MrMonroe

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Posts by MrMonroe

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  89

  Victoria, Australia: October 11th hearing. All five cases made it through the court...just!

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is a preliminary summary only.

  i hope to obtain more details later.. .

  all five cases are still within the criminal justice system.

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  MrMonroe

  The material above is not a transcript. It is the observations of someone in the court for the purposes of Unthank's website.
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  23

  Here's a good one the Jehovah's witnesses are worse than Nazi's

  by Star tiger in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm not sure if this is a controversial subject or not, i suspect it is, the 1936-1945 nazi regime were the most evil b*****d's in the world and thankfully were destroyed, however the jehovah's witnesses having sufffered under their rule, then became even more evil not by destroying the person's physical life, but destroying their way to god, if a person leaves then they become dead to god, and this from a second rate publishing company!

  please don't think i'm being flippant about all the suffering and death the nazi's caused, but as we are most of us spiritual people, surely the witnesses caused a catastrophy in the post 1945 era.. best regards,.

  star tiger .

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  MrMonroe

  The Watch Tower leadership certainly acts in a manner that resembles totalitarian states, in which information is controlled and members are stirred into activity to pursue a common goal achieved through unity of thinking. They clearly identify their enemies and encourage members to hate them. They also require unquestioning obedience.

  It's an ideology, a belief generated by the cultish conviction that they alone are God's "organisation" and are acting on God's instructions.

  Hitler had a worldview as well, but it was driven by a maniacal belief that Jews were the cause of the world's evils. He saw them as inhuman beasts and had no conscience about exterminating them en masse. There's the difference.

  I'm reading a chilling book at the moment, Saul Friedlander's Nazi Germany and the Jews, which includes accounts of the cold and dispasionate mass murder of tens of thousands of Jews at a time in 1941: men and women alike were ordered to strip naked, lie face-down in a pit or on top of dead or dying Jews before they were shot with a single bullet to the head from a distance of two metres. The soldiers worked in long shifts to carry out their work.

  As much as I hate the WTS, I would never suggest that they would do the same. There's a limit to Star Tiger's analogy, but there are certainly some common elements.
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  89

  Victoria, Australia: October 11th hearing. All five cases made it through the court...just!

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is a preliminary summary only.

  i hope to obtain more details later.. .

  all five cases are still within the criminal justice system.

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  MrMonroe

  I doubt there would be a transcript. It wasn't a trial, it was a mentions hearing, which is purely administrative process, setting dates for the next hearing and working out where it fits in the legal system.

  It's quite possible someone from the WTS side made a reference to the FDS being a theological arrangement -- they are happy to use the words "theolological" and "denomination" when they're forced to in a legal setting but avoid using them in their literature because it demeans their sense of divine appointment.

  However I don't for a moment think that they would have referred to it as an imaginary friend. The rest of the quote referring to "a well placed mind placement" etc is clearly the thinking of someone who is an opponent of the WTS, possibly lifted from a web forum.
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  9

  Vin Toole at work: How much of JWs donations are spent on legal challenges?

  by MrMonroe in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this talk of vin toole's involvement in the steven unthank case in victoria reminded me of a legal case back in 1999 that went all the way to the high court of australia.. in february 1998 a 20-year-old sister named sherin qumsieh gave birth in a melbourne hospital.

  complications developed, she required an emergency hysterectomy and began suffering severe blood loss.

  she had signed a blood card, but the hospital warned her husband, nidal, that there was a high likelihood she'd die if she didn't have a transfusion.

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  MrMonroe

  wha happened: At the Supreme Court challenge he (or the WTS) presented expert medical advice that his wife's condition wasn't as bad as he'd been told and also that evidence had been withheld from the Guardianship Board that showed that his wife had signed the No Blood card. Notwithstanding the fact that it as he who had approached the lawyers in the first place, he put it to the court that he had been intimidated and pressured by the hosoital into doing what he did.

  As opposed to other patients who are pressured by the WTS Hospital Liaison Committees to refuse blood.

  The Supreme Couirt, as I mentioned, decided the Guardianship Board hadn't erred, but had simply made the best decision based on the evidence it had before it in what it believed was a llife-threatening situation.

  I remain intrigued by what they think now: Do they still regret taking that action to save her life? Are they still Witnesses?
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  22

  WORLDS APART~TEEN JW MOVIETONIGHT ON SUNDANCE @ 7 EST.

  by AK MCGRATH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just flipping through the channels to find something for the woman i care for to watch, and i came across a movie tonight on the sundance channel called, "worlds apart".

  it is about a jehovah's witness teen who falls in love with someone who is not.. although i can't watch it now, i am taping it.

  i couldn't look to see if it is a documentary of sorts, but i bet it will be interesting to say the least.. it's on at 7 pm tonight, eastern.

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  MrMonroe

  The concept and storyline is good and accurate, though I was puzzled at the beards and open shirts and a convention at which everyone sat on the grass. Artistic licence perhaps.
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  9

  Vin Toole at work: How much of JWs donations are spent on legal challenges?

  by MrMonroe in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this talk of vin toole's involvement in the steven unthank case in victoria reminded me of a legal case back in 1999 that went all the way to the high court of australia.. in february 1998 a 20-year-old sister named sherin qumsieh gave birth in a melbourne hospital.

  complications developed, she required an emergency hysterectomy and began suffering severe blood loss.

  she had signed a blood card, but the hospital warned her husband, nidal, that there was a high likelihood she'd die if she didn't have a transfusion.

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  MrMonroe

  This talk of Vin Toole's involvement in the Steven Unthank case in Victoria reminded me of a legal case back in 1999 that went all the way to the High Court of Australia.

  In February 1998 a 20-year-old sister named Sherin Qumsieh gave birth in a Melbourne hospital. Complications developed, she required an emergency hysterectomy and began suffering severe blood loss. She had signed a blood card, but the hospital warned her husband, Nidal, that there was a high likelihood she'd die if she didn't have a transfusion. He approached a Melbourne firm of ambulance chasers, Slater and Gordon, and asked them what he could do. They went to the Victorian Guardianship Board and applied to make Nidal, the husband, her guardian since she was now unconscious.

  The Guardianship Board, in an emergency sitting, accepted the application and Nidal, as her guardian, requested the hospital give her a transfusion. She was given blood, recovered and was discharged from hospital a week later. The story made front-page headlines in the Melbourne papers and was all over radio and TV because it was a perfect dilemma: a woman who had asked NOT to be given blood had been overruled by her husband and a court in a decision that had apparently saved her life. What would she say when she woke up?

  The couple retreated into silence and I have no idea what the fallout was. Would the husband have gotten into trouble with his congregation? Had he brought the org into disrepute? (Are they still Witnesses?)

  Within a short time the Qumsiehs had lodged a case with the Supreme Court of Victoria to have it rule that the Guardianship Board's decision had been illegal. It wouldn't have done the family any good, but it would make it clearer for JWs in future similar cases. Maybe it would get Nidal off the hook in a judicial committee hearing. The Supreme Court rejected the application, deciding that the Guardianship Board had to make a decision based on the information it had on the night and had done the best it could.

  In September 1998 the Qumsiehs appealed that Supreme Court decision in the Court of Appeal of Victoria. In a 3-0 decision the Court of Appeal dismissed the application. In October 1999 they appealed that decision to the High Court and lost again and this time were ordered to pay costs to the hospital.

  At the Supreme Court the couple were represented by Vin Toole and a JW lawyer called WP Cathcart, who shows up on Google searches defending Witnesses all over the world. At the High Court they were represented by a female Queens Counsel called Crennan, possibly Susan Crennan. So a few questions are in order:

  • How much would all those cases cost to run?
  • How much were the Qumsiehs required to pay in legal costs to the hospital for their High Court case?
  • Could a young electrician afford to run those cases on his own?
  • If not, how much of their costs were covered by the donations generously supplied by JWs?
  • Are WP Cathcart's fees paid for by the Witnesses or is he just a drone who gets credits for his monthly field service report by defending the truth in court?
  • How many cases do the JWs take to the Supreme Court and High Court?

  The documents for the Qumsieh case are at the Austlii website: search for the name Qumsieh and just for fun, search for Toole's name and you can see a few other cases good ol' Vin has run on behalf of the Witnesses.

  I swear that dude is leadership material. All he needs to do is start nibbling the wafers and he'll be on the reserves list when the next GB member falls off the perch.
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  26

  Transcript of Annual Meeting Notes and events from unknown source

  by itsibitsybrainbutbigenoughtosmellarat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  they were married for some 51 years.

  you cannot stand up against them in battle.

  you cannot stand up against him in battle.

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  MrMonroe

  Sounds like a "best of" collection of the final talks from a District Convention. Why didn't they talk about the real issues affecting the society:

  • Increasingly high levels of membership churn;
  • The progressive revelation of their bullshit and deception via the internet and how it threatens their viability;
  • The rise in disrespect by the satanic worldly media that throws their own propaganda back in their faces;
  • Their growing financial crisis;
  • Their plans for stepping up the vitriol and rhetoric against those who leave; and
  • The infuriating delay of the United Nations to turn on religion so Jehovah can then do as he's told by the Governing Body.
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  59

  What exactly are men at the back of the hall taking care of?

  by howdidtihappen in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  once people have come in, and the doorman and the mic men are in place, why are there a few other suits scattered about at the back?

  i saw a guy get up, sit down, get up, sit down, get up and when i looked what he was up to he was reading the noticeboard and looking around, waiting for a bus.

  i figured he wasn't doing much at that point, but anything to not stay seated.

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  MrMonroe

  I used to go up the back and read the noticeboard, even go out the back to the library and flick through the old volumes. Anything to alleviate the boredom. It was while scanning the schedule of WT readers during a meeting that I realised I had been dropped from the list as a punishment for something I'd done. I went and asked an elder what was going on and he said, "Oh, Brother X was supposed to discuss that with you. Did he not?"

  I wonder now what would have happened if the whole congregation, one by one, had gotten up and wandered around the back of the hall with their hands in their pockets, whispering to each other and passing notes.
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  92

  The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth

  by 00DAD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  probably this topic has been dealt with before, but i'm relatively new here, so perhaps y'all will be willing to indulge me in my pursuit for clarity.

  regarding the anointed, the gb recently said this: .

  "we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.

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  MrMonroe

  The teaching during "the time of Christ's inspection" was also that Russell was the faithful and discreet slave.

  The WTS now teaches that the FDS has always existed, passing on the baton of uncorrupted truth down through the years. Ray Franz raised a major problem with this teaching.

  The doctrines of the WTS were built on the independent study of CT Russell. He consulted with no members of a faithful slave class. Therefore the "unbroken line" ends right there. When Rutherford sacked the majority fo the board of directors in 1917 to force through a Watchtower article he had written, which members of the faithful slave did he consult with?
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  25

  Phil Donahue at kingdom hall

  by loosie in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  omg, one of my friends who hasn't removed me from her list eventhough i shoot down all the jw propaganda she sends me, sent me an email about phil donahue visiting a kingdom hall, with pics and all.. they claim he said that jw have done more for human rights during ww2 then any other group in america.. is this true?

  has anyone else heard about this?.

  i want to send phil the letter where the jw's wrote to hilter to tell them they don't like the jews either.. .

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  MrMonroe

  I think it was Jim Penton who made the observation that the WTS has fought so hard in courts for legal freedoms of the religion, yet cares so little about the individual freedom of its members.

  Rank and file members are forced to adhere to the official beliefs and practices, denied the right to act on conscience on things such as some medical treatments or choice of job, or even minor, piddling things like celebrating birthdays and buying lottery tickets. They are threatened with expulsion, naming and shunning if they deviate from the official line or challenge teachings.