Wonderment

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Posts by Wonderment

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  8

  Request for Research . . .

  by Bobcat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the wt study 4/5/15 quotes from the new interpreter's dictionary of the bible.

  the quote is "things like plot, story, narrative development, and character are not really of prime interest.

  " it is located in paragraph 6 on page 29. .

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  Wonderment

  Bobcat,

  I have a set mail-ordered, and may have it in a week or so. Just in case you are willing to wait, I'll be more than happy to meet your request.
  
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  4

  What keeps me away from the JWs religion!

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are a few things that have kept me away from the jws organizaction.

  these are the most prominent.. 1. jesus has been pushed aside, and replaced by the governing body.

  wrong!!!!!!.

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  Wonderment

  There are a few things that have kept me away from the JWs organizaction. These are the most prominent.

  1. Jesus has been pushed aside, and replaced by the governing body. WRONG!!!!!!

  2. The JW ecosystem overall is pharisaical. The whole system promotes a critical and judgmental spirit. Not pleasant to be a Witness at all.
  

  3. Doctrines imposed on the flock by force. The 1914 doctrine, the blood doctrine, and birthdays, to name a few, should be left to the conscience. These should not be mandatory.

  4. The disfellowshipping and shunning practice is appalling. It causes untold damage to family members. Tell me about it! I have been a victim of it for more than 20 years.
  

  Is there anything positive? Yes, the religion can make you feel like we have the answers to many questions. But then, this turns negative. It is an illusion. It is not true. No one on earth have all the answers. Jesus Christ is the way to God. Not a group of Christians claiming to have the Keys to the Kingdom.

  My reaction to the New World Translation has been mostly positive. I really like this version, but then again, I feel nearly the same way with other versions.

  Any WT efforts to lure me back with a published brochure (Rumor has it that one is coming up for release) will fall flat on its face. To WT leaders: Stop the nonsense! Change the fricking system if you want us to listen to you.
  
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  6

  New Portuguese rendering of John 8:58 in Revised Edition NWT

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  previous rendering of john 8:58: jesus ldisse-hes : digo-vos em toda a verdade: antes de abraao vir a existencia, eu tenho sido.. new rendering: jesus lhes disse: digo-lhes com toda a certeza: antes de abraao vir a existencia, eu ja existia.. i am calling attention to the words in bold letters.

  the previous rendering: "i have been.

  the new reading: "i already existed.

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  Wonderment

  wifibandit: "Three non JW translations and the Greek have it as : I AM. The JW versions show: I have been. Or I already was." "This change is not a minor one if you look at it from the optic of those who think Jesus = I AM WHAT I AM."

  One common misconception in Bible translation, is that to be faithful, one must transfer the original language sayings to the receptor language word-for-word. Not necessarily! Over all, one has to take into account the context, and whether there is an existing flag somewhere in the text that could point to another understanding. This is what happens with John 8:58.
  

  For example, Jesus said to Philip word-for-word in John 14.9: "So much time with you I am and not you have known me Philip?" Now, how should one to render this in standard English? Try it!

  As to the statement about those who think of Jesus as the "I am what I am." I cannot find that statement anywhere associated with Jesus Christ. But I did find that Paul, a Christian follower, said (that is, if we take his words out of context): "I am what I am." (1 Cor. 15:10) Isn't it ironic that we find Paul enunciating those words, yet there is no record of Jesus Christ ever saying those words? At most, we find Jesus saying "I am" with a variety of nuances.
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  6

  New Portuguese rendering of John 8:58 in Revised Edition NWT

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  previous rendering of john 8:58: jesus ldisse-hes : digo-vos em toda a verdade: antes de abraao vir a existencia, eu tenho sido.. new rendering: jesus lhes disse: digo-lhes com toda a certeza: antes de abraao vir a existencia, eu ja existia.. i am calling attention to the words in bold letters.

  the previous rendering: "i have been.

  the new reading: "i already existed.

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  Wonderment

  wifibandit:

  Is this not the same scripture that WT got in trouble for using Johannes Greber (spirit medium) as a source in translation?!

  That's a loaded question! The WTS did not base their translation on Greber's version. They merely quoted Greber as one scholar who rendered John 1:1 the same way as they did.

  What's the relevance of these other quotes from various versions of John 8:58 to the Portuguese version?
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  6

  New Portuguese rendering of John 8:58 in Revised Edition NWT

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  previous rendering of john 8:58: jesus ldisse-hes : digo-vos em toda a verdade: antes de abraao vir a existencia, eu tenho sido.. new rendering: jesus lhes disse: digo-lhes com toda a certeza: antes de abraao vir a existencia, eu ja existia.. i am calling attention to the words in bold letters.

  the previous rendering: "i have been.

  the new reading: "i already existed.

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  Wonderment

  Previous rendering of John 8:58:
  Jesus ldisse-hes : “Digo-vos em toda a verdade: Antes de Abraão vir à existência, eu tenho sido.”

  New rendering: Jesus lhes disse: “Digo-lhes com toda a certeza: Antes de Abraão vir à existência, eu já existia.”

  I am calling attention to the words in bold letters.

  The previous rendering: "I have been."

  The NEW reading: "I already existed." Or: "I was already existing."
  

  They went from a perfect indicative to the imperfect indicative (Pretérito imperfeito).

  Any comments?

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  62

  NAILING DOWN the fraud of John 1:1 by demonstration

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  call me crazy, but i love to watch seminary classes when sharp teachers are in charge of the instruction.. in the following video, the teacher really nails jehovah's witnesses on john 1:1 with utter simplicity.. begin at 1 hour and 20 minutes in.. i've never seen or heard of this before.. .

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  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5qkj7tmbg.

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  Wonderment

  If I understand TerryWalstrom and TD correctly about their conveying that Interlinears carry some unforeseen dangers to the untrained Bible student, I kind of agree with them.

  Interlinears can be a useful tool to people conscious of their limitations, but see a potential in advancing their Greek knowledge with some further help. I heard of someone who learned Greek just from using the Kingdom Interlinear constantly. This person used an index card below the Greek lines, and in time, began to grasp the sense of what he was reading, until he felt comfortable without the translation underneath. I imagine he used other reference sources to aid him in his quest as well. I know someone close to me who is using the Greek text directly to advance his language skills. He also owns the Kingdom Interlinear Translation in his collection of books.
  

  Plenty of people condemn their usage, but some others use them to their advantage. As the saying goes, each to his own.
  
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  62

  NAILING DOWN the fraud of John 1:1 by demonstration

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  call me crazy, but i love to watch seminary classes when sharp teachers are in charge of the instruction.. in the following video, the teacher really nails jehovah's witnesses on john 1:1 with utter simplicity.. begin at 1 hour and 20 minutes in.. i've never seen or heard of this before.. .

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  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5qkj7tmbg.

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  Wonderment

  jhine:

  My reference of "bystanders" was related to anyone "looking in" at the commotion created by "Christians" who spend countless energy and time at issues (like Jn 1.1, and many other controversial Scriptures), who at the end have their faith weakened or lose faith altogether in the religious system, or even in the Bible. This website is a testimony to that, where we see many here pronouncing attacks at the Bible itself, and to any or all religious groups who don't wear the same brand of interpretation as theirs.

  I say this as an observation only, because I myself participate in these forums at times, so I am not condemning everyone for it. Our faith in God and his Word is being tested from all angles.
  
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  62

  NAILING DOWN the fraud of John 1:1 by demonstration

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  call me crazy, but i love to watch seminary classes when sharp teachers are in charge of the instruction.. in the following video, the teacher really nails jehovah's witnesses on john 1:1 with utter simplicity.. begin at 1 hour and 20 minutes in.. i've never seen or heard of this before.. .

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  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5qkj7tmbg.

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  Wonderment

  jwfacts: " [JW's] Admitting the Word is a God still makes their religion polytheistic, which is the issue that the Trinity sets out to solve."
  

  This is the same line that Trinitiarians keep spewing out. And the JW's keep repeating that the "a god" rendition is not polytheistic, but that it is used in the sense of "divineness."

  Somehow these two groups never come to an agreement, and bystanders faith are being weakened, or even loose their faith in the process of seeing this spectable of bickering. That's what Satan wants.
  
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  62

  NAILING DOWN the fraud of John 1:1 by demonstration

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  call me crazy, but i love to watch seminary classes when sharp teachers are in charge of the instruction.. in the following video, the teacher really nails jehovah's witnesses on john 1:1 with utter simplicity.. begin at 1 hour and 20 minutes in.. i've never seen or heard of this before.. .

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  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5qkj7tmbg.

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  Wonderment

  TD: "First of all, it's absurd to talk about an interlinear and a translation in the same breath. An interlinear is not a translation and most professors will throw you out of class and give you a failing grade if they catch you with an interlinear."

  
  

  Just curious. Do you have any use for interlinears? Do you see a common Bible reader obtaining any benefit from them?
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  62

  NAILING DOWN the fraud of John 1:1 by demonstration

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  call me crazy, but i love to watch seminary classes when sharp teachers are in charge of the instruction.. in the following video, the teacher really nails jehovah's witnesses on john 1:1 with utter simplicity.. begin at 1 hour and 20 minutes in.. i've never seen or heard of this before.. .

  .

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5qkj7tmbg.

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  Wonderment

  I try to obtain every interlinear translation available. But I find most Interlinears of little use except three of them. The following three Interlinears I like:

  Kingdom Interlinear

  Word Study Greek-English NT, by Paul R. McReynolds

  Concordant Greek Text

  Why? Because the translators try hard to be true to the grammatical structure of the Greek Text, are fairly consistent, and show subltle nuances of words. Simpler said than done! In the end, they are quite useful.

  Most others are a mess. The translators of the other Interlinears do not always place the English equivalent rendering under the Greek words. They omit translating words not necessary in English, and add words when the Greek is not clear. Some may say: "But that is how a true translation works." Yes, an no!

  We have hundreds of versions that attempt to convey the overall meaning of the original, and most do that well. But an interlinear is different. They are expected to convey in English what the Greek Text does say, literally. By nature, an interlinear is supposed to be more discriminating in renditions, and pay closer attention to precision and subleties. Interlinears are not supposed to be paraphrases, but some interlinears are just loose translations showing the Greek Text, and not precisely.

  The Mounce Interlinear is needlessly complicated. The CGT is complicated, but careful in the translation work. The best two overall, in my opinion, are the KI and McReynolds. Of course, I realize that that is a personal choice. I am sure others will choose Alfred Marshall's, Philip Comfort's, or some other Interlinears as top choices. And that is fine with me. Anyways, people normally end up making their translation choices based on theological preferences, and that, over true accuracy.