Posts by sabastious

21

Something the CO said at the CA last week...

by Soldier77 in

... that i just remembered.

it has been brought up in one of the many enlightening posts here, but i wanted to just share what he said.. the co was speaking about how the org growth has somewhat tapered off and not seeing the large increases as before (too bad we don't have a talk about how many that have left!

) and that the org is now 7+mil active members (yes, he said active specifically).

sabastious

Abolishing the Shunning arrangement would be the best business decision they ever made. They would get back a lot of people who miss their family's

-Sab

36

Question for ALL ex JW's or those who don't believe everything - (the answers here may help you and your answers may help others)

by EndofMysteries in

please answer the question(s) which corresponds to your current belief, if you believe in a. the bible and god.

b. just god, but no bible c. neither (atheist).

i'm asking for mutual benefit, in my quest for the truth (still a work in progress), some of the things i've run into you may want to think about, and in your answers will show if anything i haven't thought of or checked into yet, as well as all readying this.... (all the hours you've spent, vs just my own, having many combined may bring up a few good things for us all from everyones answers ).

sabastious

@Terry

I 100% agree with what you said. Your post wasa beautiful!

That is the essence of life, the unknown. When you accept the unknown... peace and freedom of mind soon follows.

I look at life as a massive puzzle with an infinite amount of puzzle peices. Some get a part of the puzzle done and do get a clear picture formed, so they stop and declare the puzzle complete. But it is not complete, once other peices are in place their picture might change meaning drastically. When that happens they need to swallow their pride and continue the puzzle. Sadly most just stick to their interpretation of the puzzle as others continue to work on it.

The puzzle peices are knowledge, and knowledge is ever lasting.

-Sab

9

Kingdom News 37 - That was quite the hype for a bit wasn't it?

by sabastious in

the end of false religion is near!.

when that came out it it sent chills down my spine... i knew the end was close... that was 4 years ago.... does 4 years constitute as "near"?

) (revelation 18:4) indeed, now is the time to flee from false religion!

sabastious

The End of False Religion is NEAR!

When that came out it it sent chills down my spine... I knew the end was close... that was 4 years ago...

Does 4 years constitute as "near"? Not in my book.

Here's a writeup I just did of that Kingdom News that was oh so scary 4 years ago for me:

Kingdom NewsNo. 37

A WorldwideMessage

The EndofFalseReligionIsNear!

- What is false religion?

Religion that is false?

- How will it end?

One day someone will figure out they are full of shit?

- How will you be affected?

Probably in some fashion

What IsFalseReligion? – dude, I already answered that ^

Are you distressed about crimes committed in the name of religion? Do the warfare, terrorism, and corruption perpetrated by those who claim to serve God offend your sense of justice? (well, now that you mention it, YEAH!) Why does religion seem to be at the root of so many problems? (That’s a pretty deep question and this pamphlet is like two pages and it’s mostly pictures)

The fault lies, not with all religion, but with false religion. A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ (unless your Jewish), indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield? (cactus apples?)

False Religion . . .

- MEDDLESINWARANDPOLITICS: “Across Asia and beyond,” says the journal Asiaweek, “power-hungry leaders are cynically manipulating people’s religious sentiments for their own needs.” As a result, the journal warns: “The world threatens to sink into madness.” A prominent religious leader in the United States declared: “You’ve got to kill the terrorists before the killing stops.” His solution? “Blow them all away in the name of the Lord.” By contrast, the Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.” (1 John 4:20) Jesus even said: “Continuetoloveyourenemies.” (Matthew 5:44) How many religions can you think of whose members engage in war? (the first emotion that comes to MY mind when my friends are blown up by a suicide bomber is definitely love)

- SPREADSFALSEDOCTRINE: Most religions teach that the soul or spirit is some invisible part of a human that survives the death of the physical body. By means of this teaching, many of these religions exploit their members, charging money to pray for departed souls. (so far the reasoning in this pamphlet gives me complete confidence you are not trying to exploit me at all!) However, the Bible teaches a different doctrine. “Thesoulthatissinning—ititselfwilldie.” (Ezekiel 18:4) “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Jesus taught that the dead will be resurrected—an unnecessary action if humans had an immortal soul. (unless the soul can die) (John 11:11-25) Does your religion teach that the soul does not die?

- TOLERATESIMMORALSEX: In Western lands, church groups ordain gay and lesbian members of the clergy and urge governments to recognize same-sex marriages. (I DO run across an awful lot of gay pastors these days) Even churches that condemn immorality have tolerated religious leaders who have sexually abused children. (gasp! Will someone PLEASE think of the children! Wait, haven’t I read accusations of that with YOUR organization?) What, though, does the Bible teach? It plainly states: “Donotbemisled.Neitherfornicators,noridolaters,noradulterers,normenkeptforunnaturalpurposes,normenwholiewithmen. . .willinheritGod’skingdom.” (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Do you know of religions that condone immoral sex? (not condone, tolerate really. Humans are humping monkey’s I sure as hell understand not trying to police those horny bastards, btw how is your track record in that arena?)

What does the future hold for religions that produce rotten fruit? (those cactus apples hurt!) Jesus warned: “Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matthew 7:19) Yes, false religion will be chopped down and destroyed! (no one likes cactus apples anyway) But how and when will this happen? A prophetic vision recorded in the Bible book of Revelation, chapters 17 and 18, provides the answer. (Oh Revelation? That book is bullet proof!)

How WillFalseReligionEnd?

Picture the scene. A harlot is sitting on the back of a fearsome beast. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. (Ok, but that is hell of weird) (Revelation 17:1-4) Whom does the harlot represent? She exerts influence “over the kings of the earth.” She dresses in purple, uses incense, and is exceedingly wealthy. In addition, by means of her spiritistic practice, ‘allthenations are misled.’ (Revelation 17:18; 18:12, 13, 23) The Bible helps us to see that this harlot is a worldwide religious entity. She depicts, not any one religion, but all religions that produce rotten fruit. (Ok, I get it. But couldn’t the Harlot represent the Weather? The weather influences the actions of the kings of the earth and damn is it hard to predict! Therefore being wholly misleading! Why, the other day there wasn’t barely a cloud in the sky and Blake Griffon from KQUS said it was going to be a good day for the lake but by the time I got there…)

The beast that the harlot rides pictures the world’s political powers. (of course it does, it’s the only explanation!) (Revelation 17:10-13) False religion straddles the back of this political beast, attempting to influence its decisions and to control its direction. (Ok, I’ll go with this religious entity thing, but don’t give up on my weather idea.)

Soon, though, an amazing event will take place. “The ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) In a sudden, shocking move, the world’s political powers will turn on false religion and completely destroy her! What will prompt this action? The Bible book of Revelation answers: “God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought.” (ok…) (Revelation 17:17) Yes, God will call false religion to account for all the despicable acts she has committed in his name. In a stroke of perfect justice, he will use her political paramours as his instrument of execution. (except for democratic nations of course, since they don’t have kings)

What must you do if you do not want to share the fate of false religion? “Get out of her, my people,” urges God’s messenger. (kinky!) (Revelation 18:4) Indeed, now is the time to flee from false religion! But to where can you flee? Not into atheism, since its future is also bleak. (shit! really? aw man…)(2 Thessalonians 1:6-9) The only haven is within true religion. How can you identify true religion? (I can see where this going…)

How toIdentifyTrueReligion

What good fruit should true religion produce?—Matthew 7:17. (I don’t own a bible! You cant just cite verses like that! Alright I will take your word for it, Mathew 7:17 probably supports your fruity point.)

True Religion . . .

- PRACTICESLOVE: True worshippers are “no part of the world,” are not divided by race or culture, and display ‘love among themselves.’ (John 13:35; 17:16; Acts 10:34, 35) Rather than killing one another, they are willing to die for one another.—1 John 3:16. (sounds like a group of people I could get used to!)

- TRUSTSGOD’SWORD: Instead of teaching “tradition” and “commands of men as doctrines,” true religion bases its doctrine on God’s Word, the Bible. (so you are a tradition-less people, got it.) (Matthew 15:6-9) Why? Because “all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight.” (Ok let me reiterate here so I make sure I get this. The bible says I should trust it in 2 Timothy, so you use that verse to convince me to trust the bible. K, just clarifying that)—2 Timothy 3:16.

- STRENGTHENSFAMILIESANDUPHOLDSHIGHMORALSTANDARDS: True religion trains husbands to ‘love their wives as their own bodies,’ (But never more! That’s just weird) helps wives to develop ‘deep respect for their husbands,’ (Is it just me or is this pamphlet full of hidden sexual innuendo?) and teaches children to ‘be obedient to their parents.’ (Among other things right?) (Ephesians 5:28, 33; 6:1) In addition, those entrusted with positions of authority must have exemplary morals. (What constitutes “exemplary morals”?)—1 Timothy 3:1-10.

Does any religion meet these standards? (I know your going to say there is at LEAST one!) The book HolocaustPolitics, published in 2001, says: “If more people practiced versions of what the Jehovah’s Witnesses preach and practice, the Holocaust could have been prevented and genocide would scourge the world no more.” (So could have other church organizations, sure they would have homo pastors and hand our cactus apples to their members, but the holocaust still wouldn’t have happened)

Indeed, in 235 lands, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not just preach the Bible’s moral standards—they live by them. We urge you to ask Jehovah’s Witnesses to help you learn what God requires of you so that you can worship him acceptably. Now is the time to act. Do not delay. The end of false religion is near!—Zephaniah 2:2, 3. (This is funny, I’d like to see what would happen to anyone who tried to ban religion on all fronts, globally. Sure God will put it into their minds right? Well does it mention how “God” is going deal with the Billions of inconsolably pissed off people of the world who just lost the only thing they live for? Sorry dudes, but this pamphlet is about as convincing as a snake oil salesmen of 1874)

If you want more information about the Bible-based message that Jehovah’s Witnesses preach, feel free to contact them at the address below.

? Without obligation, I request a copy of the brochure KeepontheWatch!

? Please contact me concerning a free home Bible study.

[ X ] Without obligation, please send me every one of these “Kingdom News” things you hand out, they provide me with comic material I could not even try to make up myself.

50

Is Jehovah Telling the Governing Body to Shut Down?

by metatron in

jw
friends

is the governing body haunted by the thought that jehovah is telling them no and shut down?.

rutherford is reported to have sought cash and rationed coal as a test of jehovah's will.

knorr reported on getting an unexpected windfall of cash when they sought to buy the towers hotel.. but from where i sit, jehovah seems to have become very ungenerous towards these would-be theocrats, in recent years.. they dumped subscriptions.. they cut literature.. they went to paperbacks.. they cut magazines, by my count, for the third time.. they laid off bethelites.. they sold off brooklyn buildings.. they sold off printing/binding equipment.. so, now their latest 'litmus test' of jehovah's will is to simply dump the magazines in one lump and tell people to only take what they need.

sabastious

I have always thought the "downsizing" was a ploy to instil fear into the Rank & File.

Something along the lines of "The Organization is simplifying because we are getting ready for the final stretch... better up my monthly donations to help with this final push!"

-Sab

23

ATTENTION ALL LURKING, CURIOUS JW'S, JW TROLLS, AND FORMER JW'S DETERMINED TO SAVE JW'S FROM THEMSELVES

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

thank you all.. it seems that we former jw's have excellent reasons to be be upset.

between being lied to about how russell and rutherford started this fruity little cult, having to deal with the coverups of pedophiles and other criminals, the mysoginistic treatment of women, being lied to about 1914 and the related date of 607 bce, the ridiculous and ever changing blood doctrine, being lied to about gb involvement in the un, the changed it once and now back again understanding of what a "generation" is, being lied to about when the end of this system was supposed to come, being lied to about 1975, being told not to go to college and instead explore the underrated world of window washing with the outstanding income potential it produces...... *panting* i am sorry, i am out of breath...... my point is this, (and i speak from experience): former jw's are pretty raw.

and thus, easily exploitable on internet boards by trolls.. trolls see this.

sabastious

Just let them argue until the sun rises and they all turn to stone.

-Sab

14

My Offical Farewell To the God of The Bible

by sabastious in

jw
friends

music is the only way i could think of making it official:.

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_3996772.

-sab.

sabastious

Music is the only way I could think of making it official:

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_3996772

-Sab

67

Jehovah and the Munchausen Syndrome

by Terry in

what is munchausen by proxy syndrome?.

one of the most harmful forms of child abuse, munchausen by proxy syndrome was named after baron von munchausen, an eighteenth-century german dignitary known for telling outlandish stories.

a parent will induce illness or injury in their own child and then take the victim in to the hospital to be seen as the heroic savior.. typically, the perpetrator feels satisfied when he or she has the attention and sympathy of doctors, nurses, and others who come into contact with him or her and the child.. because the parent or caregiver appears to be so caring and attentive, often no one suspects any wrongdoing.. .

sabastious

The argument is this:

It's all our fault, always has been and always will be. God did not do this to us, we did it to ourselves.

Hmmm, fathers and husbands around the world tell this exact line to their abuse victims.

-Sab

3

Shunning is Not a Form of Love, According to the Bible

by sabastious in

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sabastious

Thank you Lady Liberty, that is an most interesting link.

-Sab

3

Shunning is Not a Form of Love, According to the Bible

by sabastious in

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sabastious

Shunning is Not a Form of Love, According to the Bible

Love is long-suffering and kind

Shunning is unkind and quick to be applied. If a JW is unrepetent of a serious sin shunning is in effect immediately making it opposite of long-suffering.

Does not behave indecently

Shunning is a harsh judgment. The person shunning is, in effect, saying that the offender is not worthy of God’s love and will be destroyed if Armageddon were to come the next day. It is indecent to judge others heart conditions (which is what you have to do to disfellowship someone). Which is why Jesus spoke against it.

Love does not look for its own interests

Shunning involves looking out for your own interests because if you do not abide by the policy then you will be shunned as well. The REASON for shunning is because the people shunning do not want to be corrupted by the gross sinner which is a very personal reason.

Love does not become provoked.

Shunning is in response to an act, a punishment, which by definition requires to be provoked.

Love does not keep account of the injury.

One reason to be shunned is because of past sin. If one has been disfellowshipped twice before (even for different sins) they are used to put the offender “on thin ice.” This is keeping account of injury.

Love does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth

Being shunned can be very satisfying to the JW members since it is their cardinal way of exacting justice. Even though it can be a sad event, all JWs rejoice in the justice of Shunning.

Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things

Shunning can be a life sentence. That very fact is at complete odds with the above attribute of love.

Love never fails

This is the cardinal attribute of love. This states that True Love is unconditional and will never falter. If you ever feel compelled to shun a loved one, your love has failed and therefore shunning cannot be considered a loving act. You are stating, through action, that your loved one is not good enough for you to even say a greeting to. Surely love has failed if you have gotten to this point…

But love cannot fail!

-Sab

1

Why Shunning is as Far Away from Christianity As You Can Get

by sabastious in

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sabastious

Why Shunning is as Far Away from Christianity As You Can Get

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in the concept of “shunning.” This is where a certain person is “marked” in the JW society as “unfit for association” for a variety of reasons.

My argument is that there are no circumstances of which Shunning should be the most “Christian thing to do.”

Picture the Jesus of the Gospels. Kind, caring and impartial even to gross sinners. Of course he did not condone what they were doing, but he did have compassion for them and the path that they chose for themselves.

Someone who chooses a destructive course of life is the LAST person who needs to be pushed away. Why are they choosing this destructive lifestyle? It’s a great question for anyone to ask when someone they know approaches a “dark side they don’t want to follow.”

This doesn’t mean that keeping this friend at “arms length” emotionally is not their best option, which of course can be helpful. But eternal exile until the offending party changes is an ineffective at way helping that person and plain selfish on the part of the person shunning.

Think about it? Why would someone choose to never again attempt to help a friend out? Emphasis on the NEVER. There can be only one true reason for this and it doesn’t involve the sinner, it involves the person doing the shunning.

A Jehovah’s Witness would say that they are putting “Jehovah first” but that is a lie. They are putting THEMSELVES first. The ONLY reason why a person would CHOOSE to NEVER allow someone into their life again, while they live what they deem destructive behavior, is because they feel their spirituality is at risk, and in turn their ETERNAL LIFE.

It’s their reward they are hoarding. Their friend is not worth the POSSIBILITY that they might lose out on the New World. Emphasis on the word possibility.

To illustrate (the JWs LOVE this word): You have a dear friend of many years. You and this friend are at the lake with many other friends. Your friend swims out into the deep part of the lake and you are in the shallows and can touch the ground with your feet. You told your friend not to swim out too far because you know they are a poor swimmer and it could be dangerous. They swim out there anyway and sure enough they get a cramp and start to have some trouble.

As they blatantly start to drown you look the other way. First, you told them not to do it and they are reaping the consequences for their actions, second you are not a great swimmer either and there is a possibility that they might take you under as well. So you yell to the people around you that your friend is having trouble, which are much further away from you.

Your friend is saved by a stranger and resuscitated using CPR. This fiasco could have been wholly avoided if you would have acted swiftly and helped.

How would you tell this to your friend after it was all said and done? How would your friend feel about the reasons why you DID NOTHING yourself?

My guess is the friendship would end. You have acted selfishly and would put your own safety above the life of a friend.

The same goes for shunning someone you love because of a fear that you might lose out on eternal life.

Are true friends and family not worth the risk? Do Jehovah’s Witnesses know for SURE that they would “drown” if they tried to help a spiritually drowning loved one?

Erring on the side of caution, with a friend’s life at stake. Does this sound like the mark of Jesus’ true followers which would have so much “love amongst themselves” that they would be easily identified among the masses?

Your choice.

-Sab