If I was 70 years old, I would hate to wake up. Even far worse if he becomes athiest. Imagine at the end of his life thinking/realizing all of it was wasted. If he has a faith/christian, then atleast he'll believe in an afterlife or resurrection. If he becomes athiest, his very short time on earth was all wasted for a publishing company.
EndofMysteries
JoinedPosts by EndofMysteries
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27
Finally getting a shepherding call... or so I thought
by Zoos ina few weeks ago i got a visit from a sister from the old congregation.
she was our uber pioneer, fearless, regular and often accompanied by her husband, a ministerial servant.
she didnt know i lived here so it was a brief visit after she found out i had disassociated myself.. i got a knock at the door a few minutes ago and it was her husband this time.
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I want to marry a Witch the Brothers have no idea
by MysticMage in.
i am secretly in love with a woman who is a witch.. the brothers have on idea about this.. i am happy with her, the women from the hall never showed me true love.. .
what should i do ?.
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EndofMysteries
On occassion I've wondered what real so called witches actually do. Are they just pagans / nature worshippers who just call themselves that?
If it's spellcasting, after they realize what they are casting does nothing, it's a joke, why would they continue?
Anyway, what does she do exactly? Personally I'd consider someone who called themself a witch no different then somebody who said their hobby is playing magic the gathering.
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Question for exjws who are now atheist..
by EndofMysteries inthis question is for athiests who had been jw's, and when leaving, had to pretty much start fresh (if most of your association had been jw's).. to help you better answer the question, here is first the reason i am asking it.
my whole life and assocation were jw's only.
when i left, it was at first being pretty isolated while making new friends/etc from scratch.
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EndofMysteries
rawe - Thanks for responding. I was curious if any athiests would join something like that, not because of the beliefs or religious aspect but the community aspect of it, provided they allowed non believers like you said.
Just hypothetically if I became athiest, after seeing what a real group as Jesus said, they have love among themselves, is like, I think just for those things I'd stick around.
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Question for exjws who are now atheist..
by EndofMysteries inthis question is for athiests who had been jw's, and when leaving, had to pretty much start fresh (if most of your association had been jw's).. to help you better answer the question, here is first the reason i am asking it.
my whole life and assocation were jw's only.
when i left, it was at first being pretty isolated while making new friends/etc from scratch.
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EndofMysteries
I do not at all think that only religious people 'want' to perform humanitarian tasks.
And again, that was only an aspect of what I saw. One can volunteer at a soup kitchen or donate to red cross, etc.
But to find a community of people who not only do those things but each month knowing there will be cookouts, events, etc, an easy way to find friends similar to how it would feel on the rare occassion a jw congregation would have a picnic, etc.
As a JW, you were a part of a community of people you saw face to face, could easily make (conditional) friends with, etc. In a religious nonjudgemental and spiritually free situation, you get that and a lot more without ever worrying about being shunned for something they don't believe or agree with.
Do any of you athiests miss/desire/want to join something like that. If you have become apart of some type of community, tell me what it is and what it's like.
Those born or who go through school as athiests it wouldn't be such a big deal since you'd have school friends and friends/family while growing up and never go through later in life loosing everything. But for those EX JW's who have lost after school years most friends/family because of the religion, have you found and joined another type of community or are your friends now just based on who you meet while working, neighbors, etc?
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Interview with an apostate: Endofmysteries
by EndofMysteries intell us a little about yourself and your family.. i woke up prior to having my 'own' family.
a big chunk of my immediate and closest relatives are jw's, which i have limited contact with.
non jw relatives were happy to connect / get reconnected.
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EndofMysteries
Tell us a little about yourself and your family.
I woke up prior to having my 'own' family. A big chunk of my immediate and closest relatives are JW's, which I have limited contact with. Non jw relatives were happy to connect / get reconnected. Even though I don't believe in the governing body who demand to be obeyed as if it's God himself talking, yet at the same time say they aren't inspired and will blame those who listen if they make bad life choices because of that......I do still believe in God. My research and study are beyond just the bible at this point in time. Whereever I end up, it may only be a community of good people/ with true spiritual freedom who try to live non judgemental like Jesus and have a positive impact on the world.
Were you a born in or a convert?
I was born in.
Are your parents / family JWs?
Most are.
How many generations have been JWs?
3 generations
Did you hold any position in the WTS? (MS, Elder etc...)
No.
Did you *really* believe in the bible, in spirits (angels, demons)?
I still do believe in angels and demons. I don't neccessarily believe it in the way the watchtower spins it though.
Did you get baptised? When and why?
I did over 20 years ago because I really wanted to serve God.
What was the initial trigger that made you start questioning things?
noticing hypocrisy, and noticing the good people and things of other religions, who seem to outdo JW's in some parts, as going to die only because of not believing or caring if somebody knocked on their door and offered an awake magazine about why playing PacMan is a bad thing to do? Then especially when I started really reading the bible and seeing the religion was going against so many of it's teachings. Inconsistency too, can't do christmas because even though it's not pagan today (people aren't saying lets worship the sun and moon gods), that was it's origin, yet in mexico the pinata even though pagan origin, doesn't mean that today so shouldn't judge anybody who does it. (or no birthdays but wedding pagan cakes, rings, dresses, etc, still allowed) And the WT was a UN member for 10 years while saying it was babylon the great and other religions inside it were doomed for not getting out of her.
Where did you find information? Internet sites? Books?
.The bible itself revealed to me it was on bad terms with God. Then I did deep research. I didn't care to read any 'apostate' reasoning or quotes. If they quoted any magazine, I would search and pull the entire old books and magazines to see pdf scans of the origin and in context. I realized after awhile so called apostates don't twist facts, don't lie, it was the WT who was twisting and lying about their past and present. The truth was bad enough nobody need lie about anything.
How difficult or painful was the process of leaving?
. For me it was hard and fast. I was able to because of not living with any family.
Was it a big dramatic exit or a careful quiet fade?
. It was leaning towards big dramatic, but I am currently a quiet fade, only on account of the conscious of some family I am trying to keep in contact with and able to see. I know what they believe and are brainwashed to think and trying to not put them past the edge where they feel they have to shun or God will destroy them.
Did you convince anyone else to leave with you?
. No, I haven't attempted to.
How were your family relations affected by your decision?
. Very strained with JW family.
Were you or are you still being shunned by those who didn't leave?
It's been a somewhat on and off with a few.
How long have you now been out?
a few years
Was there anything you looked forward to doing when you left?
first thing was a long travel trip, (played catchup on what I should have been doing)
What are you most proud of achieving since you left?
Seen a big chunk of the world so far.
Is there anything you miss about life in the congregation?
no, if it had been a better congregation possibly but not the one i had left.
Red pill or blue pill? Do you regret waking up to reality at all?
recently had a jw relative who passed away, crying on their deathbed not sure if they have done enough. as a JW you never know if you are doing enough. So don't have that on my me. I see it as if didn't wake up now, would have woken up years down the road, and regretted and wasted my whole life. I'm just glad it wasn't too late to have a real life.
Did you become an atheist or transfer your faith elsewhere?
My faith and 'the truth' is truly going to be my own now. I may go to a church / join something where they have real love among themselves and allow spiritual freedom.
How do you now feel about religion in general?
After seeing a few, some are destructive on lives, and some are truly good on lives.
Do you feel any guilt celebrating xmas or birthdays or doing any other JW "no-no"s?
I asked some good christians who were aware of the pagan origins why would they celebrate christmas? They said because they are not celebrating the sun and moon gods, they are celebrating God and what Jesus did for our sins. Instead of the christians adopting pagan customs as seen as a bad thing, to them it was seen as a good thing. It eradicated paganism. Then in the bible there are scriptures about not judging anybody on what days they elevate above another and what they choose to observe, and if you do observe or elevate a day as above another, do it to and for God. That reasoning made sense. The calendar and the days of the week, JW's call them by the 'pagan names'. JW's also hang pictures on the wall. In bible times that would be called idolatry, and only pagans did that. I don't see anything wrong in holidays now, they do it to God, it's joyful and brings families together. (depending on the people ofcoarse)
Have you attended any face-to-face meetups of ex-JWs?
. no, unaware of any around me
Describe your circle of friends - mostly other ex-JWs or regular people?
. regular people
Do you tell people about your JW past?
. yes, it's a good story and interesting to them. It also makes sense for them if not familar w/ holiday customs, etc.
Do you feel animosity or pity toward current JWs?
. pity, it's not them, most are good people, it's the leadership.
How do you respond to witnesses when they call at your door?
. hasn't happened yet
Storm the barricades or tend to the wounded? (do you favor activism or support)
. online activism is good, for those still in, they may look for answers in private online and come across your own things which may help them. picketing a kingdomhall or convention may not do much. definitely support.
What do you think is the most effective approach to reaching people still in?
. you can't unless they are on their way out. just asking questions in a sense of something you are confused about and wondering. prior to me leaving, i remember having a meal with a family and some of their other jw friends with an elder at their hall. one of those at the meal, an older couple, mentioned how they were concerned they would be dissappointed and let down, if everything we believe wasn't truly so. the elder at the meal quickly shut him up and changed subject. if he wasn't there, i would have chimed in and said the same.
Do you think the WTS can or should be destroyed, will continue on as-is or grow / change?
there are a lot of good people in the WTS. If a change happened that allowed spiritual freedom, if it became as it was prior to rutherford controlling everything, where each congregation was incharge of itself, I think they could do okay. But as the doctrine and practices are now it shouldn't be allowed.
How has your life been impacted by your JW past?
it did help me get a love for God and good morals, (not every single aspect of JW's is bad/false). All the 'men's teachings' from teh governing body about education, their own ideas on what's right and wrong they pass off as from God himself, had resulted in many missed opportunites but my life isn't past the point of no return so I just see myself now as just having a late start.
Are there things in your life you blame the WTS for?
for loss of family, for jw family never being very close because no traditions/customs/gatherings to encourage them to stay close, for old jw relatives being in dire straits and unable to take care of themselves since they didn't plan for retirement and the WT won't do a thing to help them.
JW upbringing - a protection or a curse?
sort of both. I have met many christians who are not jw's who had good upbringings and on jw standards just as moral if not even more moral, and they don't have a fear of disfellowshipping or God destroying them, so it's truly out of their heart vs forced.
How do you fill your time now it's not filled with meetings and field service?
it's a work in progress, figuring out what I want to do
Do you still have an interest in JW beliefs and doctrines?
yes, only to know what close relatives are being told and curious w/ the radical changes the past year, how it's morphing into something completely different even from 10 years ago.
How much of your time is still spent on JW related matters?
none minus occassionaly visiting this website.
What do you think of the ex-JW community?
it's quite diverse. It's unfortunate it doesn't offer much for association, etc, outside of online and answering questions.
Do you see yourself still being associated with the ex-JW community in 5 or 10 years time?
unsure
Do you fear the future? It's a very hard pill to go from KNOWING without a doubt, that if the end didn't come in this life, you would just wake up in paradise with all your family. I am still a believe in God, and I believe he is guiding me to the truth, as much as is able to be revealed in this time. It's a hard transition from being told to learning through the scriptures it's through holy spirit and much more personal experience. I do NOT fear I'll be wiped out or killed by God, I know he can see my heart and know I'm looking to do the right thing.
What advice would you give to anyone starting the journey of leaving the WTS?
If you have friends and family still in, do NOT panic and tell them what you've learned and why it's false or lies they teach, etc. Your own family, even parents, closest people to you, can turn on you and shut you out just like that. I prayed and asked for godly wisdom as is promised in the book of james and Jesus promise those who ask the father for holy spirit, he will give to them. Pay close attention to how things play out in your life. If everything that can possibly go wrong is going wrong, or that can go right is going right, or if you were trying to do things and it seemed some invisibly force just kept throwing every possible thing out there to stop it, and it turns out later on the end result saved you from a very bad decision, you may see and feel God or Jesus or whatever you want to call it looking out for you and guiding your steps.
What would you change in your life if you could go back and talk to yourself?
It's not too late for me thankfully but at an earlier time would have got a head start on planning for retirement and more education, and to not have turned down friendships, potential girlfriends, etc, merely because they were not a JW.
Do you have any regrets about life since you left?
That I didn't do so sooner.
Can we read your life-story anywhere? (links to online or books)
not yet but I do plan on having a combination of both
Want to share your own story? Please use the Interview with an Apostate: Template and post it in the Personal Experiences & Reunions section with the title "Interview with an Apostate: [your name or alias]"
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Question for exjws who are now atheist..
by EndofMysteries inthis question is for athiests who had been jw's, and when leaving, had to pretty much start fresh (if most of your association had been jw's).. to help you better answer the question, here is first the reason i am asking it.
my whole life and assocation were jw's only.
when i left, it was at first being pretty isolated while making new friends/etc from scratch.
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EndofMysteries
This question is for athiests who had been JW's, and when leaving, had to pretty much start fresh (if most of your association had been JW's).
To help you better answer the question, here is first the reason I am asking it. My whole life and assocation were JW's only. When I left, it was at first being pretty isolated while making new friends/etc from scratch. Through someone I have been seeing, have at a few times attended their church. They don't consider themself part of the denomination though, just a christian, and at that church there is freedom for your own thoughts and ideas. It's very laid back. But also, they are much more close and loving then I had ever seen at a kingdomhall.
Several times a month they get together doing fun things, when a family had a life crisis they did a fundraiser to help them out, they do missions, they feed the poor, they have members who are trained to help those trying to get off drugs or some to help comfort those really depressed or down from a family death etc.
So in summary, it's a community of good people, trying to live life the loving way Jesus taught, and there is spiritual freedom as well, etc. I do not believe and agree with all their beliefs, but those are just technical differences, in a broad sense, I do agree with it. I am considering joining, and it won't equate to being enslaved in a set of beliefs, it will be having a new community/family who really try to live their lives happily and have a positive impact on the world.
Now I thought to myself, hypothetically, if I ended up athiest right now, what would I do?
My question is to those of you who are athiest who lost your whole community/etc, don't tell me what your options are, but tell me if you have actually found and joined some type of similar community and what is it like.
I am asking this again because EXJW's are unique in a sense, you can lose all family and life long friends just for having a difference of beliefs or opinions and for not having much association outside of the religion. Do most who end up athiests ever makeup for the loss of community/friends/family, and for those who want to also give back and help others?
I wonder if what i've seen is found outside of a laid back, just truly good hearted people united by being in a religious community that focuses only on the love aspect and non of the rules/judgement aspect.
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What if we were a video game?
by EndofMysteries into imagine this, just imagine creating one yourself, like a video game.
you create a virtual world, you design a planet, even a universe if you choose to.
you focus on one planet and design it, create life on it.
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EndofMysteries
To imagine this, just imagine creating one yourself, like a video game. You create a virtual world, you design a planet, even a universe if you choose to. You focus on one planet and design it, create life on it. You need to make the world self sufficient so you design the plants, animal life, etc, cycles, water, everything all around that. Then you design humans as well, and you give them AI so advanced, that they become self aware and they are also able to learn and grow.
You are God to them. Since you were around before creating their universe, you were always there. This entire world is all within a little hard drive on your computer. It's constantly running and you check back from time to time to see how it's going and occassionaly intervene with things.
Imagine if our situation is the same, we are merely a computer game/program in some computer and not even apart of the real world.
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The true meaning on how light and darkness/day and night are created BEFORE the sun and moon....
by EndofMysteries ini could get real deep into this topic because every phase of the creation days go much further than how they appear when read in a literal sense.
i am only going to stick to the question and explanation in the title of the thread.
many say the bible and creation days make no sense at all, how is day and night, and morning/evening, all done before the sun and moon which we use for day and night and morning and evening created?
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EndofMysteries
Adamah - I agree with all you have stated in your last post. I have learned of those things in my research as well. About YHWH and his Asherah. The divine counsil is in the bible as well, for example Ps 82 is a whole chapter on it.
I do know that Babylon conquered the jews. I was saying that throughout the bible, them being conquered was punishment. In the book of Daniel, the king of babylon is told by God that he is given rulership over man, even his own kingdom and babylon, was due to God. Remember after he says he himself created and made it powerful he becomes as a beast for 7 years and then is to know that God gives power to whom he wants to give power, etc.
I have traveled the world exploring and studying ancient cultures and ruins. I recall when looking at transcripts of ancient assyrian ruins about how that king had engraved something along the lines of how he was God's sword, the scripture, Is 19:24 where God calls egypt his people, israel his inheritance, and assyrian his sword. When seeing the similarities, the hidden ones in the scriptures, then with the beliefs and ancient ruins of those other cultures, it's a definite thing that a lot of it is tied together.
I am not trying to believe what i 'want' to believe, or I would not have come this far.
At this crossroads, you may have gone the path of what's in the bible matches up w/ so called pagan/false religions so it's all false. (I don't know). So far for me, seeing all of these similarities, and what the bible is really teaching, and the similarities in every culture and religion worldwide, that the 'truth' might not be what we thought, but also for the first time in history, we have the ability to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together to get the truth, and for me so far it's NOT looking like it's going to end with, "it's all BS that just coincidentally happened to be the same BS in every culture worldwide".
Call it God, the almighty, angels, spirit creatures, aliens, anything, but so far I'm sure there has been outside life / forces involved in this world.
O and thanks for the books and sources you mentioned, although I have already through other research learned the same things, I'll check some of those out to supplement what I've learned.
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Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist
by DS211 inif you could teach me one thing to convince me not to believe what would it be?
for instance what has the wt taught about evolution/science or mans existence that is wrong and could possibly change skmeones mind?
and the more important question, why is it a creator couldnt allow for species to evolve?
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EndofMysteries
o I forgot to reply about the giants. Giants are just mythological is what you are saying? Andre the Giant was a figment of your imagination? (I know he had a disorder which caused that). Have you ever watched basketball? The point is, Goliath, or the giants (sons of anakim) that king david supposedly wiped out, could have very well existed. Are you denying that men 8 to 10, 12 feet could have existed?
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Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist
by DS211 inif you could teach me one thing to convince me not to believe what would it be?
for instance what has the wt taught about evolution/science or mans existence that is wrong and could possibly change skmeones mind?
and the more important question, why is it a creator couldnt allow for species to evolve?
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EndofMysteries
snareracket - more replies to your last 2 posts...... so what you are really saying when you tell me to stop guessing and read it in a textbook is that you don't want any good challenges to your claims, since it's becoming increasingly difficult for you to rebuttal, and so instead of challenging you, just go ahead and tell whoever to come back after they spend the next 8 years getting a masters degree on that subject.
In that case snareracket, why don't you stop guessing what the bible says and posting ANYTHING in a bible discussion, and read and study the entire book in hebrew interlinear or better yet learn hebrew and learn what is really says before you go making comments about what it teaches? How can you have so much conviction without any knowledge of what the bible really teaches? O that's right, because you listened to the faithful and discreet slave (Matt 24) and since they were wrong, it's all wrong.
Nice try, cheap shot!