Locutus, I mean SD-7, I am very excited to hear what happens. I sincerely hope you don't have to live any lies. That's not fun or healthy for anyone. Best wishes again to you.
Aeiouy
JoinedPosts by Aeiouy
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31
Borg cubes inbound!
by sd-7 inwell, as my suspicious side suspected, my wife has rather suddenly flipped the script on me.
she got confused after i explained reality to her, and by coincidence the elders are now going to do a shepherding call on us.
after having read my e-mail (see 'drawing disciples after myself?
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How many of you were baptised at a young age?
by lepermessiah inone thing this site has made me reflect on the baptism practice in jw land.. many of us were raised in the religion, thus you were given the pressure early on to shoot for baptism as a goal.. i remember feeling bad because i waited until the ripe old age of 14 to take the plunge.. looking back, i realize that when i was 14, i didnt even know what my favorite color was, let alone have enough knowledge to make a life altering decision.
yet, growing up in that climate, i would say anyone who waited past their early teens to get baptised was viewed with great suspicion and was likely to be viewed as "bad association".
kids who took the dip at 8-9 years of age were viewed as "wise beyond their years" and the like.. how old were some of you when you were baptised, and what are your feelings on the matter?.
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Aeiouy
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New arrangement for hand-drying at district conventions - KM February 2010
by Gopher innew arrangement for hand-drying at district conventions.
in our efforts to simplify arrangements and reduce costs, the society is pleased to announce a new arrangement that will take effect at the annual district conventions starting with the keep on the watch even longer convention in the summer of 2010. the society needs to carefully allocate its resources so that the worldwide work can continue to grow and that the society can defend itself from legal challenges instigated by our opposers.. effective this summer, the number of paper towels allowed per visit in the restrooms at convention sites will be reduced from one to zero.
we do not think our dear brothers and sisters will notice the difference.
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Aeiouy
Guys, my friend just got DF'd. He had his JC meeting last week. Apparently someone saw him using toilet paper to dry his hands and ratted him o- I mean, lovingly told the Elders™. He was unrepentant. Damn fool threw his whole life away just so he could dry his hands on some toilet paper. I tell ya it's true. People don't leave the Truth over doctrine, it's always over conduct like this. *Sniffle*
Aeiouy
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Your worst field service experience.
by littlebird inmy worst field service experience was this.. i didn't have a car at the time and so a pioneer sister was picking me up of service every couple of days.
she was my partner and i got a door where the woman was clearly not interested.
as i am stepping away the pioneer sister starts in with all the objection stoppers.
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Aeiouy
My very first day that I went in service. I was 5 or 6 years old. I had just become a publisher. I knocked on the door and started my presentation. The man slammed the door on me and called the cops. We had to sit there for around 20 minutes in the car while my mom and dad had their licenses ran. Of course, this was looked at as a sign. I was especially righteous, so Satan was trying extra hard to discourage me from continuing. We slapped him in the face and kept going door to door. God we were good little witnesses. Oh the pride we had.
Aeiouy
Edit: Magwitch you have a message.
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Would YOU Stop Wearing Cologne Or Perfume At A KH If Someone Had Allergies?
by minimus inwe had a few that would start coughing if someone wore a fragrance.
they would make a big deal about anyone wearing cologne and say such ones were not loving and considerate.
some elders would recommend that witnesses should not wear any cologne or perfume, if they loved their brother or sister.
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Aeiouy
I am naturally pleasantly oderiferous. I would not want to cover up my delectable aura with an unnatural aroma.
Aeiouy
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Borg cubes inbound!
by sd-7 inwell, as my suspicious side suspected, my wife has rather suddenly flipped the script on me.
she got confused after i explained reality to her, and by coincidence the elders are now going to do a shepherding call on us.
after having read my e-mail (see 'drawing disciples after myself?
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Aeiouy
LMAO. I love that picture Mickey Mouse.
Hope all goes well SD-7. I will read your followup with interest. Sending mental waves of support your way. (Whatever mental waves of support are.....)
Aeiouy
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Help me get my mom out!!!!
by Aeiouy inyou didn't make yourself that way and you weren't "just born" that way.
your personality will be changed by the world, there is no getting around it.
i have loved you since before you were born.
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Aeiouy
So here is the email I just received from my mother. If you look at some past posts of mine, you can see the whole story. I am currently reading Hassan's book, and will not reply until I'm finished with that. But I was wondering if there were any suggestions from the community on how to respond to this. I don't want to shut her down. I want to reply without setting off the apostate alarm, but still get through to her. Here's my email, and then hers. Cheerios.
Aeiouy
Ok first I wanted to mention this Watchtower. I thought it was in an older volume but turns out it was 1972.
*** w721/1pp.31-32QuestionsFromReaders***
QuestionsFromReaders
?DohomosexualactsonthepartofamarriedpersonconstituteaScripturalgroundfordivorce,freeingtheinnocentmatetoremarry?—U.S.A.
Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: “Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.”—Matt. 19:9.
Thus “fornication” is seen to be the only ground for divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.
The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.
It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 “fornication” is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that “everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution or adultery.
The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became “one flesh,” and then added: “What God has yoked together let no man put apart.” (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could never become “one flesh” in order to procreate. It might be added, in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: “Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.”—1 Cor. 15:39.
While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual “one flesh” with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.
So the way I understand this, (and this policy has changed since 1972, both are now considered porneia) is that if a Christian wife's husband decided he was going to have sex with a man or an animal, because of their interpretation, she was NOT free to remarry. She was required to either stay married to her husband, or divorce on unscriptural grounds, and not remarry. How many people were wrongly disfellowshipped because of this rule? Or how many women had to stay with their homosexual husbands because they were told not to divorce and remarry? I can't accept that God's channel would allow a policy like this.
Now for those other references. They are long so you can look them up in the CD-rom if you want.
w72 734-736 Oral sex was a disfellowshipping matter.
w78 02/15 p. 30-32 Oral sex was NOT a disfellowshipping matter. Here is part of this QFR:
Beyond these basic guidelines the Scriptures do not go and, hence, we cannot do more than counsel in harmony with what the Bible does say. In the past some comments have appeared in this magazine in connection with certain unusual sex practices, such as oral sex, within marriage and these were equated with gross sexual immorality. On this basis the conclusion was reached that those engaging in such sex practices were subject to disfellowshiping if unrepentant. The view was taken that it was within the authority of congregational elders to investigate and act in a judicial capacity regarding such practices in the conjugal relationship.
A careful further weighing of this matter, however, convinces us that, in view of the absence of clear Scriptural instruction, these are matters for which the married couple themselves must bear the responsibility before God and that these marital intimacies do not come within the province of the congregational elders to attempt to control nor to take disfellowshiping action with such matters as the sole basis. Of course, if any person chooses to approach an elder for counsel he or she may do so and the elder can consider Scriptural principles with such a one, acting as a shepherd but not attempting to, in effect, “police” the marital life of the one inquiring.
w83 03/15 p. 30-31 Oral sex is yet again a disfellowshipping matter.
What, though, if one mate wants or even demands to share with his or her partner in what is clearly a perverted sex practice? The above-presented facts show that porneia involves unlawful sexual conduct outside the marital arrangement. Thus, a mate’s enforcing perverted acts, such as oral or anal sex, within the marriage would not constitute a Scriptural basis for a divorce that would free either for remarriage. Even though a believing mate is distressed by the situation, yet that one’s endeavor to hold to Scriptural principles will result in a blessing from Jehovah. In such cases it may be helpful for the couple to discuss the problem frankly, bearing in mind especially that sexual relations should be honorable, wholesome, an expression of tenderlove. This certainly should exclude anything that might distress or harm one’s mate.—Ephesians 5:28-30; 1 Peter 3:1, 7.
As already stated, it is not for elders to “police” the private marital matters of couples in the congregation. However, if it becomes known that a member of the congregation is practicing or openly advocating perverted sex relations within the marriage bond, that one certainly would not be irreprehensible, and so would not be acceptable for special privileges, such as serving as an elder, a ministerial servant or a pioneer. Such practice and advocacy could even lead to expulsion from the congregation. Why?
This is the current understanding. Like I said, I can't believe that God's organization would one minute say it's wrong and can be disfellowshiped for it, the next say it's ok, then the next say it's wrong again.
I'm not telling you this to prove anything. I am telling you this so you can see that I have done my research, and maybe see that my motives are not wanting to date and be a worldly person. There are things that I just can't accept. If you are ok with this, that's great for you. Everybody has to make a decision about what they believe. Personally, this bothers me too much. Maybe you can at least see why I feel the way I do, based on what the Society has printed. Anyways
I look forward to seeing you again.
Love,
Tyler
------------------- REPLY
Dear Tyler, I have read your email and now want to respond. The brothers at Bethel and the literature is NOT inspired by God. The Bible is. To think that there would at some point not be corrections or adjustments that need to be made is unreasonable. Jehovah is using imperfect people today but the brothers are doing the best they can to at least try to offer moral guidance in today's increasingly immoral world. The churches aren't doing that. If you are finding fault with the guidance, I think it more likely that the problem lies with you, that you are grasping for something to support what you are doing when your conscience is screaming at you that it is wrong. It doesn't surprise me that the articles you sent appeared in the 70's. I was a teenager at that time. It was a period of time that has been called the sexual revolution. While there was immorality before that time it didn't really come out in the open like it did during that period. You can see it by watching movies from that time. Many people in the world threw all restraint out the window and began to say that it didn't matter what you did as far as sex is concerned. It was also a time of great increase in the organization. There were barely one million witnesses at that time but many people studying. Some were coming in the truth and trying to bring their immoral practices with them so guidance needed to be given to keep the organization clean morally and keep the disgusting, demonic, animalistic practices of the world out. You mentioned "what about the poor people who were disfellowshipped" at that time. You know as well as I do that no one is just disfellowshipped and thrown out without great attempts to help that person readjust their viewpoint. If someone did fail to listen and had to be removed from the congregation, hopefully they readjusted their view, changed their life and came back. Statistics show the majority do. Jehovah knows his sheep and will not let any be lost that are willing to live by his moral standards. I appreciate the moral guidance we receive to help us in a world that is becoming more and more depraved. I read in the paper yesterday that there are new video games coming out that will involve even more sex. Satan is seeing to it that more and more people and young ones find the increasingly depraved views acceptable. The organization is the only place you are going to find sound guidance on morality. When you were last here, I told you that it doesn't surprise me that you got the award you received. I hope that you realize why you are the way you are. You weren't born that way. None of us are. Your personality has been shaped by the experiences you have had in life. You have received A LOT of positive reinforcement at the Kingdom Hall as a result of being raised a witness. The brothers and sisters have loved you and responded to you in many positive ways. You have received much praise for being a regular pioneer, had numerous parts on assemblies, helped with Kingdom Hall construction and met new people, gone to an International Convention and met new people, gone to Mexico and met new people, had many privileges in the congregation and the list goes on. All of the positive reactions of others toward you have helped to make you who you are. It is the thing that attracts people to you and no doubt what attracted Sarah to you. You didn't make yourself that way and you weren't "just born" that way. It is because you are so well loved by others that no on at the hall can believe the choices you are making. They say "not Tyler". It has hurt a lot of people. You remember how happy you were when Phillip came back so you know that what you do affects other people. It makes me sad that you are willing to throw all your spiritual family and friends away. As I said, no doubt Sarah was attracted to you in the first place because of your personality. You are different. Of course the reason is because you were raised a Witness. Now she wants to change you. Now you are willing to become like the world. But Tyler, you were raised a witness. You have a conscience that was trained by Bible principles. You know right & wrong. Every time you go against your conscience, it is going to bother you. Your personality will be changed by the world, there is no getting around it. It is not worth it to give up the truth for someone. I have to wonder if she told you she wouldn't date you if you are a witness. I also have to wonder if you've been speaking with apostates or reading apostate literature. And now for the way your decision has affected me-your mother. I cry every single day. I am back to praying every day to die because it hurts too bad to live and breathe. You are the only family I had left and now you've decided to throw me away too. We have done a lot together, gone a lot of places together and been through a lot together. I have loved you since before you were born. I have tried to do the best I could to raise you and guide you. I tried the best I knew how to protect you from the madman we lived with. You were the one I depended on. While it is true I have the brothers at the hall, it is not the same as flesh and blood. I feel abandoned. It makes me very sad that you are willing to throw your relationship with me away for some girl who will only like you if you change and become what she wants you to be. Most of all it makes me sad that you are willing to throw your relationship with Jehovah away. It just doesn't make any sense. You may be happy for a while but I believe that eventually you will see everything that you have lost. You can't just throw your whole life up to this point away. I will always be your mom and I will always love you. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Aeiouy
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Question from readers - Generation
by Albert Einstein inwt question from readers wt 11/15/2011.
is it proper to use the term "iam 3rd generation witness" in the light of the new understnding of the term "generation"?.
no, it is unscriptural now.
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Aeiouy
This progressive understanding, the "Light Getting Brighter™", is not, however, in support of the Trinity. While it is true that 3 different generations are in fact, not 3, but one, this does not hold true with God. It evidently is Grandfather the first generation, Father the first generation, and Son the first generation. Some have been over-zealous in their personal study, coming to conclusions that do not support the facts, or are out of line with established Bible truths. Regrettably, this New Light™ has been taken by some to mean that we, the one true Spirit Directed™ organization on earth, support the teaching of the Trinity. This could not be further from the truth....
Aeiouy
Oh yeah. This makes sense.
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Wireless Router advice...BEST one with Comcast??
by WuzLovesDubs ingawd im frustrated.
all i want to do is get online and have it stay online.
i have had two wireless routers since only may and cant seem to get online and retain connection or any kind of "speed" and i use that term very loosely...and want to know what wireless routers you guys recommend.. comcast came out and said my signal was strong and that they are happily going to charge me for coming out and telling me so since it wasnt a comcast "problem".
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Aeiouy
Best router out of the box is hands down the Linksys WRT54GL. Walmart carries a similar model, but do not get it. It is the WRT54G. Notice the 'L' is missing. the L stand for Linux, meaning it is running on Linux firmware. This router is excellent out of the box. You can find it on newegg. Also, because of its design, you can install 3rd party firmware as well. I have this router with Tomato firmware installed. I can play online games, have utorrent running, and surf the web all at the same time with no noticeable slowdown. Shoot me a tell if you need help setting it up.
I've also used Belkin and D-link, but the routers I had both lost the connection about twice a day. I have yet to lose the connection with my Linksys, and it's been running for over a year now.
Aeiouy
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NEW GENERATION DEFINED -- April 15, 2010 Watchtower
by Ultimate Reality infrom jw.org, here is the new definition of the generation from the april 15, 2010 watchtower.. .
article: holy spirits role in the outworking of jehovahs purpose.
13 third, holy spirit is at work in bringing bible.
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Aeiouy
Wait a minute wait a minute. I'm confused. This could be very enlightening. So does this mean that "I" am of the 1914 generation? So now I can say that my Great Grandma and myself are of the same "generation"? Of course! That makes perfect sense! Why didn't we receive this new Light earlier........
Aeiouy