Former, you have a PM. (You click on the envelope at the top right of the screen to read them). If you get an error page, so you just pres "back" on your web browser and re-click.
Posts by pirata
-
79My Experiences
by Former ini'm a former ministerial servant and bethelite that left about six months ago.
my stay at bethel ended one year ago.
for those interested, this is my story:.
-
-
-
3
"consecrating the children to God" in 1922
by chasson ina curious practice i have never known in a convention: (wt 1922/07/15 p. 213).
"on sunday morning brother rutherford conducted a question meeting, following which there was a consecration of children.
a great many children were on this occasion publicly presented by their parents to the lord.
-
-
pirata
Awesome find. Thanks!
-
14
On the Governing Body -- Then and Now
by sd-7 injanuary 1, 1929 watchtower:.
"no one knew more about the church than its great teacher paul.
it may be said that no man ever exercised so much authority in the church as he.
-
-
pirata
sd-7, have you read "In Search of Christian Freedom"? I am currently reading it and really enjoying it. It has multiple chapters devoted to the development of the idea of a central Governing Body in the organization. Ray also relates it to the development of the papacy in the "great apostasy".
Thanks for the geat quotes!
-
79
My Experiences
by Former ini'm a former ministerial servant and bethelite that left about six months ago.
my stay at bethel ended one year ago.
for those interested, this is my story:.
-
-
pirata
Former, welcome to the board and thank you so much for your experience. I hope you stay around here for a long time to come!
-
39
Question for Board/Current JWs re Holy Spirit/holy spirit...
by AGuest inmay you all have peace!.
in another post, a dear one mentioned that a jw relative ceased being... ummmm... contentious, when the dear one told her that, after praying about it, they were allowing themselves "to be guided by holy spirit and not doctrine from a man-made organization.
" that the latter felt "wrong.
-
-
pirata
I do not consciously believe I have felt the Holy Spirit, at least not in the way the Bible describes it as working in a clearly recognizable way on an individual. I think most JWs have not felt it either.
As far as I can tell, most JWs figure they are following the lead of the Holy Spirit through the Governing Body by following it's directions.
I think that for most JWs, it does not computer if someone outside the organization hears the Holy Spirit. They cannot fathom how anyone outside the organization would have the holy spirit, therefore may assume it is the demons or mental issues. The only exception I can think of is their belief that when a non-JW prays for guidance, then the spirit may impel a witness to go to their door to preach.
Some articles to back up my thoughts that the general message is that the Holy Spirit mainly works through the Governing Body
(WT July 15, 2010) When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of “the faithful and discreet slave” at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. (Matt. 24:45; 1 Cor. 2:13) The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. (Acts 15:6) What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all. (Matt.10:27) As time goes on, further clarifications may be needed, and these too are honestly explained.
*** w87 8/1 p. 12 par. 10 Christ Actively Leads His Congregation ***
10 Christ personally supervised the preaching work. By means of the holy spirit received from his Father Jehovah, he initiated Paul’s missionary journeys and took a personal interest in them. We read: “The holy spirit said: ‘Of all persons set Barnabas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have called them.’ . . . Accordingly these men, sent out by the holy spirit, went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed away” on the first missionary trip. (Acts 13:2-4) Of course, the holy spirit, Jehovah’s active force, could neither ‘say’ something nor ‘send out’ someone of itself. The one using the spirit to direct matters was obviously Christ, the Head of the congregation.
14 Similarly, an attentive reading of the Scriptures shows clearly that Christ was behind the important meeting of the governing body held to settle the question as to whether Gentile Christians should submit to circumcision and the Law of Moses or not. The book of Acts states that when the issue arose, “they [no doubt the responsible members, or elders, of the Antioch congregation] arranged for Paul and Barnabas and some others of them to go up to the apostles and older men in Jerusalem regarding this dispute.” (Acts 15:1, 2) But when Paul relates the circumstances that led to his going to Jerusalem to have the circumcision issue settled, he states: “I went up as a result of a revelation.” (Galatians 2:1-3; compare 1:12.) As the active Head of the congregation, Christ wanted this important doctrinal matter to be settled by the entire visible governing body. By means of the holy spirit, he guided the minds of these devoted men in making their decision.—Acts 15:28, 29.
*** km 1/79 p. 3 par. 5 Are We Allowing God’s Spirit to Operate Freely? ***
5 Today God has widened out the territory to include all the earth. “Macedonia” could be our town, our rurals, our block, our apartment house! Are there “Lydias” waiting there? Are we giving God’s spirit an opportunity to direct us to them by putting forth the effort? Or are we waiting for the spirit to move us? It actually works the other way around. When we move, the spirit will bless and lead us.Articles do mention that the Holy Spirit can affect individual JWs who follow all the organizational requirements:
*** km 1/79 p. 3 par. 5 Are We Allowing God’s Spirit to Operate Freely? ***
HOW GOD’S SPIRIT OPERATES FREELY
2 As a person can draw on electric power by putting a plug into an outlet and he can get water by turning on a faucet, so we open the way for God’s spirit to operate in our lives when we take some action. For example, we benefit from the operation of holy spirit (1) when we personally study God’s inspired Word (2 Tim. 3:16; Josh. 1:8), (2) when we attend meetings where that Word is discussed (Heb. 10:24, 25; 1 Cor. 14:24, 25), (3) when we give a witness to others about the good things contained in the Bible (Acts 1:8; John 14:26), (4) when our actions toward our Christian brothers and sisters demonstrate love, which is a fruit of God’s spirit (1 John 3:14, 16-18; Gal. 5:22), (5) when we respond appreciatively to the oversight of elders who have been appointed by holy spirit (Acts 20:28; Eph. 4:8, 11-16), and (6) when we turn to God in prayer and ask for his help (Luke 11:13). On the other hand, at Ephesians 4:30 we are told: “Do not be grieving God’s holy spirit.” So we need to avoid conduct that is out of harmony with God’s spirit, which is a holy, or clean, force.5 Today God has widened out the territory to include all the earth. “Macedonia” could be our town, our rurals, our block, our apartment house! Are there “Lydias” waiting there? Are we giving God’s spirit an opportunity to direct us to them by putting forth the effort? Or are we waiting for the spirit to move us? It actually works the other way around. When we move, the spirit will bless and lead us.
However, even these examples seem to indicate that they way the Holy Spirit guides us is through cooperation with the organization and by doing what the organization says.
At one time, Bible reading was upsetting because of my training that if the spirit is leading me, then I should be coming to the same conclusion as the organization. Personally when I read that Jesus is Mediator and ransom for all, and that all led by the spirit (instead of the world's spirit) are God's sons, I feel that this should apply to all Christians. Not just some elite group who claim that only their representatives receive deep things from the Holy Spirit. I do not see any clear indication in the apostles letters that there is one class of Christians directly saved by Jesus, and another class who is saved becasuse they are friends of the first class. I think that mindset though is what causes individual JWs, especially great crowd members, to feel distant form the Holy Spirit.
Peace indeed.
-
7
1932-1971 how was the congregation run?
by pirata inthe arrangement for body of elders and deacons / minsisterial servants existed pre-1932 (democratically elected) and post-1971 ("theocratically" appointed).. are there any here who remembers how things were run from 1932-1971?
i see mention of the "congregation overseer" and a committee of men to carry out his instructions, but not too clear on much beyond this.
did the congregatino overseer pretty much run the show and make all the decisions?
-
-
pirata
The arrangement for Body of Elders and deacons / minsisterial servants existed pre-1932 (democratically elected) and post-1971 ("theocratically" appointed).
Are there any here who remembers how things were run from 1932-1971? I see mention of the "Congregation Overseer" and a committee of men to carry out his instructions, but not too clear on much beyond this. Did the congregatino overseer pretty much run the show and make all the decisions? Did the position rotate?
-
16
My first semester at college was a sucess!!
by noni1974 ini got my grades today.
i ended up with a 3.57 gpa and i'm able to join phi beta kappa, which is the honnors society at my school.
not to bad for an ex jw that never graduated from high school.
-
-
pirata
That's awesome, congratulations!
What's your major?
-
-
-
pirata
* Deleted Bitter Comments *
-
-
-
pirata
Twice a week...
-
19
Fred Franz: Time in Which We Are Now Interested -- 1975 lecture
by cabasilas infrom internet archive:.
"time in which we are now interested," lecture given by frederick w. franz on february 5, 1975 at the los angeles sports arena in los angeles, california.
this was a special lecture given by fred franz (then vice president of the watchtower society and one of the main theologians of jehovah's witnesses at that time) on the 6,000 year chronology that pointed to the year 1975 as a special year marked in bible prophecy.
-
-
pirata
Thanks for the links, these are great!
Compare these with Fred Franz's lecture at a 1972 Gilead graduation, also from the Internet Archive:
Lecture can be listened to at:
http://www.archive.org/details/1972FredFranzLectureGileadGraduation
I think the file may be corrupsted. The mp3 file cuts off at 24:50, (I'm guessing about halfway through the talk, because when you first load the page and hit play it changes form 49:41 to 24:50.
It was just getting interesting explaining how the elder arrangement didn't exist from 1932 to 1972.
Just wondering if anyone has the complete talk and/or can upload the full version.