Posts by MrMonroe

38

What questions JW's can't answer?

by XPeterX in

can you mention any or a list of questions?wanna right them down and ask a few jw's....curious of what is going to happen....

MrMonroe

A few questions you could ask a JW who comes to call ...

1. If I decide to study with you and get baptised and become a JW, what will happen later if I change my mind and leave?

2. Can you be friends with a person of a different religion? If a close friend of yours, who is a JW, decided they didn't want to be a JW any more and wrote a letter to the elders and said so, would you still be their friend? Would you still talk to them? If not, would that be because you're scared of being expelled yourself?

3. I've heard that the Watchtower says Witnesses who write a letter of resignation from the religion are to be shunned. If the Bible says that Christians should shun people who are wicked, why do Jehovah's Witnesses shun people who simply want to leave their religion? If leaving a religion is so wicked that it warrants being shunned forever by your closest friends, why do JWs want everyone they call on to leave their religion?

4. How does your religion decide its doctrines? How does the Governing Body know what the anointed are thinking? If a person was one of the anointed (therefore of the FDS) and had a new thought about something, maybe decided that what they read in the magazines was incorrect, how does that get passed to the Governing Body, which actually makes the doctrines? Since the FDS is God's channel, does the fact that they had that thought meant that they got it from Jesus? What if 20 anointed had the same view? Or 200? Or 5000? At what point would the Governing Body decide they'd better change the doctrine?

5. If the Jehovah's Witnesses said you didn't have to go witnessing any more and turn in monthly reports, how much witnessing would you do? Would you be here today? If not, doesn't that mean you're only doing it out of fear of being looked down on by your elders?

48

Audio: Generation teaching as explained at the San Diego District Convention 05-30-2010

by kurtbethel in

this is an excerpt from the final talk of the day, "remain in the secret place of the most high".

i looked around as this explanation was being offered up, and the looks on the faces of people there was mostly disinterest.

this is a very convoluted explanation that reminds me of someone running a con and trying to cobble together an explanation to deal with legitimate objections to their false claims.. http://www.sendspace.com/file/dodp4w.

MrMonroe

"Convoluted" is one word for it. Some other words are baffling, nonsensical and dishonest. The definition of "generation" provided in the Feb 15, 2008 WT does at least bear some similarity with what the dictionary says. The dictionary says a generation is "all the people born at a particular time"; that WT says it's people who share "a common experience during the same time period". Well ohhh-kay ...it's a bit of a stretch, but we're with you so far, I guess.

The April 15, 2010 WT then stretches this further by saying the generation "usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period". Sorry, but at that point they're contradicting what the dictionary says. My father's lifespan overlapped mine, but his generation was sure as hell not the same as mine. F.W. Franz, referenced in the convention talk, was born in 1893. That was 117 years ago. I think it's safe to say his generation has ended.

The strange thing is the way the speaker, around 3min 40, declares that the "generation" Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 "comprises two groups of anointed Christians". He repeats the phrase for emphasis. The two groups are (a) those who were alive in 1914 and (b) a later group of anointed who for a time were contemporaries of the older group, in the same way, I guess, that my father and I were alive at the same time. This, of course, is a complete invention and achieves this by taking a further step away from the already dishonest use of the word. Where in Matthew 24 is there any suggestion of two groups? Jesus speaks of "the generation", not "two groups of anointed". And yet the speaker says some in the "second group" would be alive to see the Great Tribulation and claims the Bible says this.

Here he supports his claim with an illustration of Fred Franz. He suggests that because Franz's generation overlapped the lives of other anointed, they are all in the same generation. Does this make sense to you? Franz died in 1992. If my daughter was born in 1991, and therefore 19 today, would she be the same generation as Fred Franz? This is just wrong. It's a fiction, an invention, just dishonest.

Two final points: Curiously, the 2008 WT says that Jesus' words did not suggest a formula to enable them to determine when the last days would end. But that's precisely what the Watch Tower Society has always tried to determine.

And why does the audience applaud when the speaker announces the release of a new video? Why did they not stand up as one and say, "Hang on! None of that made any sense! Can we sort out that last piece of crap before you start handing out presents?" How many of them would have walked out of the convention that afternoon thinking, "Yep, got it. That made complete sense. I can explain that no worries." They would instead have been practising their beaming smile and ready to spout those immortal words, "That was so uplifting! So encouraging!"

31

Will The Governing Body Enforce the New Generation Understanding and Muzzle Open Criticism Among the Rank and File?

by frankiespeakin in

to keep every jw on the same page about the new light on extending the generation to mammoth's lengths of time the gb will no doubt be squashing any open criticism,, even the old cronies at bethel will looking differently at the gb when that starts happening.

even the most hardcore believer will be looking at the governing body in a "new light".

MrMonroe

They clearly speak of two groups overlapping, not numerous overlaps and this is why they are both saving (in their minds) 1914 while still being able to say as they are that this new light still allows for armageddon being immenent. If you think I am blathering reread the letter, no. 48

What is "the letter, no 48"?

12

Claim that Ray Franz has died

by MrMonroe in

it may be a hoax and i hope it is just that, but someone in birmingham, alabama has posted on ray's wikipedia article that he died today while walking.

the anon user is insisting it is true and that he/she is ray's friend.

anyone heard anything?.

MrMonroe

See discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:74.237.173.235

12

Claim that Ray Franz has died

by MrMonroe in

it may be a hoax and i hope it is just that, but someone in birmingham, alabama has posted on ray's wikipedia article that he died today while walking.

the anon user is insisting it is true and that he/she is ray's friend.

anyone heard anything?.

MrMonroe

It may be a hoax and I hope it is just that, but someone in Birmingham, Alabama has posted on Ray's Wikipedia article that he died today while walking. The anon user is insisting it is true and that he/she is Ray's friend. Anyone heard anything?

5

Trust No One say Watchtower

by RR in

*** g96 2/8 p. 6 to trust or not to trust ***.

the bible gives some good advice on this matter.

anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, says proverbs 14:15. this is not destructive cynicism.

MrMonroe

Absolutely priceless. I was doing my best to be a good JW when that article came out in '96 and I guess I must have swallowed it hook line and sinker. If I actually read it ... I dutifully thrust the magazine into other people's hands suggesting they read it, but rarely bothered myself. Reading it now makes me just laugh. All those years I thought I had what was "gold" really did turn out to be utterly worthless.

31

Got a JW Tract on the Toilet Paper Holder at Wal-Mart- JW's Have No Shame

by flipper in

jw
friends

unbelievable.

we don't even get peace in the inner sanctuary of a restroom anymore.

is it me - or are we seeing these crazed magazines just anywhere and everywhere these days ??

MrMonroe

I've seen them on the train on the way to work, placed on seats. Some people seem to want to stand rather than flick it on the floor and take the seat. When I see them in the trains it makes want to cringe. Embarrassingly, I used to pride myself on leaving them in the laundromat when I was "new in the troof". Unfortunately I got into a conversation with a woman doing her laundry who started quizzing me about how much I'd "changed" since becoming a Witness. She asked me if I masturbated. I was a young, single guy .. what do you think the answer was? But I was so ridden with guilt I wanted to grab my washing bag and run!

14

I need your help please...Where is it where the Society is referencing...

by Lady Liberty in

does anyone know where is it where the society is referencing how if you were to find your religon wasn't being truthful would you trust them with other beliefs?

of course they were reffering to other religions..i cannot recall where that is..anyone remember??.

thank you in advanced,.

MrMonroe

The June 1, 1988 WT article does contain some real gems ...

"In many places, people fear some form of divine reprisal if they change their religion." That certainly sums up a reason why many Witnesses, disgusted with the tight control over their lives by the GB and congregation elders, still remain in the organization: the dreaded fear pumped into them by The Watchtower of dying at Armageddon ... a fate carefully conocted by Judge Rutherford through selective use of OT and NT texts. Is it any different from the old Catholic fear of burning hellfire?

"Another fear that holds people back from changing their religion is the fear of displeasing a mate or parents." In that incestuous world of the Witnesses, how many would gladly turn their back on the whole stinking mess were it not for the entanglements of family and the threat of shunning?

"Another reason why many are afraid to change their religion: the universal dislike of being viewed as different."It certainly takes courage to walk out the Kingdom Hall door and never go back. The easy thing to do is stay. Meetings, conventions and witnessing become an addiction, a dependence and deciding you want to break free and reclaim your life will certainly make you stand out among your former "friends" in the congregation. You can guarantee they'll be dining out for years on the story of how you just left without offering an explanation.

"“That is the way those people smile at a stranger, when they spot him at any of their meetings.” That much they do. It would sicken me to see the vindictive, judgmental tyrants at the Kingdom Hall turning on the big Kingdom Smile when newcomers arrived. Hypocrites!

"People with personalities formerly as different as sheep are from wolves are now getting along peaceably in the Christian assembly. Some were moody and unfriendly, short-tempered and even fearful. Others had trouble with depression. Still others were introverted and self-centered. Many had bad habits to overcome." Really? Those words seem a pretty accurate description of the people I used to sit in the Kingdom Hall with every Sunday for 20-something years. Life as a Witness only made them worse.

15

Does the Bible actually and specifically teach an eternal Earth paradise?

by JWoods in

disclaimer - i have left behind all the jw and other religious speculation on this and am now a non-religious scientific thinker on the subject.. so, for me - earth is the planet we live on.

both earth and all of us have a finite lifetime - and it is up to us now what we do with both.. but, as a question for exjws like myself: much is made in the jw theology of an eternal "paradise" earth.

putting aside how much scientific nonsense that may be:.

MrMonroe

The Witnesses' Millenarian beliefs have nothing to do with Rutherford. The hope of a 1000-year-long rule by Christ was at the core of Russell's first books, which were based on the Millerite teachings, which were in turn rooted in much older beliefs.

15

Does the Bible actually and specifically teach an eternal Earth paradise?

by JWoods in

disclaimer - i have left behind all the jw and other religious speculation on this and am now a non-religious scientific thinker on the subject.. so, for me - earth is the planet we live on.

both earth and all of us have a finite lifetime - and it is up to us now what we do with both.. but, as a question for exjws like myself: much is made in the jw theology of an eternal "paradise" earth.

putting aside how much scientific nonsense that may be:.

MrMonroe

Sorry, delete "Rutherford" above and replace with "Franz."