Just hate their constant abuse of the English language. Do they ever feel any shame or are they so convinced of their own infalibility that they get so tied up with the semantics that they stop feeling any real connection with the words they vomit onto the paper.
Posts by nugget
-
23Some vs Many
by Londo111 init is interesting how the watchtower uses these two words.
for instance, the word some is often used to minimize, and many used to maximize.
and yet, it is so unspecific that some might be a greater quantity than many, yet the mind doesnt process these words this way.. for instance, if it is a failed prediction or a changed teaching, they might say, some believed... when it fact some means most or all, because this was food at the proper time coming from gods channel through the watchtower.
-
-
-
17
This will be fun. What is your generation count?
by Defianttruth inthe wbts teaches a overlapping (generation) will not pass away since 1914 right?.
what is your personal genealogy.
(1) my great grand father was born in 1901. he became active with the bible students around 1910. .
-
-
nugget
My husbands grandmother was born in 1912
My father was born in 1938
I was born in 1965
My daughter was born in 2000
4 generations. My Husband and I have no grandparents left alive and my children have already lost one of theirs.
The overlapping generation teaching is a travesty and shameful.
-
44
How would you answer these questions that came to me in an email through my website? ...
by AndersonsInfo inmany emails are sent to me through my website, watchtowerdocuments.com.
all are answered.
remember 1corinthians 6: 1-2 (i'll answer this question.
-
-
nugget
4. I understand your emotional feeling as a woman regarding the molestation of teenage girls and women by members of the organization and the manner the in which the policies are applied in managing the issues, but shouldn't you have waited for Jehovah's own time? Deuteronomy 32:35
The expression wait on Jehovah is often used to justify inaction suggesting that Jehovah will take action on behalf of victims either by a change of policy or by some other act of judgement. However if you look at the Bible record Jehovah has never shown acceptance or approval for this attittude. When religious leaders became corrupt and led the people in false worship then the whole nation was punnished even though the majority had merely followed the lead of those in authority or been passive and uncritical. The only ones who received Gods approval were those who had the courage to speak out against the status quo and make a stand for what is right. Each one has to render an account for himself therefore Christianity is not a passive faith but an active one in which each one must be responsible and prepared to stand for what is right. Even from a human standpoint allowing vulnerable children to be raped and molested when you have the ability to prevent it is despicable. Outside of a religious setting you wouldn't even think twice you would do all you could to prevent or report it, why should the care given to children in a religion be less then that given to children elsewhere?
5. I understand the hypocrisy you are trying to highlight but is leaving the organization a better choice? Remember John 6: 66-70; 1Samuel 16: 7-9
This question is based on the assumption that the organisation fairly represents God and is the best place to be, that all alternatives are worse. However there is no indication in the Bible that God is happy with an organisation that claims to serve him but fails to do so. Jesus didn't stick with the Jewish faith and try to reform from within his followers left the corrupt faith and set up a new one. The assumption is also made that a person who sees a problem with the society can highlight this and be listened to and be allowed to remain in the society. Firstly most ordinary members and certainly women have no authority and no voice. Even when the issue is serious the pressure is to maintain the status quo and not to bring the society into disrepute is supreme. People who wish to make changes are not welcome and not allowed to stay a part of the organisation. The most effective way to keep something quiet is to exclude the person who tries to bring it to the attention of others. This means existing members are told not to talk to the person or to pay attention to anything they write in this way their concerns are silenced. Being outside is often forced on a person not a choice a person makes.
6. What is then the hope for salvation or have you believed there is no salvation for mankind?
Biblical salvation is not the gift of men but rather God. The Bible does not direct followers to an organisation but rather towards Christ and his sacrifice. So God will deem who is worthy to receive his salvation in whatever form it takes. For some Biblical salvation is a myth no more real than any other story. These ones seek to be involved and make a difference salvation is not something given but rather something to be achieved.
9. As a man, I hate rape and child molestation, but shouldn't there be reasonable evidence to convict somebody of a crime?
As a human being I hate rape and molestation of children but do not believe that uneducated people whatever their religious conviction are best equipped to determine what has happened. Since the primary focus of elders is to determine the level of repentance and to protect the reputation of the congregation they are too invested in the outcome to be able to objectively investigate such an accusation. Reasonable evidence can be collected by police, forensics, by psychologists trained to talk to victims of child abuse and by hospital staff who can determine physical damage. They can not only examine evidence but also prosecute and thus protect other children from suffering similar abuse.
We must also consider the victim in this who can be damaged mentally and physically by going through a judicial committee. Sometimes they can be made to feel in some way responsible and because the process is there to examine repentance a victim is so concerned with showing how sorry they are to avoid being disfellowshipped that they can be left feeling tremendous guilt for their own abuse. Professional help received when reporting to the proper authorities can give the victim support so that they know that they are not to blame. In the real world saying sorry is not enough in fact it is irrelevent, in the kingdom hall it can be enough to get you a private reproof meaning a victim may be attending meetings with their abuser and not being able to tell anyone what a danger they are or warn other parents and children without being accused of reviling.
10. I understand your frustration with the two witnesses account policy but if someone denies the allegation, the organization have no means of establishing the truth without adequate evidence. In this case, shouldn't you have thought that vengeance belongs to God? Remember Romans 12: 17-19; Luke 12: 52 -59 11.
That is what the police and other experts are for.
On the issue of higher education, I do not think the organization banned members from seeking higher education. There a lot of witnesses in Nigeria that are in the higher school of learning. Except you can provide me with evidence to the contrary. What I understood was members should be careful not to be overtly pursuing higher education when they have a qualification that can provide them a basic means of sustenance e.g. if you are a degree holder, at least it could provide you a decent living so why go further when the time spent for further education can be used for God service. As an individual, I do not think anyone can talk me out of my personal dreams. The issue in religion I see amongst people generally is the application of the doctrines. Some are bigots while others are liberal.
If an elder supports a child in higher education their qualifications for oversight are reviewed. This shows how strongly the organisation feel about higher education. Does this person not attend assemblies or read the magazines or listen?
12. On the issue of flip-flops and the failure of witness message of doom, it maybe due to lack of understanding of the scripture at that time. Every day, new understanding is perceived. Remember 2Peter 3:16 13. The issues you highlighted on more dangers are baseless as I do not see anything wrong in being neutral in times of war or refusal to salute the flag. There are scriptural basis for it e.g. Isaiah 2: 2-4; Deuteronomy 4:16
It is nice that you can be so casual about the changes in doctrine and the failure in prophecy. Remember that anyone who does not believe the doctrine as writen at any time and questions it can be disfellowshipped, even if the society later changes their doctrine. People make important life decisions based on what they are told is the "truth" at any time, the consequences of such decisions can be huge. Any organisation that insists on this level of obedience also has a degree of responsibility to it's members to protect them. Since the society never apologies, admits failure or compensates members who have been harmed through following bad advice or for making poor decisions based on the societies interpretation of prophecy then they are causing unnecessary harm to their members. Flip flops are disgraceful when the society has such Draconian rules.
13. Talking about losing friends and family members as a result of associating with witnesses, I think there is also a scriptural basis for it. Matthew 10: 32-38; Luke 12: 52-53; 14: 25-27
There is no real scriptual basis for shunning. Jesus christ never shunned anyone including Judas. When Jesus said at the last supper that someone was going to betray him the disciples didn't confront Judas because Jesus had been shunning him, rather they were concerned that it wasn't themselves. They had no reason to see Judas as different. The parable of the prodigal son also indicates that forgiveness is required of Christians. The organisation tells members of the public that they should not have to choose between family and their religion and yet this is something baptised members are expected to do. The reason the organisation says something different to the public and gives a different message to it's members is because they know that such a stricture would be unpalatable to most people. It is unnatural to shun, it is bullying and unchristian it diminishes those that practice it.
-
32
Lies on the JW.org FAQ section
by EndofMysteries init's riddled with lies.
here are a few, "are you an american sect?
all of our teachings are based on the bible, not on the writings of some religious leader in the united states.1 thessalonians 2:13.. we follow jesus christ, not any human leader.matthew 23:8-10.. .
-
-
nugget
The purpose of the website is to advertise their religion and present themselves in the most favourable light.
The answers lie by omission and the use of the much abused "some people" or "most people" to indicate a viewpoint that has no reference attached to it but sounds authorative is a way of dodging harsh truths. You will always find some people who believe absolute nonsense. Some people believe the Earth is flat, some people believe the Queen is a lizard from space, some people believe in fairies. Just because some people say it it does not make it true.
The truth is Yes they are a cult since the GB in America has the final say on doctrine and failure to comply with these men is grounds for expulsion from the religion.
Yes only JWs are expected to be saved non JWs even children are expected to die. The millions who have already died will be saved is smoke and mirrors.
Yes they shun ex members who no longer believe or whom the elders do not deem to be sorry enough. You cannot leave the rteligion with dignity.
False advertising.
-
43
I can't believe how sexist the Borg is!!!
by quellycatface injust letting off a bit more steam.
why can't sisters look after the library or the sound.
what makes the brothers so damned special???.
-
-
nugget
I am grateful for the sexism of the borg. At least I don't have to carry the guilt of many of the ex elders and ministerial servants who were involved in some of the nastier aspects of the society. The organisation doesn't give responsibility unless it feels someone is controllable so perhaps women are too much of a liability for them.
Having said that it was annoying at the time that capable women were constantly sidelined and demeaned and that any brother who was baptised was considered superior.
-
34
AUTISM and JW children
by apostatekate ini was a jw kid.
i remember having to sit still through long, boring meetings.
i remember being taken to the book room for numerous spankings.
-
-
nugget
I think congregations cope better when the child looks disabled they struggle when the disability is less tangible. In all my time as a witness I never heard a local needs talk or any talk about how to connect with someone with ASD or how to show compassion and tolerance in meetings. It is as if in Watchtower world these people do not exist. In assemblies provision is made for the elderly, blind, deaf and physically impaired but no provision is made for ASD children. In the shepherding the flock book I am not aware of a single entry on autism or shepherding families with special needs.
At assemblies my son got distressed when there was feedback on the speakers, when the sun got in his eyes, when he was cramped. He found being outside all day unbearable. It was ok at first because when he was very small there was mothers and babies and then later we were able to retreat to the car if necessary. But the last year the society said there would be no car parking for anyone other than disabled and everyone had to go by coach which is fine if everyone is physically able but a disaster if you have a child on the autistic spectrum who may have a meltdown and need to leave at any time.
I think that because they cannot contribute to the tasks then they are not included in the plans or preparation. There is no place for them long term in the organisation unless they are very high functioning and have their religion as one of their obsessions.
-
34
AUTISM and JW children
by apostatekate ini was a jw kid.
i remember having to sit still through long, boring meetings.
i remember being taken to the book room for numerous spankings.
-
-
nugget
I think what is worse is the level of ignorance surrounding special needs children. As they can't contribute to the tasks they are not tolerated and are unvalued.
My nephew has severe autism and used to freak out every time silence fell and people bowed their heads in prayer. My sister was told that the elders thought he was demon possessed, she was also told that she was being punnished for some secret sin. It was positively medieval. I feel that they had more extreme views there than the norm but since there is no guidance or understanding of autism elders are free to interpret behaviour in a way they understand.
The society is no fit place for children whether they have special needs or not, some of the material prepared for them is very frightening and in some cases inappropriate. Topics of a sensitive nature are discussed openly at meetings and there is no help for any youth who does not conform to the expected paradigm.
I cannot see what this religion offers any child.
-
34
AUTISM and JW children
by apostatekate ini was a jw kid.
i remember having to sit still through long, boring meetings.
i remember being taken to the book room for numerous spankings.
-
-
nugget
As the mother of an autistic child I have to say that meetings were a place of intolerance and torture for my child. No allowances are made for normal children and even less for autistic ones.
My son could not keep quiet for 2 minutes let alone 2 hours. He would talk to himself constantly throughout the meeting and line up pens between the chair legs. Elders would tell him to control his children so my husband would take him out to discipline him and then tell him not to cry when he came back into the hall but as soon as he saw me he would burst into freash tears and go back out to be disciplined again. In the end I would take him out supposedly to discipline him having the appropriate stern face and we would go into the second school where he could chatter to his hearts content. I was always shocked how intolerant others were and how they did not get that it wasn't a discipline issue.
When my son started self harming in school and hiding under tables fearful of bad books falling from the sky I told my husband that he could not go to meetings in the evening. Autistic children need to adhere to a strict routine so taking him out late twice then once a week messed with that and made a bad situation worse.
Field service was hard as if he was cold, hot, tired, hungry, bored or uncomfortable he would play up and make a fuss. A non autistic child can be encouraged to be polite and not complain on the door but an autistic child will always tell it like it is. I would have to limit first call and then switch to calls or go on calls with just me and the children so that we could do what we could manage without limiting others. Others were obsessed by time so it was a struggle. Assemblies were even worse and often we left early because our son had had enough.
When the elders asked me how they could help me get back to evening meetings I told them that when they could guarantee there would nott be a discussion about God's judgement, murder, death, crime. people dying in flames, earthquakes and other natural diusasters, persecution and violence then we could come as these things played on my sons fears of unlikely events leading to fear and stress. They said that there was no way they could do this. When I said that I could not see a place for my son in the organsiation they agreed with me.
Autistic children are excluded from much of the social scene because other children see them as odd. My son had no friends in the organisation.
I thank my son because he opened my eyes to the casual cruelty and intolerance of an organisation that said it spoke for god. I could not believe that God would set up a place where vulnerble children did not feature.
-
37
Do you think JWs know what apostates really are?
by KateWild inmy friend was slagging off one of my other friends saying they have been known to say apotate things.
she does apostate things herself without realising it.
she meant well because she fears the word apostate as i once did, but she openly says to me my jc was lacking in holy spirit.. she doesn't have a clue what apostacy really is she just wants me not to mix with ones who have been known said "apostate things".
-
-
nugget
JWs are given a very warped definition of an apostate.
1 apostates know that the organisation is the truth but reject it anyway.
2 Apostates are ful of pride and do not want to do the field service because of this proud spirit.
3 apostates want to draw people away from Gods organisation to follow them.
However by saying that you do not believe that the GB are gods representatives on Earth you can be Df'd for apostacy. So by critcising the credentials of the Gb or by choosing to follow an alternative faith or no faith at all you can be called an apostate. This makes a lie of point 1.
If you do not believe what the Watchtower preaches why would you go on field service? It is not pride that keeps you from the door to door work but commion sense.
apostates rarely set up their own religion and I can't think of many who are looking for followers only people who want to be able to live freely and make choices without fear of having loved ones used as hostages.
The society is very good at building fear, when I was a witness I thought apostacy was extremely rare I had no idea that just by having a different point of view to that published by the society I was in danger of being considered an apostate. There is power in words and a great deal of control when people are demonised merely because they question an established point of view. People who leave have to be demonised otherwise others may learn that they have been duped.
-
36
New Circles of Friends Take Time
by KateWild injwn has been great for me.
i think i have deprogrammed pretty quick so far compared to many with all their loved ones in.
i am enjoying meeting up with posters off the board and fbing some too.
-
-
nugget
In the witness world making friends is easy we rarely have to make an effort, in fact witnesses know how to break friendships more easily than make them.
It is possible to make new friends and be a good friend and negotiate the maze of social relationships successfully. It is a learning process for everyone. You situation is complicated and you have a very direct approach which can be open to misinterpretation however you learn from your mistakes and are not fearful of approaching others.
As a single woman you need to keep yourself safe and learn strategies for this as out in the world not everyone has the same objectives you do.