The concept and storyline is good and accurate, though I was puzzled at the beards and open shirts and a convention at which everyone sat on the grass. Artistic licence perhaps.
MrMonroe
JoinedPosts by MrMonroe
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22
WORLDS APART~TEEN JW MOVIETONIGHT ON SUNDANCE @ 7 EST.
by AK MCGRATH ini was just flipping through the channels to find something for the woman i care for to watch, and i came across a movie tonight on the sundance channel called, "worlds apart".
it is about a jehovah's witness teen who falls in love with someone who is not.. although i can't watch it now, i am taping it.
i couldn't look to see if it is a documentary of sorts, but i bet it will be interesting to say the least.. it's on at 7 pm tonight, eastern.
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Vin Toole at work: How much of JWs donations are spent on legal challenges?
by MrMonroe inthis talk of vin toole's involvement in the steven unthank case in victoria reminded me of a legal case back in 1999 that went all the way to the high court of australia.. in february 1998 a 20-year-old sister named sherin qumsieh gave birth in a melbourne hospital.
complications developed, she required an emergency hysterectomy and began suffering severe blood loss.
she had signed a blood card, but the hospital warned her husband, nidal, that there was a high likelihood she'd die if she didn't have a transfusion.
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MrMonroe
This talk of Vin Toole's involvement in the Steven Unthank case in Victoria reminded me of a legal case back in 1999 that went all the way to the High Court of Australia.
In February 1998 a 20-year-old sister named Sherin Qumsieh gave birth in a Melbourne hospital. Complications developed, she required an emergency hysterectomy and began suffering severe blood loss. She had signed a blood card, but the hospital warned her husband, Nidal, that there was a high likelihood she'd die if she didn't have a transfusion. He approached a Melbourne firm of ambulance chasers, Slater and Gordon, and asked them what he could do. They went to the Victorian Guardianship Board and applied to make Nidal, the husband, her guardian since she was now unconscious.
The Guardianship Board, in an emergency sitting, accepted the application and Nidal, as her guardian, requested the hospital give her a transfusion. She was given blood, recovered and was discharged from hospital a week later. The story made front-page headlines in the Melbourne papers and was all over radio and TV because it was a perfect dilemma: a woman who had asked NOT to be given blood had been overruled by her husband and a court in a decision that had apparently saved her life. What would she say when she woke up?
The couple retreated into silence and I have no idea what the fallout was. Would the husband have gotten into trouble with his congregation? Had he brought the org into disrepute? (Are they still Witnesses?)
Within a short time the Qumsiehs had lodged a case with the Supreme Court of Victoria to have it rule that the Guardianship Board's decision had been illegal. It wouldn't have done the family any good, but it would make it clearer for JWs in future similar cases. Maybe it would get Nidal off the hook in a judicial committee hearing. The Supreme Court rejected the application, deciding that the Guardianship Board had to make a decision based on the information it had on the night and had done the best it could.
In September 1998 the Qumsiehs appealed that Supreme Court decision in the Court of Appeal of Victoria. In a 3-0 decision the Court of Appeal dismissed the application. In October 1999 they appealed that decision to the High Court and lost again and this time were ordered to pay costs to the hospital.
At the Supreme Court the couple were represented by Vin Toole and a JW lawyer called WP Cathcart, who shows up on Google searches defending Witnesses all over the world. At the High Court they were represented by a female Queens Counsel called Crennan, possibly Susan Crennan. So a few questions are in order:
- How much would all those cases cost to run?
- How much were the Qumsiehs required to pay in legal costs to the hospital for their High Court case?
- Could a young electrician afford to run those cases on his own?
- If not, how much of their costs were covered by the donations generously supplied by JWs?
- Are WP Cathcart's fees paid for by the Witnesses or is he just a drone who gets credits for his monthly field service report by defending the truth in court?
- How many cases do the JWs take to the Supreme Court and High Court?
The documents for the Qumsieh case are at the Austlii website: search for the name Qumsieh and just for fun, search for Toole's name and you can see a few other cases good ol' Vin has run on behalf of the Witnesses.
I swear that dude is leadership material. All he needs to do is start nibbling the wafers and he'll be on the reserves list when the next GB member falls off the perch.
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Transcript of Annual Meeting Notes and events from unknown source
by itsibitsybrainbutbigenoughtosmellarat inthey were married for some 51 years.
you cannot stand up against them in battle.
you cannot stand up against him in battle.
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MrMonroe
Sounds like a "best of" collection of the final talks from a District Convention. Why didn't they talk about the real issues affecting the society:
- Increasingly high levels of membership churn;
- The progressive revelation of their bullshit and deception via the internet and how it threatens their viability;
- The rise in disrespect by the satanic worldly media that throws their own propaganda back in their faces;
- Their growing financial crisis;
- Their plans for stepping up the vitriol and rhetoric against those who leave; and
- The infuriating delay of the United Nations to turn on religion so Jehovah can then do as he's told by the Governing Body.
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What exactly are men at the back of the hall taking care of?
by howdidtihappen inonce people have come in, and the doorman and the mic men are in place, why are there a few other suits scattered about at the back?
i saw a guy get up, sit down, get up, sit down, get up and when i looked what he was up to he was reading the noticeboard and looking around, waiting for a bus.
i figured he wasn't doing much at that point, but anything to not stay seated.
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MrMonroe
I used to go up the back and read the noticeboard, even go out the back to the library and flick through the old volumes. Anything to alleviate the boredom. It was while scanning the schedule of WT readers during a meeting that I realised I had been dropped from the list as a punishment for something I'd done. I went and asked an elder what was going on and he said, "Oh, Brother X was supposed to discuss that with you. Did he not?"
I wonder now what would have happened if the whole congregation, one by one, had gotten up and wandered around the back of the hall with their hands in their pockets, whispering to each other and passing notes.
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The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth
by 00DAD inprobably this topic has been dealt with before, but i'm relatively new here, so perhaps y'all will be willing to indulge me in my pursuit for clarity.
regarding the anointed, the gb recently said this: .
"we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.
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MrMonroe
The teaching during "the time of Christ's inspection" was also that Russell was the faithful and discreet slave.
The WTS now teaches that the FDS has always existed, passing on the baton of uncorrupted truth down through the years. Ray Franz raised a major problem with this teaching.
The doctrines of the WTS were built on the independent study of CT Russell. He consulted with no members of a faithful slave class. Therefore the "unbroken line" ends right there. When Rutherford sacked the majority fo the board of directors in 1917 to force through a Watchtower article he had written, which members of the faithful slave did he consult with?
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Phil Donahue at kingdom hall
by loosie inomg, one of my friends who hasn't removed me from her list eventhough i shoot down all the jw propaganda she sends me, sent me an email about phil donahue visiting a kingdom hall, with pics and all.. they claim he said that jw have done more for human rights during ww2 then any other group in america.. is this true?
has anyone else heard about this?.
i want to send phil the letter where the jw's wrote to hilter to tell them they don't like the jews either.. .
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MrMonroe
I think it was Jim Penton who made the observation that the WTS has fought so hard in courts for legal freedoms of the religion, yet cares so little about the individual freedom of its members.
Rank and file members are forced to adhere to the official beliefs and practices, denied the right to act on conscience on things such as some medical treatments or choice of job, or even minor, piddling things like celebrating birthdays and buying lottery tickets. They are threatened with expulsion, naming and shunning if they deviate from the official line or challenge teachings.
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Good to study JW past .... New "Writing Archives" under direction of the Writing Committee
by wannabefree inyes friends, it is important to understand your rich spiritual heritage as jehovah's witnesses, and so you don't have to look at old publications on your own or refer to worldly sources, the organization is pleased to select for you the history as we want you to have it and you can get it in your current watchtower.. from january 15, 2012 watchtower pg 31-32. the governing body is keenly interested in.
our theocratic history.
in commenting on the.
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MrMonroe
Did someone say "pyramid"?
The Watchtower Heritage Series could include a quote from The Way To Paradise (1924):
"In it (the Great Pyramid) have been discovered some of the deepest secrets of geometrical, geographical, astronomical, and mathematical science. The pyramid also outlines in its own peculiar way the same plan of God that we find in the Bible, and it dated beforehand some of the most notable events that have occurred in the history of mankind. It gives the date of the exodus of the Children of Israel from Egypt, and the date of birth and death of Jesus. It gives the date of the French revolution as 1789, and the great World War as 1914, besides many more. It was built over five hundred years before Moses wrote any part of the Bible. It is so far in advance of the wisdom of that day that no man could have been the architect. Its harmony with the Bible teachings prove that God designed it."
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Good to study JW past .... New "Writing Archives" under direction of the Writing Committee
by wannabefree inyes friends, it is important to understand your rich spiritual heritage as jehovah's witnesses, and so you don't have to look at old publications on your own or refer to worldly sources, the organization is pleased to select for you the history as we want you to have it and you can get it in your current watchtower.. from january 15, 2012 watchtower pg 31-32. the governing body is keenly interested in.
our theocratic history.
in commenting on the.
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MrMonroe
Another few suggestions for aspects of their heritage they could highlight:
Watchtower, September 15, 1895: "Beware of "organization." It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours."
Watchtower, March 1, 1919: ""According to this Scripture the very most that the church could do would be that, after having vainly endeavored to get the brother to repent and reform, it should withdraw special brotherly fellowship from him until such time as he would express willingness thereafter to do right. Then he should be received again into full fellowship. In the meantime the brother may merely be treated in the kindly, courteous way in which it would be proper for us to treat any publican or Gentile, withholding the special rights or privileges or greetings or voting opportunities that belong to the church as a class separate from the world."
Watchtower, February 1, 1919: "The great adversary is wily, and at all times is quick to appeal to passion. He persuades some that they must take a radical stand against some secular work or activity, and to proceed at once to disfellowship others who cannot conscientiously take this same stand. Somehow they seem to think that their radical stand entitles them in a very special sense to divine favour and blessing. his attitude leads them to violate principle in various ways: (1) By judging and condemning others who do not see as they do; (2) By refusing to fellowship those who still believe in the ransom, the restitution, the high calling."
Watchtower, October 1, 1930: "(Christendom's) members are in bondage to creeds, customs, rites and ceremonies; they dare not disown these or criticize or expose them. To do so would bring down on their heads taunts, reproaches, disfellowship and persecution. Many thousands of the Lords people are held in these denominations as prisoners, afraid to express their disapproval of the creeds, methods and customs of the organization."
Awake, January 8, 1947: "The authority for excommunication, they claim, is based on the teachings of Christ and his apostles ... but the hierarchy's excommunication, as a punishment and medicinal remedy, finds no support in .... scriptures. In fact it is altogether foreign to Bible teachings. ... The weapon of excommunication became the instrument by which the clergy attained a combination of ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny that finds no parallel in history."
(Credit to jwfacts.com for these quotes)
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The seven trumpet blasts of Revelation & the “Millions” campaign.
by transhuman68 inone of the jehovahs witness doctrines that many of us have had trouble believing is that the seven angels trumpet blasts described in revelation applied to events that occurred in the 1920s at seven assemblies held around the world at the time when judge rutherford was the president of the watchtower society.. the revelation climax book (1988) contains this summary on page 173:.
highlights of jehovah's trumpetlike judgment proclamations.
1922 cedar point, ohio: a challenge to christendom's leaders in religion, politics, and big business to justify their failure to bring peace, prosperity, and happiness.
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MrMonroe
Excellent points, transhuman. To outsiders, it is very clearly the attaching of very mundane events to biblical prophecies with the specific intent of weaving their own religious history into the Bible. The more they intermingle the two, the more convincing it is that they are God's "organisation".
At the point I left the cult in 2008, we were studying the Revelation book in the last few months of the weekly book study arrangement. And though I'd always been enthusiastic and diligent in making comments at book studies to keep the damn thing moving, I found myself increasingly unable to answer questions from that book because I just didn't accept that it was correct. I'd read the questions, look at the answers and think, "Well, they say that, but I don't see that it's true."
What you say is completely spot-on, and as devastating to their mythology as the claim that Jesus inspected world religions and chose the WTS as his "organisation" despite the fact that they were teaching that (a) Jesus had returned invisibly in 1874, (b) Jesus should be worshipped and (c) Russell was the faithful slave.
But JWs would still claim this is "new light" ... further revelations over time. As time marched on, it became "evident" that that's what the trumpet blasts were.
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Victoria, Australia: October 11th hearing. All five cases made it through the court...just!
by AndersonsInfo inthis is a preliminary summary only.
i hope to obtain more details later.. .
all five cases are still within the criminal justice system.
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MrMonroe
AussieOz, the magistrate won't make any investigations. He makes his judgment based on what evidence is presented to court. Steven has done an immense amount of work, but it still bothers me that the DPP has taken so long to come on board. If the do take it over, they could yet decide there's not enough evidence to secure a conviction (and so abandon it) or may be content that the JWs are, on paper at least, now apparently telling elders they need to get the WWC checks. I'd love to see this thing result in convictions and denunciations from a Supreme Court judge, but I still worry that it's all going to peter out through lack of government interest.