my name is in him. But if you indeed listen to his voice, and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies, and an adversary to your adversaries.

The New Testament teaches that the Pre-Human Jesus was the One who led Israel through the wilderness:

1 Corinthians 10:1-5 (WEB): Now I would not have you ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all ate the same spiritual food; and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. However with most of them, God was not well pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Jude 1:5 (NET): Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe. (See also the ESV and New Living Translation of Jude 1:5)

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

The Oracle said:

"What about Horus?"

From everything I've read, the only "connections" between Jesus and Horus are undocumented, unsubstantiated claims made by people on the Internet and in books.

See this webpage for more facts: http://tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

Middleman,

Absolutely! You have my full, 100% permission and approval to use what I wrote in a PDF.

Thank you!

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

Cattails said:

"John 13:16, Jesus said, "The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. Jesus said on numerous occasions that, "the Father… hath sent me."(John 5:37,6:37) The Holy Ghost was also sent by the Father(John 14:26) and Jesus(John 16:7,13), thus making Jesus inferior to the Father and the Holy Ghost inferior to both the Father and Jesus."

The President of the United States has a greater position or rank than we do, but that does not make us inferior in NATURE, does it? We are all equally human in nature, aren't we? Same thing applies to God. All 3 Persons have different "positions" or "functions," but each are equally God in Nature.

Cattails said:

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the spirit of truth." John 17:1-3 Jesus prays to God.

I agree. Jesus, the Son, prays to God, the Father. That doesn't say anything about their Nature.

Cattails said:

Hebrews 2:17,18 Hebrews 3:2 Jesus has faith in God.

I agree. Jesus, as a Man, put His trust in The Father, who had a greater position than He did.

Cattails said:

Acts 3:13 Jesus is a servant of God.

Paul explains:

Philippians 2:6-7 (ESV): who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Christ has always existed in the Nature of God and had equality with God, but then He humbled Himself and emptied Himself, and took on the form of a human servant of God.

Cattails said:

Mark 13:32 Revelation 1:1 Jesus does not know things God knows.

As a Man, there were some things Jesus did not know. As for Revelation 1:1, God gave Jesus this Revelation in the sense that The Father commanded it, or willed it, and it comes through The Son, like everything else.

Cattails said:

John 4:22 Jesus worships God.

Yes, He does. This doesn't say anything about their Nature.

Cattails said:

Revelation 3:12 Jesus has one who is God to him.

Yes, once again, I agree. As a Man, Jesus has a God over Him, The Father, whom He worships.

Cattails said:

1stCorinthians 15:28 Jesus is in subjection to God. 1stCorinthians 11:1 Jesus' head is God. Hebrews 5:7 Jesus has reverent submission, fear, of God.

I agree with those teachings.

Cattails said:

Acts 2:36 Jesus is given lordship by God. Acts 5:31 Jesus is exalted by God. Hebrews 5:10 Jesus is made high priest by God. Philippians 2:9 Jesus is given authority by God. Luke 1:32,33 Jesus is given kingship by God. Acts 10:42 Jesus is given judgment by God. Acts 2:24, Romans 10.9, 1 Cor 15:15 "God raised [Jesus] from the dead". Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Romans 8:34 Jesus is at the right hand of God. 1 Tim 2:5 Jesus is the one human mediator between the one God and man. 1 Cor 15:24-28 God put everything, except Himself, under Jesus.

I agree with all of those teachings. None of the things you posted come anywhere near refuting the Trinity. They are fully in agreement with the Biblical Trinity teaching.

Jesus did promise that He would raise Himself from the dead:

John 2:19-21 (ESV): Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews then said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he was speaking about the temple of his body.

John 10:17-18 (ESV): For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."

Cattails said:

Philippians 2:6 Jesus did not believe being one with God was possible

Re-read that verse in different translations, and read up on a few commentaries, and you will see that Php 2:6 is teaching that Jesus was equal to God.

Not only that, there is no way you can deny that it says that Jesus always existed in the FORM OF GOD (or Very Nature of God, NIV).

How can someone exist in the Very Nature of God, and not be God? If Jesus was not, God, then who was He?

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

Cattails said:

"So according to those two there was a time when they weren't EQUAL in Power since Jesus "had certain human limitations while He was on earth". Do I get some kind of prize for finding out there is no such thing as an Eternal EQUAL Trinity?"

Paul wrote about Christ and said this:

"For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Colossians 2:9, ESV)

So, ALL of the Nature or Essence of Deity dwelt in Jesus' Human Body while He was on earth (and still today in heaven). He did not give up any of His Deity while on earth.

But, He did willingly limit the use of His power, knowledge, glory, etc. and, as a Man, He grew, learned, gained wisdom, got tired, got hungry, and experienced all of the same temptations that we do, except that He did not sin.

By becoming a Man, Jesus did not lose any of His God-Nature, but He did add Human Nature.

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

QuietlyLeaving said:

"undisfellowshipped, I don't think the catholic view and the protestant view [of the Trinity] are the same"

It is my understanding that both Catholics and Protestants accept the same Christian creeds on the Trinity, and from what I have learned, they both believe and teach all of the things I posted above.

It's possible I am wrong, and please let me know if there are some differences between the Catholic Trinity and the Protestant Trinity.

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

yknot said:

"I just don't get it. Why does God need functional subordination?"

The closest that the Bible comes to giving an explanation for the relationship between The Father and Son (besides the terms "Father" and "Son") is this:

1 Corinthians 11:3 (ESV): But I want you to understand that [...] the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

But why would One Person of the Trinity willingly subject Himself to another Person, and serve that other Person? The answer is, that it is all because of love (agape love), as Ephesians chapter 5 explains:

Ephesians 5:23-33 (ESV): For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Now, why would One Person have a greater rank or position than another Person within the Trinity? That is a great question.

A husband and wife are both equally human in nature. But, according to the Bible, the husband has the "head" position. Why does a wife do things for her husband? Why does a husband do things for his wife? The answer is: Love.

The Father and The Son and The Spirit are equally God in Nature. But, according to the Bible, The Father has the "head" position. The Son loves The Father, willingly subjects Himself to Him, serves Him in love, and obeys His commands, follows His directions, and does His will. The Spirit does the same thing to both The Father and The Son.

But, just as a human wife is not inferior or lesser in nature than her husband, The Son and Spirit are not inferior or lesser than The Father in Nature.

yknot said:

"How is Jesus a 'son'? If he wasn't created did God-Father split and divide into seperate cells? While a man can be a father, a son, and an uncle at the same time......he can't be those to himself."

Hebrews 1:3 compares The Father to our sun, and The Son to the light rays that are constantly always beaming forth from the sun. In other words (as the Pre-Nicene Church Fathers taught), The Son has, for all eternity, been proceeding out ("being begotten") from The Father's Being or Essence. Based on Hebrews 1:3 and other verses, the early Church Fathers taught that the Son was and is "eternally begotten." That is one explanation for why there is a "Father" and a "Son" within the Trinity. Beyond that, I don't think the Bible explains much about how the inner relationship of The Trinity works, or why each Person has the role that He has. Some things are revealed to us, and some things are for God alone to know.

Deuteronomy 29:29 (ESV): "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us"

yknot said:

"I am not trying to argue or deride your POV, I just don't get the appeal or rationality. Arianism is a face value interpretation, it simplicity isn't burdensome nor mysterious (okay I will allow for the whole beget thing without a wifey)....but still a lot less problematic."

And I won't try to deride your point of view either. I do think we should keep in mind that the important thing is arriving at the truth, not arriving at what may be the "simplest" or "easiest" explanation. The truth is not always simple without any complexities. How many things about nature, science, math, or life in general, are simple, easy to explain?

For example, just because a JW can make his teaching sound good and simple, does not mean it is true just for that reason.

The way I see it, if you accept Arianism, Unitarianism, or JW teaching, you are left with the following problem:

1:) Worship of any creature, man, or angel is idolatry in the Bible.

2:) God commands all people and angels to worship Jesus.

3:) If Jesus is a creature (angel, human, or something else), it would be idolatry to worship Him.

But if you believe that Jesus should NOT be worshiped, how do you explain the passages of Scripture that clearly teach that Jesus must be worshiped? (See Hebrews 1:6, Philippians 2:9-11, Revelation Chapter 5, John 5:23)

So, with Arianism, the way I see it, you are either worshiping a creature, or you are ignoring God's command to worship Jesus.

yknot said:

"What was the point of the temptation of Jesus? If he had chosen to bow down to Satan what would have happened to this triune equation? If he wasn't able to fail, again what was the point of the event?"

I will reply to this very good question tomorrow (or the next day). I don't have time at this moment to prepare, write it out, and explain it the best way that it should be explained. (it takes some deep thinking, and I'm tired tonight, :-) LOL)

yknot said:

"Does salvation really hinge on this interpretational understanding over acceptance of Christ?"

Well, if you really think about it, wouldn't the two teachings have to go hand-in-hand?

I mean, if you don't know who Jesus was, or what He did for you, and you just blindly put your trust in someone or something called "Jesus," is that true faith? Is that going to save you? Is that the kind of faith God wants us to have?

If I put my trust in a Jesus who is Almighty God, and you put your trust in an angel you call "Jesus," are we both putting our trust in the same Person?

If Jesus is truly Almighty God, how do you think He feels about people who say He is just an angel or a man? By the same token, if Jesus is not Almighty God, how do you think The Father feels about those who commit idolatry by worshiping Jesus?

How can you have a relationship with someone if you don't know who he is?

Bottom line, here is what Jesus said:

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins. ... I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:24, 58, NIV)

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

Possible-San said:

"I beg to deffer... In the Trinity doctrine, Jesus is not Jehovah. I explained it repeatedly until now. [...] "Jehovah" is the name of the father of Jesus."

It is the Witnesses who make the claim that only The Father is Jehovah. The Bible, on the other hand, teaches that The Son is indeed called Jehovah (along with The Father and The Spirit).

Romans 10:9-13 (World English Bible): that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [...] for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him. For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Paul there quoted from Joel 2:32, which, in the Hebrew, says this: "It will happen that whoever will call on the name of YAHWEH shall be saved."

So, Paul is teaching that Jesus is Yahweh (Jehovah) -- Paul said that, in order to be saved, a person must confess that Jesus is LORD, then he applies Joel 2:32 to Jesus Christ to show that He is YAHWEH!

Psalm 102:1, 12, 15, 21, 22, 25-27 (WEB): A Prayer of the afflicted, when he is overwhelmed and pours out his complaint before Yahweh. Hear my prayer, Yahweh! [...] But you, Yahweh, will remain forever; your renown endures to all generations. [...] So the nations will fear the name of Yahweh; all the kings of the earth your glory. [...] that men may declare the name of Yahweh in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem; when the peoples are gathered together, the kingdoms, to serve Yahweh. [...] Of old, you laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will endure. Yes, all of them will wear out like a garment. You will change them like a cloak, and they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will have no end.

Hebrews chapter 1 quotes that passage, which is all about Yahweh, and explains emphatically that Psalm 102 was referring to THE SON!:

Hebrews 1:8, 10-12 (WEB): But of the Son he says, [...] “You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands. They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does. As a mantle, you will roll them up, and they will be changed; but you are the same. Your years will not fail.”

So, once again, the Bible says that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Old Testament.

Isaiah prophesied that John the Baptist would prepare the way for Yahweh, but the New Testament says that he prepared the way for Jesus the LORD!

At Exodus 3:14 (and throughout Isaiah chapters 40-50), Yahweh identifies Himself as "I AM" or "I AM HE." He told Moses that this was His Name, and that Moses should tell this Name to the Israelites.

At John 8:24, 58, Jesus identifies Himself as "I AM," and that He existed before Abraham came into existence.

Jesus taught that The Father had given The Son His Name:

John 17:11-12 (ESV): ...Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me... While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me.
Philippians 2:9 (ESV): Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

UnDisfellowshipped

Since there is so much confusion among ex-JW's, JW's, and Christians in general about exactly what the Trinity Doctrine is, I decided to post this to clarify this teaching.

The historical Trinity Doctrine of the Christian (Protestant and Catholic) churches has always been this:

* There is only One True God by Nature.

* There are Three Distinct Persons who share equally the Nature of God.

* There are NOT three different GODS (that is the false doctrine of Tritheism or Polytheism).

* There is NOT one PERSON who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of Modalism).

* However, each Person of the Trinity does have His own "role" or "function." The Son willingly obeys the Father. The Spirit willingly obeys the Father and the Son. (This is known as "Functional Subordinationism")

* Each of the Three Persons is called "Jehovah" (or "Yahweh") and "God" in the Bible.

* Jesus IS Jehovah, but He is NOT The Father or The Spirit.

* The Son is the One who died on the Cross, NOT The Father or The Spirit.

* The Father is the One who sent The Son into the world. (Jesus did NOT send Himself)

* The Son was praying to The Father. (Jesus was NOT praying to Himself)

* While Jesus was on earth (and even after He returned to heaven), The Father had a greater position or rank of authority within the Godhead.

* The Father, Son, and Spirit are EQUAL in Nature, Essence, Attributes, Qualities, Power, Knowledge, etc.

* The Father, Son, and Spirit deserve EQUAL worship and praise and prayer from Christians.

* The Son took on flesh, and became 100% Human in addition to being 100% God. That is why He had certain human limitations while He was on earth.