Posts by Wonderment

7

Does anyone know who Ray Franz wrote this letter to? The date?

by Wonderment in

the letter (copy below) was submitted by pixies on 8/13/2006 on page 2 of link below:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/118479/2/a-fair-view-of-fred-franz-translation-abilities .

here is some further observations by ray franz in response to a question regarding his uncle fw franz-s translating abilities:.

Wonderment

jamiebowers:

Excuse me, but I could not find the above letter in that link. What I did find was a heavy distortion of facts, and outright lies. That is not a reliable site at all.

7

Does anyone know who Ray Franz wrote this letter to? The date?

by Wonderment in

the letter (copy below) was submitted by pixies on 8/13/2006 on page 2 of link below:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/118479/2/a-fair-view-of-fred-franz-translation-abilities .

here is some further observations by ray franz in response to a question regarding his uncle fw franz-s translating abilities:.

Wonderment

The letter (copy below) was submitted by Pixies on 8/13/2006 on page 2 of link below:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/118479/2/A-Fair-View-of-Fred-Franz-Translation-Abilities

Here is some further observations by Ray Franz in response to a question regarding his uncle FW Franz-s translating abilities:

"... Fred Franz studied Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati, with high marks, and continued his studies personally thereafter. One need only read the critical notes accompanying the New World Translation to see the extent of his knowledge of Biblical Greek and its grammar. He was self-taught in Hebrew. However, knowing him personally I am satisfied that he was capable of developing a thorough knowledge of the language. He was unusually mentally disciplined. He taught himself Spanish, a language I spoke in Spanish-speaking countries for nearly 20 years. While in Brooklyn, I associated with a Spanish-speaking congregation that he attended. I heard his use of the language both there and, previously, in Spanish speaking countries. Whether in conversational expressions or in public talks that he gave in Spanish I did not once hear him make a single grammatical error. He similarly learned Portuguese and gave talks in that language. He knew German from his childhood (his father having been born in Germany).

On one occasion, while in Cincinnati, I took Fred Franz ( he himself did not drive) to a Hebrew museum which he knew contained a particular Biblical Hebrew manuscript that he wished to research. I stood alongside him while he read through the portions of the Hebrew text he wished to investigate. While working on the Watch Tower’s Bible dictionary Aid to Bible Understanding., on more than one occasion I had to seek out his assistance with reference to Hebrew renderings. He was always able to supply the needed information. In 1971, on a trip to Israel, we visited the Watch Tower’s branch office located in Haifa. A member of the staff there, Dalia Erez, a young Jewish woman, native to the country, did Hebrew translation of the organization’s publications. She spent part of one day discussing with Fred Franz certain translation problems she was experiencing and received his assistance and recommendations. She clearly found his knowledge of Hebrew solid.

His knowledge of Hebrew was not equal to his knowledge of Greek and he was not an advanced or notable Hebrew scholar but his knowledge was sufficient to produce a creditable translation.

Sincerely,

Ray. (end quote) He seems generally miffed that so many people (usually dubious Evangelicals) incorrectly use his footnote in his book to state FW Franz had zero knowledge of Greek, or that he was wholly incapable of makng a translation.

A question for member "Pixies"

by Wonderment in

pixies: some five years ago you posted a letter on the following subject:.

"here is some further observations by ray franz in response to a question regarding his uncle fw franz-s translating abilities: [...letter...].".

i would like to know if you or someone else here know who was the recipient of this letter.. i would appreciate any input on the matter..

Wonderment

Pixies: Some five years ago you posted a letter on the following subject:

"Here is some further observations by Ray Franz in response to a question regarding his uncle FW Franz-s translating abilities: [...Letter...]."

I would like to know if you or someone else here know who was the recipient of this letter.

I would appreciate any input on the matter.

105

2012 Convention Releases

by garlic81 in

jw
friends

post 51 of 52. since 3/27/2009.

google_ad_section_start i can't verify the authenticity of this information as i have not personally attended.

however this is what is posted on another site.. friday:.

Wonderment

Juan Viejo 2:

For the most part, I agree with your observations. I will like to further add that the WTS is very aware that the NWT English is awkward for slavishly following the original languages.

At one time, they replied to Bible translator Steven T.Byington who criticized that very thing, and said to him:

" The translation it produced was meant not merely for good, enjoyable reading but more particularly for use of searching students of God's Word who do not have ready access to Greek dictionaries and exhaustive Bible concordances. […] All in all, the New World Translation shows nothing loose, careless or indifferent about it. It commends itself to those who want to attain a more precise understanding of the inspired writings of Christ's disciples, and thereby to delight themselves more in God's life-giving Word.” “The Christian Century,” May 9, 1951, pp. 587–589 )

The example you cited about the NWT saying: "Jehovah, he himself will..." instead of "Jehovah will..." is a clear instance of the translators wanting to emphasize the original language more than trying to produce a more readable English translation.That is specially noticeable in the Hebrew portion of Scripture.

So I doubt they will rewrite the translation to compete with the NIVs, JBs, TEV, etc. Smooth English is secondary to them. Surprisingly, the NWT translators came up with some more natural renderings at times than did the competition.

105

2012 Convention Releases

by garlic81 in

jw
friends

post 51 of 52. since 3/27/2009.

google_ad_section_start i can't verify the authenticity of this information as i have not personally attended.

however this is what is posted on another site.. friday:.

Wonderment

Slimboyfat said: "Do they have anyone who is capable of revising the NWT?"

If they feel there is a need for updating their translation, they WILL find someone capable of revising the NWT, even if they had to pay an outsider to do it. We would never get to know the intimate details of any of their projects.

There are some on this board, who believe the WTS never had anyone capable for the translation project, or that the Society cannot come up with someone competent to revise their version, but that is not likely. While some scholars hate the NWT (Read: W. Martin, Julius Mantey, Barclay), other scholars who reviewed the NWT never questioned their competence, they just questioned some of their translation choices. It is mostly Evangelicals and some ex-Witnesses spreading this FUD of NWT incompetence.

By the way, I am an ex-Witness. Over 20 years now, away, and have never stepped back to a Kingdom Hall or Convention, nor would I want to. But, if a new revised edition of the NWT gets published, I will certainly check it out with the same scrutiny I pay other Bible translations.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48234022/Did-the-New-World-Translation-Committee-Know-Any-Greek

15

"Truth in Translation" by Jason DeBuhn FREE Download

by My Struggle in

jw
friends

some my be familiar with the website "revelation online" it is a site that put books online for free, usually in pdf format.

i don't know how they do it, but they have been around for years.

well, i was looking at books today and noticed the truth in translation book.. if you are not familiar with this book you have not been a jw in the past year or two(or living under a rock).

Wonderment

I have the book.

BeDuhn's, Alan Duthie's guide to Bible versions and the Frederick Danker's book (Multi-Purpose Books for Bible Study) are the best books around written by level-headed individuals.

There are plenty of others written by emotionally charged Evangelicals set-out to destroy anyone not agreeing with them. I avoid those.

27

Has anyone ever used a non-NWT (New World Translation) bible at meetings / study?

by biometrics in

about 1 year ago (before i faded), i purchased an old king james bible from ebay and started using it in the meetings and when a brother came over to study with me.. a common reaction of fellow jws was to stare at the bible, then say "what type of bible is that?

", then they'd sometimes ask to look at it, and flip to john 1:1. when they saw what it said, they'd treat it like it was apostate material, even though a few decades earler it was the same bible jws used.. i strongly encourage any lurkers/faders to use another bible at the meetings and see what type of reactions you get.. .

.

Wonderment

Leolaia said:

"And yet publications of Jehovah's Witnesses have quoted from these versions in the past whenever it suited their purposes"

Leo: I think in this case is because the publishers of The Living Bible and the New Living Translation may have requested not to be quoted by the WT. I can't think of any other reason. Do you?

I'm sure you know about the Johannes Grebber scandals and the WTS, which in my opinion, has been overblown.

18

YHWH and the English Translation

by allyouneedislove in

so i was doing research on yhwh in the hebrew scriptures.

i see that the wt admits that yahweh is a more accurate hebrew pronunciation of yhwh.. but, is jehovah an acceptable way to translate yahweh into english?

if not, what is the best way to translate yhwh into english?.

Wonderment

Bible translator Joseph Rotherham spent many years singing the virtues of Yahweh over Jehovah. But as he grew older, he changed his mind, and started using Jehovah again. He said in effect that Jehovah is better known and communicates better with modern users.

If the JWs had not made such boisterous noise with the name of Jehovah, many people today would complain far less. Those who insist using LORD only for the Hebrew name might do so out of religious tradition or bias.

25

Prof. Jason BeDuhn letter on the NWT/KIT (part 1)

by bj in

jw
friends

some days ago i asked you if someone wrote to prof j. buduhn who is quoted in the watchtower 1 february 1998, p. 32. here's what i received from him.

as every translation does.

jesus one can say "my god.

Wonderment

Julien said: "Just seems very curious. I for one did not find Countess' book "mostly tendentious and disputable". Of course I am not a Greek scholar [tm]."

When an author imputes a claim the WTS never made, and take them to task for it, you could rightly say ‘tendentious and disputable.’ The claim Countess makes in my words is that, ‘the NWT translators have a rule which states that all nouns without the definite article are indefinite, while those that have the article are always definite.’ Not true! The WTS have never published such rule.

A countercult expert, Robert M. Bowman Jr. (no friend of the WTS) says of Countess' book: "Evangelical critique; some good information, but (in my opinion) not entirely accurate." (Jehovah's Witnesses Bibliography)

22

How To Learn A Second Language, Ideas, Thoughts On Which To Learn?

by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

jw
friends

no doubt there are polyglots on jwn, what do you think the best language to learn is?

spanish, french, german, tagalog or?????.

what language did you find most diffucult to learn, does anyone speak hindi, farsi, arabic or any asian languages?

Wonderment

P.S.

I meant "immerse" yourself in the culture and language you intend to learn, not "submerge" in it.