someone else suggested this so i just figured, ok let's do it.. 1. all present jws died and i became the sole leader of the entire religion.
2. then i would dissolve the religion and burn every last memory of it ever existing.
3. all books would be burned, all buildings destroyed.
Only way I'd go back is if God actually parted the sky, sent down a magical dove thats super huge and have it land on where ever the Watchtower's main building is going to be and said "Hey, its not so bad once you get passed all the craziness. I'll even give you the 24oz glass of kool-aid with ice."
then... I'd play video games for about an hour or so before I answered.
throwing this out to the board for input.
my father will be giving his first public talk shortly.
i was shocked by the audacity to be asked to come to his public talk, being told i don't have to believe or come back but can simply come to show my support for him.
In my current condition I would go, because I've learned to separate what they do and say from my life. Its like I like to eat meat and I know a vegan who wants me to come see them get an award for being the most friendly to animals that year. Sure, they'll introduce me to people that'll try to persuade me to not eat meat, but thats them. Its part of the beast, so to speak.
For me, its not what THEY do thats important anymore, its what "I" do that matters most. If you've got your own identity in check, i see no problem with going. I went to my brother-in-law's first public talk. Gave him a thumbs up at the beginning, got bored 5 minutes in and spent the rest of the time creating a flip book in the margin of the bible i got in the lost and found box at the hall he attended. People came up to me and asked me how i was , and I said "Great!" and I meant it. No reason to hide how awesome you feel not being one and no reason to be angry with them cause you've got better things to spend your emotions on.
this is my first post here.
i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?
in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.
The Organizational heads have the ability to jettison any teaching they want at this point. Earlier in the organizations history letting go of 1914 might have been a problem, but over time the Governing Body has created pegs of persuasion that keep you held down like a well spiked tent and you'll be able to stay in your congnitive dissonant state.
An example is the phrase "A perfect, God lead, organization run by imperfect humans." - Quite a few Governing body members said this phrase at Circuit and District assemblies that I've attended to shore up the reasons why the information has changed over the years. This removes all kinds of psychological responsibility. Since no one claims responsibility as an author for the Watchtower articles, if they dumped the teaching, who would you claim to be responsible? You wouldn't say its God, because He's perfect and you can't blame the Governing Body because they "say" their imperfect slaves just like you, following Jehovah's will. So the change is simply just a correction in our thinking.
Another peg that'll keep a lot of people in is that Watchtower Organization will reference only what they've said to prove their point and then tell you what to specifically research. This creates a phantom "Ah ha! I see" moment for a lot of people. When they look into the older articles, they feel that they're doing DEEP meditative research and it lets them feel good that they're "discovering" this information on their own. So when they read it, its almost automatic that they'll find a justification for themselves for the dropping of 1914.
One other thing is the threat of "Not keeping pace with the Organization and Jehovah's chariot." This is a big one in my opinion, because this one is seemingly based on scripture, the vision of God's chariot that Ezekiel sees. This chariot, explained by the Watchtower organization, sees and changes directions quickly and easily. They have frequently asked the question, "Are you keeping pace with Jehovah's chariot?" , "How does being independent cause people to not keep pace?" and so on. The fear of being "left behind", not only in knowing whats going or or even fearing that being "left behind" might mean your death at Armageddon will keep a lot of people in the Organization.
There are a lot more pegs that keep people pinned into the Organization. So i dont think they'll be a mass exodus, they'll bleed a couple thousand people and families will split up. But all the Organization will have to do is relate it to a biblical incident and boom, those that left are now apostates ready for destruction and those that stay can smile tomorrow because they have a clean, dignified and closer position to Jehovah and salvation.
Thats my opinion
the one thing that got to me was that this religion is illogical.
their "logic" is ridiculous, especially when it comes to their blood doctrine.
downright weird!.
hmmm... its tough to know how to start this.
For me, its just the fundamentals that got me. It like modern day Judiasm, you have to accept the Rabbinic interpretation of the hebrew scriptures for everything else in the religion to make any sense. For instance, what is and is not considered work on holy rest days. Some Rabbi's interpret the law to such an extreme that even tearing tissues off the tissue roll is "work". Even turning on or off electric lighting can be an issue on these days.
The same goes for the witnesses, there's very little an average witness can say or preach about that wasn't initially interpreted by the people at the top in NY. You have to accept the "Governing Body's" interpretation of the bible for everything else to make sense. If for some reason you don't , then 90% of the religion falls to pieces in my view.
i have found some powerful reinforcements when people have stated their " epiphany moment "... please share some.. my turning pointing began when i was badly hurt by a person i had always viewed as a literal brother.
i realized that if his.
love was conditional.... if it was the case with him , then how about those i had less affection for and trust in ?.
It was a chilly sunday in January, prior to that I had been preaching pretty strongly for a little over a year trying to build up pioneer hours, but the months leading up to that sunday, I hadnt be preaching or coming to the meetings as much because of health issues that get worse in the winter and almost everyone in the hall said they knew and understood my issues, although they would always say I should still be present at the hall. It was that ONE chilly sunday... I was finally well enough to go to a meeting and an elder pulled me aside.
"You haven't been making the same progress as you've been over the past couple of months. Is there anything wrong?"
"Not anything unusual, just my skin issues and pain. But I'm sure things will get better in the spring. thats what I'm waiting for."
(I had a bible study during this time, and someone was subbing for me because I was sick)
"Well, your bible study has made fine progress. We hope you continue to make fine progress as well. We understand your health issues and how you like to associate with the friends at the hall. But if you don't have your spiritual program together and aren't making progress towards Ministerial servant or MTS school, you're just here 'hanging out' like the other ones that visit and dont get baptized for years."
I just remember feeling punched in the face; I managed to utter some kind of positive response that I will try harder. All those years of me trying to overcome my health issues to pioneer, to just show up at the hall, to encourage friends, or just make sure others were just "OK"... all that time and effort didn't matter. I, even though I was preaching as best as I could with my health being what it was and had a bible study, I still wasn't doing things to the "properly". Days after.... piece after piece after piece just clicked into place...till I just stopped going.
ahh low and behold!.
it turns out those bethelites were being bold!.
brazen is what many with login privileges can be called.... ....... knowing that such an important talk outline shouldn't be stalled!.
Anxiety may be caused by concerns over family, health, or finances Self-help guides may offer some good ideas, but they can also give harmful advice that leads to disappointment and serious problems.
This amazines me, that in one sentence about Self help guides, they offer the idea and then deprecate it immediately. So you'd automatically think that ALL self-help books or guides are going to make you worse and destroy your life. I can immediately see the audience nodding in agreement because they enjoy the fact that they have the FDS watching over every step they take and they are given what they need to think and do next.
What a difference a year makes.. if this was 2009 or early 2010 I would have been right there with the rest of them.
okay, before you fly off the handle--i wrote a blog on how my research proves jw's are a cult (no, i haven't read the cult book yet).
somebody linked their own findings onto my site saying the opposite.
their evidence is erroneous and as i don't have time to point this out i thought i would let you all do it for me.. www.epages.wordpress.com.
I must say, I do feel that the JW organization is still a mlm business... but doing some research does give me a bit more perspective on this.. and the organization does have cult tendencies. One of my favourite podcasts Howstuffworks.com had a podcast called "Who's the Leader" and it talks about dangerous cults... and wow.. the JW organization meets almost all of the requirements.
okay, before you fly off the handle--i wrote a blog on how my research proves jw's are a cult (no, i haven't read the cult book yet).
somebody linked their own findings onto my site saying the opposite.
their evidence is erroneous and as i don't have time to point this out i thought i would let you all do it for me.. www.epages.wordpress.com.
I, myself was part of the organization for 31 years, my father was an elder, my mom was a regular pioneer, and older brother is currently serving as elder and is also now being considered for a CO position. I've had one sibiling disassociate himself and another that just faded away before my own departure occured last year. I was bapitzed at 17 and pioneered in various capacities many times. So I've had quite a history with the JW organization. But I'm good, I'll leave you all to your opinions.
okay, before you fly off the handle--i wrote a blog on how my research proves jw's are a cult (no, i haven't read the cult book yet).
somebody linked their own findings onto my site saying the opposite.
their evidence is erroneous and as i don't have time to point this out i thought i would let you all do it for me.. www.epages.wordpress.com.
I have to agree with OnTheWayOut... because if you look at it, when Jesus first appeared and started preaching, the Jewish and Roman alike felt he was preaching radical concepts and was speaking blasphemy and starting a cult.
From what I've seen myself first hand and what's been written secularly about modern day religions, the JW organization doesn't seem to be a cult in my opinion. The JW's publish a magazine and openly talk about what they do and most of what they do is done in plain sight. So I try to skip calling them a cult because I personally don't think it fits that defintion.
To me, the JW's are a non-profit (legally anyway) publishing company, where direct voluntary recruitment is done to increase numbers (Research ACN's direct selling Multi-level Marketing if you want a 'FOR PROFIT' example). Instead of using a written contract, a verbal one is used with legal witnesses upon accepting membership and your baptism is visual acceptance of the contract. If you were from the outside and just heard about the JW organization, you could literally walk into a convention, sit and watch this process. The unfortunate part is the high level of corporate control and micro-management that exist from the top authority in NY, all the way down to the family level. Also, when there is a breach of the contract or there is a suspicion of such actions, the loss a member suffers isnt monetarily based. Aherence to the contract and the paradigm of the corporation is very strict (not very different from other commercial corporations)
This isn't a cult, but a well organized corporate entity that sells a spiritual concept based on Charles T. Russell's research.
i recall towards the end looking at the magazines and thinking " i can't offer that!
people will think we are nutcases!
" hahahaha more fool me!.
I always had a problem with going door to door with the magazines.
1st - because it was a lie, that you werent just going to talk about bible scripture, I was there to convert YOU.
2nd - the topics, the way the magazines approached the subjects never made sense to anyone but those who were JW's. People were always interested when I used ONLY the bible to talk about stuff, but they would have such puzzled looks when they would read the paragraphs from the watchtower or awake when it reasoned on something spiritual. Often I felt embarassed that I had to go and look in another magazine to explain the weird and slightly idiotic ideas that i had to preach about.
3rd - That it was actually reasoned that you had to wait till someone situation changed for the WORST, then you'd pounce on them with the watchtower and it was supposed to bring them happiness... I always felt really bad and ashamed for basically coming back again and again, knocking on people's door.. "Oh you lost your job? Oh here's a magazine on the 144,000 that are going to heaven, but you're and you JUST MIGHT be saved later on.... doesnt that make you feel better?"
