This Is NOT a question regarding Bill Bowen/Ray Franz et. al. That has been discussed elsewhere. But, there are so many skeptics, so many people who talk about the corruption in the jw's, expecting us to believe how THEY were hurt, but not wanting to accept that child molesting was covered up? Some even pointing fingers @ other religions, i.e the catholics. The catholics have nothing to do w/ this, neither do stats about how many molesters on the outside vs. inside. Those arguments are both red herrings. Even If it was'nt a precedent, which I believe it is, even in the "sick" cong.(a redundant phrase if you ask me)where it did happen to "keep jah's name pure", I don't know why people don't acknowledge that. Some of the posts really strike me as having the old jw & otherwise attitude of, We don't want to think about that, it's too ugly, so we'll pretend it does'nt exist. Which has allowed this to perpetuate. Answers, please?
avishai
JoinedPosts by avishai
-
41
Why do so many people here disbelieve allegations?
by avishai inthis is not a question regarding bill bowen/ray franz et.
al.
that has been discussed elsewhere.
-
-
-
181
Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz
by silentlambs ini wish them peace.
at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.
for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.
-
-
avishai
IW, I appreciate your clarification of your stand. But why do you say BB is an apostate? And how do you know that people at the top are trying to put changes into effect? How does silent lambs hinder this? I'm not being faceitious , this time anyway, I'm truly curious, I wanna know!
-
30
Child Molestation (Poll)
by refiners fire indoes anyone know of incidents of child molestation outside of the witness org?
how many incidents do you know of?
details are not required (in fact not desirable), .
-
-
avishai
Yup, I know of incidents outside the org., But the point is'nt whether there is more child molesters in jw than any other society. See, the guy you spoke of doing time for buggery? That is unlikely to happen in the jw, They don't get arrested & taken out of the society, they just get a slap on the wrist & counseling from bros who believe they can "cure" them w/ jahs help. But, they can't. No on can, yet. That's why in ancient israel they had capital punishment, there are some crimes in a society not even "GOD" can cure. And that is why it is more prevalent, not because of more CM's in JW, but because they are allowed to continue molesting, over & over!
-
59
Bill Bowen: a 'burial' ONLY for those who can read
by Focus inthe fleabites received for my speaking the absolute truth, almost entirely free from speculation, in:.
the thread found by clicking here would be hilarious if the matter at hand was not so serious.
i guess the biters generally display the poor reading and reasoning powers, and the huge desire to hero-worship ("my jehovah can beat up your jesus") that got so many embroiled in the cult of lies in the first place.... .
-
-
avishai
Excellent post, dragon. Whether I support Bill or not, Rays opinion means jack one way or the other as far as I'm concerned. Going after them for the cover ups has been something I've been working on for awhile, before the silentlambs thing was ever a gleam in BBs eye. What really gets my goat is those that say it did'nt happen, it was'nt covered up, & those who say that it did have an "agenda" to bring down the wts. I could'nt care less if they(the wts) believed that Ernie, Bert, & Snufalupagus were the holy trinity, I just want them to acknowledge that it did happen, the FEDERAL law, not state that only some states have, requiring mandatory reporting of childa abuse has been around since 1974. Thats almost 30 yrs. My friend told me" Hey, they annunced from the platform tonight to go straight to the police! I said, Nice, about 28 years to late(this was just a couple of mo. ago, about a week before dateline.
-
116
Can any believer answer this?
by LucidSky init was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
-
-
avishai
Also, Iif we were supposed to be "perfect" & the fall was'nt supposed to happen, we would never get sick & die, why do we have immune systems? White blood cells, etc.
-
59
Bill Bowen: a 'burial' ONLY for those who can read
by Focus inthe fleabites received for my speaking the absolute truth, almost entirely free from speculation, in:.
the thread found by clicking here would be hilarious if the matter at hand was not so serious.
i guess the biters generally display the poor reading and reasoning powers, and the huge desire to hero-worship ("my jehovah can beat up your jesus") that got so many embroiled in the cult of lies in the first place.... .
-
-
avishai
Focus, Right on! And Simon, when thier hired shrink says, on their website, the JW's that is, that in school "They did'nt tell us child molesting was that bad 20 years ago, we did'nt know it had long term effects" IT really sounds like what your saying right now. See, about 17 yrs. ago, I DID know it was going on, maybe focus did too. But I could'nt do much, I was 15 yrs. old. I even walked up to the elders & asked why he, the molester was'nt incarcerated. They basically told me to mind my own business. So, I had to see my 5 yr. old little brother( who to add insult to injury had his father die slowly of cancer in front of him 2 yrs before.) wake up screaming in the middle of the night, fighting whoever came to help him w/ his tiny little hands. He wouldnt take a bath without his clothes on. I watched one of the happiest children I have ever seen become withdrawn & angry. He is still withdrawn &angry, 17 yrs. later. His molester went on to molest several more kids in the cong. and elsewhere. So, SImon, & Island woman, & whoever else, don't you DARE tell me that this was'nt known about 5 yrs. ago. Walk in my shoes, then talk to me. Jw apologists make me sick.
-
17
Ways to get you back
by shera in.
have some jw's who you were close to,try to get you back to the meetings?what did they do?.
one woman i knew..tried to make me feel guilty with letters...saying it was like i stabbed her in the gut.she also gave me, my pictures back,of myself and my daughter.yeh thats a winner.just last year she gave someone i know..pictures i drew back to me, as well ,other pics of my daughter that were hanging around her house.. yeh sure,thats gonna win me over.
-
-
avishai
I had the elders make a shepherding call on me & my buddy (I was 18, just moved away from home, & had stopped going to meetings)on a fri. night @ 10 p.m. Trying to catch us drinking beer of smoking pot, I'm sure. It just so happened that I had to work the next day & was getting ready for bed. When I told them this, & to come back later one elder stuck his foot in the door & said, No, we need to talk to you now. I told them to get off my property, & come back at a more reasonable hour. They never came back to shepherd me. Darn.
-
181
Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz
by silentlambs ini wish them peace.
at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.
for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.
-
-
avishai
Wow, IW! What a great example of jw thinking! If you choose to leave & do your own thing, disagree with the status quo (wbts, ray franz, whatever) then that automatically makes you "unreasonable" & "burning your bridges"! Wow. Are you still a Jw?
-
108
The Real Truth About Raymond V. Franz Revealed!
by bjc2012 inand for those reasons, coj wanted in the beginning, to stay with the organization, just like bill bowens.
that is all carl wanted.
yes, as members of the governing body, they knew full well, exactly what carl's writings meant.
-
-
avishai
I agree that almost everyone here did messed up things as a jw. But, megadude, why should Bill apologize? Yes Franz has helped a lot of people, including myself, w/ his books. Do I believe that his intentions are good? probably. Should I believe everything he says? No. I personally find it very dificult to believe that he never heard about child molesting. So if I were Bill I would'nt apologize either. People say, how long has he been out, he just wants reform, he's bad. How many of you spouted the same rhetoric about it being the truth, but i just can't be in it right now, right after you came out? And for those of you pointing fingers at those guys, either one, ask yourself what you've actually DONE to help others coming out, or who have been molested, or do I just sit in front of my computer and bitch? Man, if that IS what you do, get off your ass & go help someone, jw, xjw or otherwise. I love all of you. AVI
-
16
Did One Of Your Favorite JW's Leave The Truth?
by minimus inlately, more and more people are leaving "the truth".
did anyone affect you to also consider leaving "the truth"?.
-
-
avishai
Yeah, I had a buddy who said "Dammit, I just fell out of the truth & I sprained my ankle!"