Saved_JW

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Posts by Saved_JW

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  9

  what is truth - Pilate asked Jesus

  by Ruby456 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think pilate was being socratic when he asked jesus - what is truth?.

  my question is to do with whether or not jesus was also being socratic when he said he had come to bear witness to the truth.

  my idea is that both pilate and jesus were talking about a kind of ethics to live.

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  Saved_JW

  Your right, I mean Rhetorical! lol. I defiantly know the difference between the two
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  94

  What other Shenanigans can we expect to see in the next 2 years?

  by John Aquila in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  its been a little over 2 years since i left the watchtower.

  in that time the magazines have been cut, the birth of jwtv, jw-org.

  carts for preaching, removed district overseers, cut assemblies, demand all the money from the congregations, stop construction and layoff bethelites, change the format of the tmschool .

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  Saved_JW

  I suspect a much greater emphasis on cart witnessing, door to door evangelism is not effective with bringing people to the kingdom halls.

  I also suspect changes in the way people are disfellowshipped. DF'd people are much more of a liability to the religion then minor forms of punishment. They will be a lot more lenient with people going foreword. I say that because it makes business sense, and we all know, the business comes first, not theology or integrity to their interpretation of scripture.

  I also suspect automatic payments [monthly] to be an option on the website. This is the next logical step foreword for monetary contributions.
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  9

  what is truth - Pilate asked Jesus

  by Ruby456 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think pilate was being socratic when he asked jesus - what is truth?.

  my question is to do with whether or not jesus was also being socratic when he said he had come to bear witness to the truth.

  my idea is that both pilate and jesus were talking about a kind of ethics to live.

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  Saved_JW

  You are correct, Pilate was being Socratic in the way he responded to Jesus claim. His main concern was that Jesus was trying to start a rebellion by claiming to be the King of the Jews. Jesus response was a theological one, where he did claim to be king, just not of this world.

  This is why Pilate found no guilt [as to the accusations made by the Pharisees] for the claim of being King.

  Greek Philosophers have long struggled with the question of "the Logos" in other words, the one element that unites all things together. The Logos was another way of saying "the Truth" Jesus was essentially claiming to be that Truth that unites all things. Thus making him King or supreme over all things.
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  23

  How Jehovah's Witnesses could become a huge mainstream religion without harming people. Any thoughts?

  by JWchange in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if jws did the following, i believe they would grow exponentially and become one of the largest 'religions' on earth : .

  1. no more dfing or shunning......its up to your conscience who you like or don't like.

  in the same way if i was catholic living in ireland, i wouldn't hang out with my neighbor if she was a drunk fornicator, just had an abortion, had a taliban boyfriend and also supported liverpool soccer club.

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  Saved_JW

  I have actually put a lot of thought into this very subject. I am afraid if I post my thoughts, the lurking JW bethel member will pick up on my idea. But here it goes.

  1- Centralized Authority

  This is actually a huge problem for the Watchtower. Having so much power delegated to central authorities makes the organization hard to manage. and therefore un-effective for a number of reasons.

  When your authority figure is distant and not known by the rank and file member, dedication and motivation plummet. In fact the only thing one can reinforce is obedience by fear.

  Look at the LDS [Mormon] Church as a good example of how to manage members. Much of the authority is delegated to local "Stake" and "ward" levels. Pretty much ALL inquiries and disciplinary models are handled locally. this gives leadership freedom and leeway to handle individuals based on customs and circumstances differently.

  Another huge advantage to this is that local leadership knows intimately the people they are dealing with. This of course means no hasty conclusions are going to be made [for the most part] and the individuals respond much better to correction and changes being made.

  Another huge factor to consider is the loyalty to leadership as well. When more responsibility is delegated and entrusted to local leaders, their dedication to the organization increases which means less retention and increased loyalty. Leaders and members not being governed by fear is a HUGE motivational factor to consider.

  2- Scripted Material

  This is almost an extension of the first problem. When ALL talks are prepared centrally, this takes away from the human element of giving speeches. Have you ever watched somebody read a passionate speech from a teleprompter? It comes across as fake. The information may be insightful, but moving people into action is [at its core] an emotional appeal. something that cannot be manufactured or scripted.

  In an effort to be consistent across all kingdom halls, the Watchtower has sacrificed passion, emotion, love and all those elements that make persuasive speeches moving at the alter of strict doctrinal consistency. The result?
  Members who come to meetings and hear informational material, but are not passionately moved to do anything. Only repeat information to others out of fear, which by the way will not motivate others they speak to who are not governed by fear.

  3- No Culture

  Lets be honest, If you ask the average joe on the street: "What do Jehovah's Witnesses believe" nobody will know. In fact, the only thing they know are what the Jehovah's Witness DONT believe. Having a reputation for only negative factors is a huge blind spot. [not celebrating holidays, flag salute , etc..]

  Jehovah's Witnesses can only relate to one another [brotherhood] with negative factors. Oh I don't celebrate holidays either! This is hardly the glue that should mold a culture together.
  The Watchtower needs to encourage a culture of diversity, where individual talents and passions are encouraged, not smothered. Instead of having Christmas, why dosnt the Watchtower promote other Holidays of their own choosing? Have a separate and unique culture that can counter the culture around them.

  By not doing this, they loose a HUGE amount of the younger generation who feel shackled and confined.

  4- Kingdom Halls Stuck in the turn of the 20th century

  lets be honest, the "church" model that the Watchtower has is stuck in the last century. Who sings Hymns anymore. Being inside of a kingdom hall is enough to make anybody anxious and unwelcome. In an effort to be neutral of religious icons, they have again replaced that perceived neutrality for a dull and culturally dead atmosphere.

  I have lots more, but time limits me. peace out
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  6

  Thoughts on "Our Christian Life and Ministry" meeting

  by Saved_JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just watched the sample meeting corresponding to the new release of "our christian life and ministry" and i have a few lingering thoughts.

  1- meeting layout simplified to match level of publishers.

  when i grew up in the watchtower, the only real positive takeaway i have is being forced from a very young age to have the skill for public speaking, this has directly helped me with my confidence and gave me a skillset that is valuable in my current job.

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  Saved_JW

  Honestly, it really ain't that subtle.

  your right, lol
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  6

  Thoughts on "Our Christian Life and Ministry" meeting

  by Saved_JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just watched the sample meeting corresponding to the new release of "our christian life and ministry" and i have a few lingering thoughts.

  1- meeting layout simplified to match level of publishers.

  when i grew up in the watchtower, the only real positive takeaway i have is being forced from a very young age to have the skill for public speaking, this has directly helped me with my confidence and gave me a skillset that is valuable in my current job.

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  Saved_JW

  I just watched the sample meeting corresponding to the new release of "our Christian life and Ministry" and I have a few lingering thoughts.

  1- Meeting Layout simplified to match level of publishers

  When I grew up in the Watchtower, the only real positive takeaway I have is being forced from a very young age to have the skill for public speaking, This has directly helped me with my confidence and gave me a skillset that is valuable in my current job.
  
  What is interesting about this new layout, is the focus isn't so much on training the Publisher with any real practical skill in evangelism, instead the focus is on entertainment. The new layout of the magazine I will admit is much more informative and simplified [no doubt an effort to cut through the boredom of the two tone Kingdom Ministry] However replacing the student talks with videos will not be effective when it comes to training the publisher to be confident in speaking to the public.

  The "Bible Highlights" portion of the meeting is vastly simplified. Notice that the Watchtower sets the agenda for WHAT the bible reading is, and the application of the chapter being read. The speakers job is to simply repeat the application. Gone are the days when the individual Witness read the chapter for himself, and delivered from his own words the application of the verse.

  Also notice that the questions are CLOSED ENDED. No more are the witnesses encouraged to simply comment on what they read in the bible reading. Much like the Watchtower study, bible reading questions are prepackaged and are tailored to steer the reader to specific conclusions of what the bible reading is about. Thus the publisher is drawing the same conclusions as the Watchtower as to how to understand and apply the bible chapter [through the WT Doctrinal Lens]

  2- Subtle propaganda

  I noticed something very fascinating about this video, the very specific camera shots of the publishers holding Ipads and tablets in the audience. I believe there is a push for members to move to digital devices in an effort to curb printing costs. I just wanted to add that the Watchtower often times pushes agendas without saying a word.

  3- Still a sales meeting

  I find it very funny that the Watchtower makes a change, without actually changing anything. If the end goal of the Watchtower is to make an effective service to produce publishers effective in field ministry, I am afraid that this program being implemented is simply more of the same thing. Its still a sales presentation, minus any experiential training.

  What I see is an effort to make the meeting more entertaining and interactive visually, but hardly prepares the publishers for "Real world encounters"

  The sales pitches for the WT magazine assume that the Householder is dumb as a box of rocks, they allow the JW in the presentation to completely control the flow of the conversation with absolutely no objections. In my experience this is hardly if ever the case. What this means is that the sales presentations at the meetings do not actually prepare the Jehovah's Witness for effective apologetics thus being able to defend their own point of view. Another way of sheltering and controlling conversations. Any real objections or challenges at the door are met with deaf ears and a "do not call" next to the address.
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  447

  Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

  by LaurenM in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

  even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

  the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

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  Saved_JW

  From a strict Philosophical point of view, I really don't understand how our culture [this post included] ties in the subject of the existence of god with the existence of evil.

  In other words: Evil exists = No god

  Historically this has never been the case. The ancient pantheists [Egypt, Babylon, Greece, Rome..] never tied in moral virtues [as our culture defines them] with religion or the existence of God. They were separate things.

  Morality was strictly a philosophical concept and was a topic of much debate. Religion and god was tied into power, magic and sacrifice. In fact, they viewed the gods [or nature] as more powerful yet equally as morally depraved as we are.

  So you can see why I find it strange how people simply discredit the existence of god by using subjective emotions of what morality should or should not look like.
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  48

  Does God Exist? / Who is God? These are Questions which Lead nowhere. What is God Like, is the Correct Question.

  by LAWHFol in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there are 2 questions that generate more pain,suffering & death, than any other question in existence.. these 2 questions are :.

  "does god exist?".

  "who is god"?.

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  Saved_JW

  how does Life go from simple to complex,

  Evolution by natural selection

  @Cofty There is no scientific model through testing or otherwise that will demonstrate even on the simplest level life going from simple to complex. If anything [using DNA as an example] we see life breaking down.

  Each generation looses information in the DNA, mutations contaminate our dna structure as we loose information. Same thing happens with the breeding of dogs. In every instance we can prove that information is lost.

  Yet you simply declare that life goes from simple to complex through evolution and natural selection. This my friend is a faith statement, not grounded in science, but scientism [the religion of science] you simply bought their dogma.

  Peace
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  28

  You tell me, does God give a damn?You tell me , do God give a damn?In one word. . .NO!

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  2005...three billion people live on less than $2.50 a day.

  at least 80% of humanity lives on less.

  than $10.00 a day.

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  Saved_JW

  I guess this really depends on perspective. Having money can be a blessing or a curse. Same thing with poverty, some would even consider poverty a blessing. Some religious traditions in the East take vows of poverty because that brings them closer to god, having money is possessions is a distraction.

  For most of human history people lived on their own means; growing their own food etc.. So does God care that people are living on less then 3.00 a day? This statement assumes that God cares about financial prosperity in the first place. It also assumes that this life on earth is the fulfillment of Gods purposes.
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  24

  New hominid Species Discovered in South Africa

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  homo naledi has been added to our family tree but exactly where, is still to be discovered.

  read more here.... over 1500 fossils making up 15 separate individuals have been discovered in a cave near johannesburg.

  here are a few highlights of it's anatomy.... the skull was globular, like a member of our genus but the brain was small and primitive.

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  Saved_JW

  Addressing the question about human evolution:

  We really have to define first of all what it means that we are "evolving" many people make pragmatic assumptions that evolution benefits a species in some way.

  The problem with this is that inherent in that assumption is that evolution has a goal. There is no scientific basis to establish this. A lot of evolutionary theory is philosophy based on observation.

  IN fact, from what we do know of the DNA structure, we loose information. There is no model scientific or otherwise which will show DNA mutation that gains information. So are we evolving as humans? depends on what you mean by evolving. If anything we know we are loosing information in each generation. Mutations in the dna that loose information is never a good thing. Apperances and traits can change over time but we cannot say based on evidence that those changes result in different species.

  When we breed dogs, the same is true. We take away from the DNA and loose information. We can modify height, appearance, traits. But we can never modify the species nor can we add to the DNA.