notverylikely

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Posts by notverylikely

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  404

  The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear ones.

  rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.

  a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.

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  notverylikely

  So the thing he believed on in faith was proven to be true. Just not in his day and age. But that doesn't make it any less true.

  Yes it does. If he decided to jump off a cliff he would go splat. 3000 years later it might be true, but at the time, it wasn't. It was entirely baseless faith. He had no math, no physics, no nothing on which to base his faith. Is that the kind of faith you are suggesting you have? Besides which, you can thing something MIGHT be possible without having faith in it :)

  What's the first test again?

  The whole idea of what's provable and what's not...

  Not really. Didn't the wright brothers believe they could fly? And didn't they set out proving that they could - because of their belief?

  Oh you. They worked out how birds could fly and tested it with scale models to see if it was doable and worked their way up. Based on the information and tests from the scale model, math and physics suggested it could be done and they set out to do it. They didn't just have faith and jump off a cliff in the first thing they built running on a faith engine. In fact, they built several tethered gliders models working out the physcis and aerodynamics.

  Oh, and quit confusing desire with faith. They wanted, desired to build and airplane. That is not the same as faith.

  But that faith, motivated by love, then motivates deeds to go along with that faith. So faith might not require deeds, but it does compel them. Faith first, then deeds. Just like the wright brothers.

  I don't think they were motivated by faith or love. However, their DESIRE (not faith) to build an airplane DID require doing something. Exactly the opposite of faith.

  This is true. We're amused at the ideas doctors had (if we even deign to call them doctors) for cures and healing and ailments. We are amused at ideas that women possessed the intelligence of a child. Etc.

  Woman, next time you have your menstrations you shall be unclean and unable to post for seven days! At least according to ancient medical wisdom :)
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  404

  The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear ones.

  rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.

  a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.

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  notverylikely

  Sorry, but I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place, dear NVL (peace to you!). If I tell you/others what I see and hear… but you can’t find it written in the Bible, then I’m making it up.

  Peace to you my dear Shelby!

  I am just asking which parts are inspired and right and which aren't. It just seems mildly suspiciuous that when you get backed into a corner on scripture you just happen to get insight on to what's right or not. I mean, YOU are the one picking which scriptures are real or not. Clue the rest of us in :)

  I disagree. It’s 100% true that man does not yet know HOW to fly. Doesn't mean he can't.

  Oh, BS, my dear. If I don't know how to make shakshuka, then I can't. I can learn how, but until I do, I can't. If you don't know how to snowboard, then you don't. You might be able to learn, but until then, you can't.

  See, you’re in error there, dear NVL… because like everyone else, you stop short. Faith… is the assured expectation of thing hoped for… the EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION OF REALITY.

  Oh, look who suddenly decided to use the WT translation. Let's continue that scripture....the evident demonstration of reality THOUGH NOT YET BEHELD. Look who stopped short this time, my dear :)

  Which is my point: if "science" can't prove it... it ain't so. Which ain't so.

  Sounds like a thing you a hoping for, a reality, though not yet beheld :)

  I don’t think you know what she means…

  Then that makes the three of us in this conversation.....
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  404

  The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear ones.

  rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.

  a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.

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  notverylikely

  Faith, perhaps, but the things that we believe in on faith - those are what Shelby is talking about.

  How are those things different? It seems like you're saying "I'm not talking abouta ham sandwich, I'm talking about bread, mayo, mustard, lettuce, tomato and ham all put together".

  They are only unprovable until they have been proven.

  Perhaps she (or you) should give examples that don't fail at the first test then :)

  Flying, for instance... the guy 3000 years ago could have all the faith he wanted, but if he jumped off a cliff he would fall and die despite all the faith in the world. Until someone did a lot of work and tests and proved it, the faith didn't mean anything. Faith is the opposite of doing something.

  Shelby is saying (I'm pretty sure) that these things will one day be proven true.

  Unlikely, to prove something requires evidence, testing, doing something. Faith requires nothing.

  Science is limited to our knowledge and capabilities at the time... and it is kind of arrogant to think that no one is ever going to come along and be amused at the scientific things we thought, same as we do about the round/flat earth...

  Oh, I never said we were at the pinnacle of human knowledge. But, using your example, we are amused at the things people thought and wrote down 2000 years ago.
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  34

  The Dublin "apostasy" after Ray Franz incident - searching for the audio testimony of John May

  by Nostromo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  google is not my friend anymore, it seems, i cant find a thing.. i was searching for the audio file where john may, the elder from dublin, tells his story when he traveled to brooklyn to find out the truth about the ray franz incident.

  i do not mean the talk of his that you can find on 4jehovah.org or 4witness.org, this was a different audio testimony where he just basically tells what happened to him and to his irish elder friend merriman when they wanted to discuss the rf issue with the gb.

  i had this file once but cant find it anymore.

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  notverylikely

  What a moron.
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  404

  The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear ones.

  rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.

  a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.

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  notverylikely

  I think you're supporting Shelby's point in the above post.

  Oh. Well if we are keeping it that simple, then faith and science are not opposites, per se, but faith falls outside the bounds of science simply because faith, particularly one in a deity, relies on untestable things. So, no, i am not supporting Shelby. She made a good try, but a swing and a miss.
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  153

  Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

  by Mattieu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

  http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

  now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

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  notverylikely

  Sigh....

  Mr A. paid taxes on his money. The 10 surplus dollar, francs, pesos, whatever, get put into the bank earning interes. He also pays taxes on the earned interest and then again when he spends it.

  Mr. B put his 10 in the collection plate. He already paid taxes on it but he then deducts it as a charitable contribution on his taxes so he gets his tax money back. The church, since they run soup kitchens, preach, feed and cloth the homeless, ALSO gets a tax deduction.

  Mr C. put his money in the KH contribution box. He also deducts it as a charitable contribution so in the end, ALSO doesn't pay taxes. If in France, the WT will pay taxes since the only thing they do is preach and that isn't counted as "charitable".
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  404

  The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear ones.

  rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.

  a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.

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  notverylikely

  As you wish.
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  120

  Evidence! How did you come to know reality?

  by zannahdoll in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it possible that when we (as a people) make an advancement in science and learn new facts that they sometimes disprove what was once considered fact?

  unless you test something for yourself you are taking the word of someone else.

  or do you trust that things are certain?

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  notverylikely

  Here kitty .... come out and play...
• 
  404

  The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear ones.

  rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.

  a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  notverylikely

  I mean, for example, a man of "science" believes man can fly (albeit, perhaps with the help some kind of apparatus); unfortunately, however, he lives about 3,000 (if not double/triple that) years before "science" can prove him right.

  No, Shelby. Not like that at ALL. At the time the man 3000 years ago believes that, it's 100% true that man cannot fly. Can you show an example of man that beleived to make it relevant in ANY way?

  Also, how can you say that science is NEVER going to support faith?

  Becase faith is being sure of what is hoped for and sure of what you cannot prove. Science rests on the ability to prove.

  I think you're proving Shelby's point in the above post.

  You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means :)
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  404

  The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear ones.

  rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.

  a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.

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  2. 
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  notverylikely

  Because... prior to conception there is no vessel of flesh... and so nothing to "lead" that person... to whatever course he ultimately chooses. No "skin" yet, that such one will perhaps do "ANYTHING"... give ALL... on behalf of. No "desire" of the flesh to be exploited... because no FLESH, yet.

  But he did in three cases, so clearly he can in some cases. And he knew what Jesus would do before before he was born before there was flesh. So clearly he CAN.

  NVL, you know full well that men were forced to marry women only after rape couldn't be proven. If it was proven, the man was to be put to death.

  Syl, I would LOVE to see that scripture.

  Sort of like science, right, dear Glad?

  No, the exact opposite of science.