And BTW, you don't like the WTS saying all other religions are going to be destroyed because it incites hatred for people of those religions. Well, the Catholic Church teaches that certain classes of people are going to burn in hell. That's arguably worse for inciting hatred since they are deserving of not just death, but eternal torment. So if I understand your rule correctly, the teachings of the Catholic Church would also be banned, at least in printed form. Not a big fan of the RCC, but just sayin..
Chaserious
JoinedPosts by Chaserious
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Watch Tower Publishing Literature To Incite Hatred Towards All Religions, All Earthly Government, And People Not Jehovah Witnesses
by frankiespeakin innow i know that there are some here that can supply plenty of documented proof as to the hatred inciting teachings of the past presidents and the now rulling governing body in the literature they export world wide.. any former member who has changed his mind and no longer excepts these hate inspireing teachings of the governing body is labeled "mentally diseased" meaning these people are to be avoided because they have a catchy mental malfunction that is deadly.. all governments are controlled by an invisible master mind who has only evil intentions and is leading the vast majority of the human race to thier destruction.
and thier followers are encouraged to hate what jehovah hates and jehovah hates all the governments of the earth includeing isreal and even the united nations of which they are members as an ngo.. in russia thier literature is rightly ban because it is reccognized as hatred inspireing.
(no shit sherlock!).
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Watch Tower Publishing Literature To Incite Hatred Towards All Religions, All Earthly Government, And People Not Jehovah Witnesses
by frankiespeakin innow i know that there are some here that can supply plenty of documented proof as to the hatred inciting teachings of the past presidents and the now rulling governing body in the literature they export world wide.. any former member who has changed his mind and no longer excepts these hate inspireing teachings of the governing body is labeled "mentally diseased" meaning these people are to be avoided because they have a catchy mental malfunction that is deadly.. all governments are controlled by an invisible master mind who has only evil intentions and is leading the vast majority of the human race to thier destruction.
and thier followers are encouraged to hate what jehovah hates and jehovah hates all the governments of the earth includeing isreal and even the united nations of which they are members as an ngo.. in russia thier literature is rightly ban because it is reccognized as hatred inspireing.
(no shit sherlock!).
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Chaserious
"The way I see it: freedom of the indiviual trumps the freedom of a tax evadeing corporation that calls itself a religion for tax purposes to lower operation cost and increase profitiblity.
If a religion is insighting hatred for others, it should be held to a high standard of truth,, if it uses lies and deception it should be made liable, freedom of religion should never be used as an excuse to say what ever you want and not be held liable for any slanderous lies and the damages these cause."
It seems to me that you are lumping together two important issues that deserve separate treatment. One is tax exempt status. That's a totally different issue, and I believe that some change in this area might be good, although that's up for debate. My personal take is that there should at least be some ability to impose property tax on religious property, for all religions. Otherwise, in effect the rest of us are subsidizing the churches, synogogues, etc. They get the same police and fire protection, garbage removal, and so on from local government, but don't pay any of the price.
The other is banning speech, and I will reiterate that I strongly believe this is an extremely dangerous game you want to play. Equating print with freedom of thought and expression is not a 21st century idea. The framers of the U.S. constitution knew they were both important expressions of thought and protected both speech and the press by the first amendment. I do not think you want the government reading everything that is printed by anyone to decide if it were "true" or not. Could any religion thus be banned, if they can't prove that "God" is real and true, as they might print in their literature? Could parents be prosecuted for telling their children there is a tooth fairy? After all, that isn't true, and arguably could cause damage when the kid finds out it's not. Besides, most of what I think you are upset about in the WTS literature is more of selective reporting and spinning the facts the way they want, leaving out the ones that don't make them look good. Of all people, I don't think politicians have room to go after that kind of practice.
Now, when you talk about "Slanderous Lies", these are in fact punishable under the present laws, at least in the U.S. In other words, if they print in the Watchtower that John Doe is a drunk who beats his wife, and none of this is true, John Doe can sue the Watchtower for libel and recover money, regardless of the freedom of religion mantle. If you are talking about lies as to doctrine... well that's why it's religious doctrine. It can't be proven, any more than the doctrine of any system of beliefs that tries to explain the supernatural. Put your hatred for the harm the WTS has caused to you aside for a moment, and ask whether you REALLY want government agents deciding if religious doctrine is "true" or not.
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Watch Tower Publishing Literature To Incite Hatred Towards All Religions, All Earthly Government, And People Not Jehovah Witnesses
by frankiespeakin innow i know that there are some here that can supply plenty of documented proof as to the hatred inciting teachings of the past presidents and the now rulling governing body in the literature they export world wide.. any former member who has changed his mind and no longer excepts these hate inspireing teachings of the governing body is labeled "mentally diseased" meaning these people are to be avoided because they have a catchy mental malfunction that is deadly.. all governments are controlled by an invisible master mind who has only evil intentions and is leading the vast majority of the human race to thier destruction.
and thier followers are encouraged to hate what jehovah hates and jehovah hates all the governments of the earth includeing isreal and even the united nations of which they are members as an ngo.. in russia thier literature is rightly ban because it is reccognized as hatred inspireing.
(no shit sherlock!).
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Chaserious
I totally agree with PTN. Frankie, you talked about enlightenment in your OP, and to me, enlightenment doesn't include banning religious literature based on the content. Banning thought based on content, which includes that thought expressed in print or the spoken word, is very scary to me. How do you know you aren't next if the government disapproves? You say it incites hatred for government. Who is to say my legitimate critisicm of the President or Prime Minister isn't the next to be labelled as "inciting hatred for government." Many religions believe theirs is the only true one. Why wouldn't they be the next to be "inciting hatred". The best way to combat ignorant and harmful ideas is with knowledge, thought and better ideas. Eventually, bad ideas lose in the marketplace of thought.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire
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France : no more local bank accounts for congregations
by fifth.column ini just joined a few days ago.
still in (physically, not mentally...) for family reasons... how many attendees at the kh in the same situation ?
currently living in france, wont say more on me for the moment.... .
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Chaserious
My guess is that this is a precaution due to law/politics in France, and not a pilot program. Unlike the U.S., U.K., and many other countries, religions have to be approved by the government, and they make government distinctions between religions and cults. They even have a parlimentary commission on Cults. By contrast, in the U.S. something that might be popularly considered a cult is due all of the free exercise protection of any religion. I am guessing that they are worried about assets being frozen or taxed in the event of a negative ruling or something similar. Note that he said global account. I'm guessing these are going to be held in some time of offshore account that the France branch has access to.
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Why are the Jehovah's Witnesses not allowed to carry a weapon (for protection) during field service?
by I_love_Jeff inif jesus allowed peter to carry a sword for protection, why are the jehovah's witnesses against carry a weapon during their "fun" door-to-door adventuring?
it seems jesus did not mind that peter carried a sword if we read luke 22:36-38. is it another case of picking and choosing what works for their man-made doctrine?.
is defending oneself a violent act, according to the jehovah's witnesses?
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Chaserious
There are a ton of reasons
A) It could lead to legal liability. People who go into bad neighborhoods for their employment are routinely told by their employers that they are not allowed to have a weapon while working. I have personal experience with that in a former job.
B) There are lots of scriptures that go the other way too and counsel toward nonviolence. There's a shocker - different people applying the bible in contradictory manners.
C) If you look at this objectively, it's not very appealing for someone to present themselves as a minister of any faith knowing they are packing.
I could probably go all the way to Z, this seems so obvious to me.
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List Of Names Of Legal Dept at Bethel?
by frankiespeakin init would be nice to know any info would be helpful..
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Chaserious
Do you mean a more recent list, or additional info about the people listed? It appears in addition to those listed above (not all of whom are apparently working for the WTS), the following people have NY law licenses and a Patterson Watchtower address:
Andrea Y. Wang
Ronald L. Slater
Keturah Alegra Dunne
Gregory D. Olds
Francis J. McNamara
I didn't copy all of their additional info, but it looks like the most recent to graduate law school is 2000, so they don't appear to be existing Bethelites who were put through law school recently by the WTS.
I also ran a search of all attorneys who were counsel to the WTS in cases where the WTS was a party with a written opinion since 2005. Note that this will not capture attorneys who do not litigate, such as those who exclusively handle real estate issues or estate matters. It also won't capture cases where the WTS was not actually a named party, such as the Menlo Park land case. In addition to the others in my post, these include:
Gregory Allen
Calvin Rouse
Nora Vargas-Acosta (Admitted in Puerto Rico; appears to possibly be an ACLU attorney)
J. Jerome Miller (NC)
Jack R. Reiter, Gregory A. Victor, and Natalie J. Carlos (FL)
Donald E. Gardner and Brian J.S. Cullen (NH)
Eileen Smith (TN)
Please note that I am expressing no opinion as to whether the attorneys named here are Jehovah's Witnesses or employed by the Watchtower organization. I am merely reporting that they have entered appearances on behalf of the Watchtower Society or appeared on a brief for the WTS.
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What being cheap costs us.. Fatal accident involving bus full of JWs
by pubtruth inthis happened about last week here in florida.
a bus carrying 32 jehovah's witnesses driven by a hired bus driver got lost on the way to west palm beach and crashed at the entrance of miami int'l airport.
dozens were injured and 2 passed away.
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Chaserious
No one's saying the WT is directly responsible. But yes, it was pointed out by the OP that they closed and sold a closer assembly hall. Had their greed for the bottom line not been so great, perhaps this tragedy would have been avoided.
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What being cheap costs us.. Fatal accident involving bus full of JWs
by pubtruth inthis happened about last week here in florida.
a bus carrying 32 jehovah's witnesses driven by a hired bus driver got lost on the way to west palm beach and crashed at the entrance of miami int'l airport.
dozens were injured and 2 passed away.
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Chaserious
Chaserious, that's their WHOLE APPROACH now, have you missed this? With all the "simplified" literature. Have you seen the "Listen to Gawd" brochure? Why are you even bringing this up?
The simplified literature is kind of a tangent here, but I brought it because I think it's irresponsible to blame the WTS for these people's deaths. If my dog happens to choke on something and dies while I was at a meeting, I think half of this board would immediately call the WTS dog-killers because if I was home I could have taken him to the vet right away. Shit happens.
On the literature point, even as someone who hasn't been to a meeting for 3 years I immediately know what is being conveyed in that picture, and that no witness would reasonably interpret it as meaning you can't get into an accident. I must have heard time and unforeseen occurrence a million times. Unless they stopped using that, no one thinks they can't get into an accident.
in all seriousness this is not a tragedy.
Can you please explain? Does this mean the world is better off because we have two less JWs? Sure hope not...
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What being cheap costs us.. Fatal accident involving bus full of JWs
by pubtruth inthis happened about last week here in florida.
a bus carrying 32 jehovah's witnesses driven by a hired bus driver got lost on the way to west palm beach and crashed at the entrance of miami int'l airport.
dozens were injured and 2 passed away.
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Chaserious
"To me they are sending mixed messages when they say the words shown in Blondies comment above but then print pictures like this that are meant to give you the opposite impression. ..."
That is exactly the manipulation technique that they used leading up to the "1975" fiasco.
If anyone over the age of 6 interprets theology not from the words on the page but from a picture with fire breathing dragons and musclebound bearded dudes in the clouds, they are to blame and not the WTS. I'm not implying that the people on the bus are to blame - because I am questioning the implication that they felt invinicible. As Blondie pointed out, the literature clearly says otherwise. In 25 years growing up as a witness, I never heard anyone hint that they could not be killed in an accident while doing "Jehovah's will".
Although I will say, they do exploit examples when they go the other way, which is not being honest, like "one brother related that had he gone on a business trip for his employer instead of attending the District Convention, he would have been on the plane that crashed, killing all on board."
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What being cheap costs us.. Fatal accident involving bus full of JWs
by pubtruth inthis happened about last week here in florida.
a bus carrying 32 jehovah's witnesses driven by a hired bus driver got lost on the way to west palm beach and crashed at the entrance of miami int'l airport.
dozens were injured and 2 passed away.
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Chaserious
When people jump on a thread like this and blame the WTS for this tragedy, that is what makes ex-JWs look like bitter angry opposers with an axe to grind. Why not have a little more compassion for these victims and their families?
Had they not avoided college educations due to the Watchtower Society's false predictions of "Armageddon", they would probably have made enough money thru their lives so that they could have traveled in safer transportation
Come on, did you not see the video? Most of the people on the bus can't even speak english. It's highly unlikely that they would all be rich aerospace engineers if not for the WTS.
It is very sad news, especially with everyone so tight on money and so brainwashed, that they look for whatever they can to make "Jehovah" happy
People travel on cheap buses all the time - college kids, city dwellers with no car going home to visit family, immigrants, etc. I'm sure most of the people didn't get on the bus with some kind of resentful attitude.
Where were the angels that are supposed to protect those doing Jehovah's will?
You know they don't teach that and no JWs really think they are immune from auto accidents while travelling for "theocratic" purposes.
