A little boy will lead them [i.e. the wolf...the leopard...the lion. Is. 11:6-9]

by Wonderment in

don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but i have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of is.

the wt presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.. does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone.

animals are not spoken of living forever in the bible.

Wonderment

Phizzy: "Isaiah was not making a 'Messianic prophecy' at all, he is talking of an incoming King in Israel at the time which he wrote."

At least some do link this account with the future coming age of the Messiah, as shown below:

NIV Study Bible: "11:1 shoot...stump... The Messiah will grow as a shoot from that stump of David's dynasty."

11:6-9 The peace and safety of the Messianic age are reflected in the fact that little children will be unharmed as they play with formerly ferocious animals. Such conditions are a description of the future consummation of the Messianic kingdom See 2:2-4; 35:9; 65:20-25 and notes; Eze 34:25-29."

NIV Zondervan Study Bible (Edited by D.A. Carson): "11:6-9 A description of the Messianic kingdom."

The Expositor's Bible Commentary (Barker/Kohlenberger III): "The Davidic King and His Peaceful Reign (11:1-9) The Messianic theme reappears, having been out of sight since 9:7; it is taken up at precisely the point where it was left before, because the Davidic throne is implied in the reference to Jesse, David's father, and the effective zeal of the Lord Almighty in the richly empowering Spirit of the Lord."

The IVP Bible Background Commentary: "11:1-16 The Future Davidic King and His Kingdom."

The MacArthur Study Bible: "11:6-9 Such [conditions of peace] will characterize the future millennial kingdom in which the Prince of Peace (9:6) will reign."

The New Oxford Annotated Bible: "11:6-9: The messianic king (compare 9:2-7)...The Messiah will manifest the characteristics of those who were great in Israel...)."

The Jerusalem Bible: "A messianic poem describing in some detail the salient characteristics of the coming Messiah."

There are, however, other interpretations to this passage that have been published.

13

New Translation Record as 13 Bibles Are Released in One Weekend

by Wonderment in

new translation record as 13 bibles are released in one weekend:.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/new-translation-record-as-13-bibles-are-released-in-one-weekend/.

Wonderment

Athanasius: "So instead of a real Bible translation as they claim, the Watchtower is actually publishing a translation of their English version Bible into these languages."

For the most part this is true. However, The WT claim that these other translations are based on the English Version, but referencing the Original languages appear to be also true, at least with the major languages. The few times I have checked various NWT vernacular versions (i.e., French, Modern Greek, Italian, Portuguese & Spanish) in the past, I have found various readings in these that are not English equivalents per se. In other words, these translations are adaptations of the English to the target languages, and some of the final readings may actually turn out to be closer to the original languages than the English source.

Furthermore, English versions (like Good News Bible, Living Bible, NIV, etc.), when translated into other languages, may not be, for the most part, fresh translations in the full sense either, for they depend heavily on the English versions they are sourced from. We cannot expect that each of these vernacular versions are to be translated verse-by-verse from scratch from the original source by a group of translators with a different criteria. To do so would be more costly, and time-consuming. To reach the uniformity the publishers seek, the academic translators are more likely to use the English source as a guide, and make adaptations from the original languages to the local needs as they go along. Remember, making sounding claims is one thing, but what they do in practice is another matter.

10

A little boy will lead them [i.e. the wolf...the leopard...the lion. Is. 11:6-9]

by Wonderment in

don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but i have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of is.

the wt presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.. does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone.

animals are not spoken of living forever in the bible.

Wonderment

TD:

Thanks for your response on the Greek!

I find Classical Greek quite intimidating, and Modern Greek more appealing.

Looking forward to your contributions here.

10

A little boy will lead them [i.e. the wolf...the leopard...the lion. Is. 11:6-9]

by Wonderment in

don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but i have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of is.

the wt presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.. does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone.

animals are not spoken of living forever in the bible.

Wonderment

TD:

Thank you, thank you for these posts! They are a fascinating read! I will read them again.

On a different subject, I am assuming you know Greek, since you have variously posted material in Greek. If so, I would like to know where you picked it up. Again, I don't recall seeing any disclosure on the subject on your part.

10

A little boy will lead them [i.e. the wolf...the leopard...the lion. Is. 11:6-9]

by Wonderment in

don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but i have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of is.

the wt presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.. does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone.

animals are not spoken of living forever in the bible.

Wonderment

Don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but I have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this Messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of Is. 11:6-9 of various). The WT presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.

Does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone. Animals are not spoken of living forever in the Bible. It has been said that most wild animals do not die of old age, rather they die by being eaten alive by predators, or by other factors within their harsh environment. If so, how could their populations be practically contained, that is, if limitations common to their hostile environment are potentially removed in a restored paradise?

What are we then to belief from this passage from Isaiah ? Will these animals stop being "wild" in paradise? Any comments are appreciated beforehand.

13

New Translation Record as 13 Bibles Are Released in One Weekend

by Wonderment in

new translation record as 13 bibles are released in one weekend:.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/new-translation-record-as-13-bibles-are-released-in-one-weekend/.

Wonderment

A couple of observations could be made here from this WTS announcement.

First, the Society, although obviously cutting expenses lately in many areas, this does not seem to hold true of the VIDEOS Department, and the Bible Translation projects. These still seem to be going forward at full speed.

Secondly, as poster hoser noted above, not all these translations are of complete Bibles. However, if recent past WT translation practices are of any indication, we can expect them to finish their started projects in due time.

Thirdly, what's monumental about these announcements, is that they are introducing Bible translations in rare languages, whether we agree with WT practices or not. Even religious adversaries can potentially benefit from these publications eventually, since they would have one more incentive to follow up with their own evangelical versions.

For some of us, this may be irrelevant, but in other sparse languages any new publication added in their field is a big plus to their communities. The Divine Name (Is. 42.8) also gets further prominence, after being intentionally obscured by religious leaders for ages.

And fourth, no matter how much WT adversaries disparage their translation efforts, the fact is that no other single religious entity -as far as I know- has gone-as-far as translating one single Version into other 200 languages, in whole or in part. For instance, by being the first to publish the complete English Bible in Sign Language, and now extending this effort into other languages.

Now, if we could get the WTS to tame down their authoritarian structure, and be kinder to those holding other opinions, then we would not be so indifferent to the notorious WT legalistic ways.

13

New Translation Record as 13 Bibles Are Released in One Weekend

by Wonderment in

new translation record as 13 bibles are released in one weekend:.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/new-translation-record-as-13-bibles-are-released-in-one-weekend/.

Wonderment

New Translation Record as 13 Bibles Are Released in One Weekend:

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/New-Translation-Record-as-13-Bibles-Are-Released-in-One-Weekend/

41

Fascinating Quotations of The Faithful Slave

by Vanderhoven7 in

do you have any amazing quotations that have been produced by the faithful slave over the years?.

remember it's important that we should learn to love and value truth for it’s own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomever presented.

a truth presented by the faithful slave himself is just as true as a truth stated by god.. share some of those amazing quotations that have fascinated you.

Wonderment

Thanks Vanderhoven7 for the interesting and useful quotes!

24

Which Bible Translation.....

by BoogerMan in

jw
friends

....is the best, in your opinion?.

out of the numerous translations i've had/used, i can honestly state that the 2001 translation is head & shoulders above all the others i've ever consulted, imo.

the publishers even invite suggestions/corrections to be submitted.

Wonderment

dropoffyourkeylee: "The WT produced and still has (on their app) a Greek Interlinear, but they have never produced a Hebrew Interlinear."

I once asked Albert Schroeder if the Society had any intention in producing a Hebrew-English Interlinear, and he responded at the time by saying that there already was an excellent H-E Interlinear on the market. He was referring to the NIV Hebrew-English Interlinear Old Testament.

But I suspect that Schroeder was justifying their lack of interest in producing their own WT Hebrew Interlinear since he hinted at the same time that the Old Testament was less of an area of controversy than the more ubiquitous and popular New Testament.

Some may conclude the Society does not have anyone capable enough to tackle a Hebrew-English Interlinear, but I don't think this is the real reason for the lack of one. Actually, if history is any indication, when the Society sets their mind to it, they will find the way to get it done. The WTS recently published the COMPLETE NWT in modern Hebrew. This is no small task, and a rare one I might add, since there is only a small number of Witnesses in the land of Israel.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/israel/Complete-New-World-Translation-Released-in-Modern-Hebrew/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_translations_into_Hebrew

https://www.jw.org/he/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94/%D7%9E%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%90/nwt/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/

3

Watchtower tweaks "religion" out of Samaritan parable

by Wonderment in

the watchtower writing staff often tweaks the application of a scriptural lesson to their benefit.

this can be seen in this recent article of theirs: .

first, in their explanation of the parable, they do mention "religion" in the original setting (bold letters below): .

Wonderment

The Watchtower writing staff often tweaks the application of a Scriptural lesson to their benefit. This can be seen in this recent article of theirs:

What Does It Mean to Be a “Good Samaritan”?

First, in their explanation of the parable, they do mention "religion" in the original setting (Bold letters below):

Jesus told the story to a man who thought that only people of his own race and religion were his neighbors. Jesus wanted to teach the man an important lesson—that he needed to expand his concept of “neighbor” to include more than just his fellow Jews. (Luke 10:36, 37) This account was included in the Bible for the benefit of everyone who wants to please God.—2 Timothy 3:16, 17.

But then, when they apply this parable to the modern setting, they make a slight adjustment in their explanation, like so:

The story teaches that a good neighbor demonstrates compassion by action. He or she responds to the needs of a person who is suffering—regardless of that person’s background, race, or nationality. A genuine neighbor acts toward others as he would like to be treated himself.—Matthew 7:12.

The WT left the word "religion" out in the application of the illustration. Coincidence? Hardly! It's like they would rather not have their followers be "compassionate by action" to members of another faith, that is, to expand the concept of “neighbor” to include other religious people.

What's your take on this?

Wonderment

Posts by Wonderment

What Does It Mean to Be a “Good Samaritan”?