Posts by The_Present

39

JW says "how could anyone learn the truth with only a bible"

by clarity in

i would appreciate your help trying to explain to a jw, how someone could just read a bible on their own and understand what it is all about.

without an organization.. also, how could nonchristians or pagans etc find out about christ without someone to teach them?

after 45 years of using the bible, it is easy for me to say to jesus question "who will you go away to?

The_Present_Truth

JWFacts you hit the nail on the head: JW's show a great lack of faith. Others may have said it in the past but you're the first one to make the comment that I've read. The JW's like to take it upon themselves to try to make things happen or take credit for things happening.

Clarity ... A scripture that comes to mind is Acts 17:11,12:

11 Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni´ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them became believers, and so did not a few of the reputable Greek women and of the men.

A quote from an article published by the WTBTS:

How can we do God’s will? We have to learn what is “fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God,” and then choose to act accordingly. (1 Timothy 2:3) That involves taking in accurate knowledge of God’s Word, the Bible. (John 17:3; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17) More than just casual Bible reading is involved. We need to imitate the first-century Jews in Beroea who heard Paul’s preaching. Of them, we read: “They received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”—Acts 17:11.

The simple answer to the JW you're addressing is this: Christians in the first century ( as cited above in Scripture and acknowledged by the WTBTS) examined only the "scriptures" daily. They didn't have the WTBTS, they didn't examine the "Scriptures and the Watchtower with printed questions at the bottom of the page for each paragraph. The scriptures were sufficient.

Not just a few became believers via this method - many. And that's how "anyone could learn the truth with only a Bible".

Shocking huh?

36

House to House and Door to Door proves to be a shame diversion

by Terry in

english standard version(2001).

woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites!

for you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.. .

The_Present_Truth

I called my mom out on the fact the the WT is just a publishing company using them as guinea pigs to buy their literature after she called me about a year ago I guess, and was raving about some new publication they had gotten either at the circuit assembly or the district convention. I'm like, "Oh really? Is there something in this "new" publication that hasn't already been covered in the thousands of previous publications?" (((Gasp))) on the other end of the phone. She says the publication has "new" information. I asked her if she knew what Solomon said regarding things that were "new" and the writing of many books?

Then I quoted her Eccl. 1:9,10: 9 : " That which has come to be, that is what will come to be; and that which has been done, that is what will be done; and so there is nothing new under the sun. 10 Does anything exist of which one may say: “See this; it is new”? It has already had existence for time indefinite; what has come into existence is from time prior to us."

and then quoted Eccl: 12:11,12:

11 " The words of the wise ones are like oxgoads, and just like nails driven in are those indulging in collections [of sentences]; they have been given from one shepherd. 12 As regards anything besides these, my son, take a warning: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion [to them] is wearisome to the flesh."

(((GASP))) !!!!!

She's like, "Who have you been talking to? APOSTATES???" (Yep, those darn apostates.)

I told her, "Just been reading my Bible mom. The only book God gave us and has saw fit to preserve all these years and not add to it. Considering that the WTBTS has only been around a short time - maybe what, 150 years+/-? ... I guess God felt the Bible was enough for mankind to get by with for the first 5850 years of mankind's existence (+/-) without having some publishing company printing thousands of books and magazines to interpret it. Don't you think?"

(((GASP)))

It's sad, sad when people are so delusional they can't put two and two together. I just got done watching a spot on CNBC talking about a Scientologist minister turned Ponzi scheme ochestrator. There's a sucker born every minute. Considering I'm in the investment business (legitimate, registered with FINRA/NASD and the States I conduct business in), I sit there and watch these TV shows on Ponzi schemes and see all the flags. I think to myself, "How do people buy into this cr@p???" One of the comments made by one of the SEC agents that took the guy down was that "in California, what sells big is exclusivity - limited access, 'only a few can get in' type sales pitches".

In a way, that's the pitch the WTBTS and JW's are making to people, and there are still those out there buying it hook, line and sinker. "Narrow is the road leading to everlasting life, and few are the ones traveling it. We know the way. Follow us."

48

Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

former jehovah's witnesses,craig emswiller is now a jewish rabbi, and is speaking up on the dialogue progam today sat.

nov,27, 2010, 7pm est.

dialouge is hosted by former jehovah's witnesses presiding overseer and watchtower historian richard rawe.

The_Present_Truth

Thanks Moshe. I'll check it out.

36

House to House and Door to Door proves to be a shame diversion

by Terry in

english standard version(2001).

woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites!

for you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.. .

The_Present_Truth

Terry,

You're spot on as always. I raised some of these points to my parents about 10 years ago prior to my big departure. I asked them to pay attention in field service and notice how seldom the "Witnesses" invite the householder to the Kingdom Hall vs. how often they just offer them literature. It's obvious when you pay attention that the work is focused on getting that literature in people's hands. I also raised the question about using more effective methods of media. Afterall, why not? Years ago they used a radio show and billboards. Why not now? It's precisely because it would show the public how messed up they really are and invite public scrutiny from individuals who really know what they're talking about. They wouldn't like that one bit. Using the door to door method, they keep things on their terms. If they meet a householder that has them outgunned on the knowledge of doctrine and they can't refute it, all they have to do is excuse themselves from the porch by saying, "We clearly have a difference of opinion. It was nice to meet you. Have a good day." When that happens, the neighbors to the left and right of that house have no idea what just happened in that conversation and that the Witness was unable to defend their beliefs against the critique just offered up. Conversely, imagine a radio show or talk show that an entire neighborhood could be listening to. The "Terry" calls in on the question line. Uh oh!!! Terry gives them both barrells, in a subtle, logical way. There's no place to go. It's out there for the whole world to listen to. Now what? Entire neighborhoods, in fact the entire audience could actually "witness" what just happened. Terry just handed the "Witnesses" their hat and they couldn't make a logical, factual defense for their teachings.

You make an excellent point about being a literal "witness" to an event or happening. Add this to it. Considering the "testimony they've given over the decades, and how it has been sworn to be absolute truth - to which they have held the rank and file and handed out punishment based on- to see how many times their testimony (story) has changed and become different, is that PERJURY?

per·ju·ry [ púrj?ree ] ( plural per·ju·ries )

noun

Definition:

1. telling lies under oath: the telling of a lie after having taken an oath to tell the truth, usually in a court of law

2. lie under oath: a lie told in a court of law by somebody who has taken an oath to tell the truth

[ 14th century. Via Anglo-Norman< Latin perjurium< perjurare (see perjure ) ]

Great points Terry. Would love to have you sit down with my family and lift the scales from their eyes.

The_Present_Truth

48

Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

former jehovah's witnesses,craig emswiller is now a jewish rabbi, and is speaking up on the dialogue progam today sat.

nov,27, 2010, 7pm est.

dialouge is hosted by former jehovah's witnesses presiding overseer and watchtower historian richard rawe.

The_Present_Truth

Moshe,

Can you tell us a little more about this DNA testing? Where does a person go to have that done? What is the cost? Do they have a profile of DNA of all groups to compare yours to. It's very interesting.

Thanks,

The_Present_Truth

11

What degree of accuracy and consistency do you feel it's fair to hold today's religions to?

by The_Present_Truth in

as most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins.

doesn't seem to matter where you look - the jw's included.

so i find myself asking myself, "to what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?".

The_Present_Truth

Marcus,

Thanks for your comments. For the record, I didn't mean that in a smart*ss way. I just didn't want the discussion to be focused on the WT anymore than necessary. That said, I understand completely the tendency for an ex-JW to size up the world according to JW lore. I've been guilty of it and still fight it to this day. I could tell you were schooled in Theology and religious history. I was too. I actually attended the Theocratic Ministry School for about 20 years.Maybe you've heard of it? LOL ...ha ha ha .... (Sorry couldn't resist a little humor. It's pathetic I know.) I both respect and appreciate your schooling, knowledge and willingness to share.

Interesting that you're Jewish now. I wouldn't mind visiting with you about that off to the side in PM's if you're game. I've been reading up on Judaism lately.

JWFacts ... Great post. I tend to agree 100%. Always enjoy your posts.

Heaven .... Re: If the Old Testament had been working, there wouldn't have been a need for a New Testament.

Couple of things ... One, I'd have to ask if the New Testament is working any better than the Old Testament. My personal thoughts - not really. The world is just as messed up as it was back then prior to the New Testament - just as messed up, only on a grander scale with more complicated elements.

Second, those of Jewish persuasion probably feel about the New Testament the same way that most Christians feel about the Book of Mormon. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

I tend to agree with you though that "religion" is a man-made construction meant to control the masses. Short of God choosing the nation of Israel to be his chosen people in Biblical times and demonstrating this to be so, as we're told in Scripture (assuming for this discussion the accounts of such are true) I really can't see any evidence of God endorsing any modern day religion and blessing it with his overwhelming presence and a baseline of accuracy and consistency that can't be missed.

To say that the Bible is not the inerrant word of God, doesn't that contradict the notion set forth at 2 Timothy 3:16,17 where it talks about "All" Scriptures being inspired and beneficial ..... ? If a person doesn't believe in the New Testament then 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 would have no bearing on things.

Appreciate all the thoughts.

1

Walking away scot-free from the WTO.

by Marie B. Paraison in

jw
friends

as a freelance writer would i not get disfellowshiped if i remained in the jehovahs witness organization?

apostasy and disfellowship are both fear-inspiring words that impede good sense and pro-activity.

in my instance, i walked away scot- free from this organization.

The_Present_Truth

F.E.A.R. = False Evidence Appearing Real

11

What degree of accuracy and consistency do you feel it's fair to hold today's religions to?

by The_Present_Truth in

as most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins.

doesn't seem to matter where you look - the jw's included.

so i find myself asking myself, "to what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?".

The_Present_Truth

Marcus,

I don't recall stating it as you did:

Degree of accuracy based on what I was exposed to by the Watchtower? Can someone hold my head while I vomit? Thanks...

That's absolutely NOT what I was inferring since I no longer use the Watchtower or the JW's as my baseline for determining truth or consistency. Instead, I'd like to think that we can use the Bible as a historical record along with other secular records to account for what happened in history, what didn't, cities that may have existed, the people that may have lived there, battles that may have occurred, artifacts such as swords and the like that would have been found to validate it, etc. Take for instance the Mormons/LDS and there claims that certain cities existed - yet there's absolutely no record or evidence of them being here. Or that they claim these enormous battles took place in upstate NY and yet there hasn't been one relic found to validate that - even by their own admission. Or that Native Americans are descendants of the nation of Israel - yet DNA studies conclusively show no link between Native Americans and those originating from Israel. Etc, etc.....

Or how are we supposed to feel about religions that may give "incidental worship" to Satan by allowing, encouraging, or winking at celebrating morphed holidays that desensitize a person's conscience to things that may be displeasing to God? Halloween comes to mind - Demons, vampires, etc .... sure, Halloween's roots didn't start there, yet it's an obvious, visible part of the celebration today. I can't imagine for a second that Jesus would endorse that holiday or participate in it himself. That's the kind of baseline I'm suggesting. What would Jesus do? At least if you claim to be Christian. If you're Jewish then you obviously wouldn't use that baseline.

The scripture about light and darkness not mixing ,..nor truth with untruth ... continually pops in my mind. That's straight from the scriptures and not the Watchtower. So is it too "critical" to hold today's religions to that test? And I mean all religions and beliefs - not picking on any one group or holiday per say.

Thanks for sharing all that about Christmas Marcus - even though that wasn't what I was getting at with my question. It was an interesting read.

48

Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

former jehovah's witnesses,craig emswiller is now a jewish rabbi, and is speaking up on the dialogue progam today sat.

nov,27, 2010, 7pm est.

dialouge is hosted by former jehovah's witnesses presiding overseer and watchtower historian richard rawe.

The_Present_Truth

Moshe,

Is it a requirement for conversion to Judaism that you have a lineage of Jewish blood?

48

Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

former jehovah's witnesses,craig emswiller is now a jewish rabbi, and is speaking up on the dialogue progam today sat.

nov,27, 2010, 7pm est.

dialouge is hosted by former jehovah's witnesses presiding overseer and watchtower historian richard rawe.

The_Present_Truth

Didn't the Jews end up demonstrating that they had a major difference of opinion regarding Jesus "worldview" vs. theirs? I think the title "Messianic" Jew is where the significant difference comes in. The jews did not and do not feel that Jesus was the Messiah. Correct?

The_Present_Truth

Posts by The_Present_Truth