All downhill from here. Predicting this thread only gets 3 pages of comments, not the heady 7 or 8 you have gotten used to.
Chaserious
JoinedPosts by Chaserious
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44
BADGES COMING TO LOCAL KINGDOM HALLS, FINALLY RESPECT I DESERVE!
by AuntConnie inbadges are coming to distinguish real christian effort!
1. badges: i want my badge to be different from the other brothers and sisters badges coming!
the society has realized they can't live without us and now they are giving us a little something extra ,it's going to be a blast!
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Landlord business
by hoser inonce you spend your property it is spent forever.
this is what the wts is doing by selling out of brooklyn.
would it not make a lot more financial sense to become landlords in one of the hottest rental markets in the world?.
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Chaserious
If it would be like that for worldly tenants, imagine what it would be for witlesses.
By all accounts they were good landlords to the "worldly" tenants in the Bossert hotel. Didn't preach to them, let them put up holiday decorations on their apartments doors, maintained it well, etc. Probably not looking for any more bad PR in Brooklyn.
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Donation sent too Watch Tower Society but never goes out.
by jam ina few questions concerning wt accounts.. 1) who have control over the wt funds?.
2) if one of the gb members for example , schedule to.
give a talk in a foreign country, who determine how much money.
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Chaserious
I don't know the answer to these, and I hope to check back and see if anyone does. But I lol'd at this one:
Any outside agency have oversight of WT holdings?
Can't imagine this. They love their secrecy. Also, I imagine that even if someone other than the GB has to approve the checks, (and I would think this is the case ever since the change where the GB are no longer corporate officers) the culture is not one where anyone feels free to say 'no' to the GB. Other than the lawyers. They probably would say no if it's something that could cause a legal problem.
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My Mother Passed
by Roberta804 inthank you for all of your support durning the two difficult weeks my mother was on her death bed.
last night at 10:30pm she breath her last with my sister and i by her side.
this is a real end of an era for me as i have known little these past 8 years other than taking care of my parents.
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Chaserious
So sorry to hear about this. It's good that her daughters were by her side. All the best as your family copes with the loss.
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Would this work? Be honest. Brutal if necessary.
by okage ini feel i must preface this with context so as to make the intention understandable: .
to jehovah's witnesses and their apologists, that goal is destruction of truth and the downfall of jehovah's witnesses.
but that's not our goal.
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Chaserious
Are there not class actions against the RC church because of molestations etc., on the grounds of emotional harm done the victims?
Yes, but they are all for the same type of harm (sexual abuse), not various practices that people disagree with. Further, sexual abuse is obviously a tort with recognized damages remedies. Sexual abuse is not part of the theology of any established religion, unlike shunning. Even if you want to limit your hypothetical lawsuit to shunning victims, shunning is legal and sexual abuse is not. It's pretty simple.
the harm is not caused by doctrine
Of course the harm is caused by the doctrine. Strictly enforcing the policy (or coercion, as you call it) is all part of the doctrine, whether you agree with the doctrine or not. Personally I think the shunning policy is disgusting, but you even used the term "loved ones" in your response. Do you really think the government should be telling people who they have to love and be close with? I don't, although you are free to disagree.
thousands of people have already suffered harm from the WT's intentional interference in their familial love
You need more than just harm to have a case. If someone walks past you on the street and mockingly calls you ugly, you might suffer emotional harm, but you have no legal cause of action. If a man seduces a married woman and causes her to leave her family for him, the family certainly suffers harm, but there is no legal recourse against the seducer in almost every jurisdiction. And these are examples that don't even have the additional obstacle of freedom of religion to overcome.
Please , somebody tell me this isn't so!
It would be nice if it wasn't so, but not only is this the law, but here is an example of it actually happening within the past year:
Since you said you are interested in what Band on the Run thinks, she has posted in other threads not only only that shunning is protected conduct, but that she agrees with the right to associate with whoever you want. You can probably find such comments with a search. I know you have good intentions. Not trying to give you a hard time, gone for good. Just observing that the way to fight the WTS is not with shunning lawsuits. At least not in the foreseeable future.
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Would this work? Be honest. Brutal if necessary.
by okage ini feel i must preface this with context so as to make the intention understandable: .
to jehovah's witnesses and their apologists, that goal is destruction of truth and the downfall of jehovah's witnesses.
but that's not our goal.
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Chaserious
"Chaserious - Why do you think we who are DFd are powerless? We, ALL of the DFd, and all those who have EVER been DAd - are the very people, the living witnesses who can prove that, the WTS does indeed incite ALL their members, including our own close family members to discriminate, without known cause, against us. WE the DF'd and DA'd are also the living witnesses and proof of the mental and psycological damage that is unavoidable under the WTs extreme, coercive, systematic, alienation . I would imagine thousands, would happily volunteer to testify to these as legal claims if given a chance. Hopefully, Band On The Run, or some other legal eagles will join in here."
I don't think we are powerless. Numerous websites have been started with large followings that expose the WTS for what they really are. But from a legal standpoint there is absolutely no grounds for suing the Watchtower because of DF/DA. Every week someone posts a thread saying there should be a class action lawsuit for all of the evil the WTS has done. Do you know why it hasn't happened? Because it would be an enormous failure. If anyone has individually been harmed by the WTS to the extent that the law recognizes a remedy, or a plausible argument can be made that the law should recognize a remedy, then by all means they should bring a lawsuit. I hope every pedophilia victim does bring a lawsuit against the WTS. But there is no such thing as a giant class action against a Church for all different kinds of emotional harm. You cannot sue churches for matters relating to core religous doctrines that you don't like.
You keep bringing up Rosa Parks. Rosa Parks took action against a government policy. The WTBTS is not the government. If the WTBTS, or the Podunkville First Church of Christ or any other church wanted to discriminate on the basis of race due to their religious beliefs, like say refusing to allow black couples to have a wedding ceremony in the church, guess what? They could do it right now, in 2013, and they could not be sued.
ETA: Think of it this way. We know that gender is a protected status in the Western world. The government could not force women to sit in the back of the bus any more than they could force minorities to do so. But it's not protected within churches. Imagine if all of the women who felt it was their life's purpose to be Catholic Priests decided to bring a class action against the Catholic Church for denying them their life's calling by not allowing women priests. Everyone knows the courts are not going to recognize such a claim. You are suggesting basically the same thing, except an even weaker claim, because at least women are part of a protected class under the law. People who leave or are kicked out of various religions are not a protected class at all; or what in the U.S. the courts call "discrete and insular" groups that need protection.
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Landlord business
by hoser inonce you spend your property it is spent forever.
this is what the wts is doing by selling out of brooklyn.
would it not make a lot more financial sense to become landlords in one of the hottest rental markets in the world?.
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Chaserious
They don't have the skills to be landlords. They probably figure they can do better taking the money today and investing it. Who knows if they are good investors or not, but usually people who are terrible investors think they are good investors anyway. I'm sure they would have to hire outside attorneys, real estate agents, and other professionals to develop and lease large residential apartment buildings. They also might have to file some tax documents. Probably too much outside entanglement for their liking.
Besides, apartment buildings can be seized to satisfy judicial liens - the kind that arise when you lose lawsuits. Liquid capital invested and stashed away in offshore accounts is much more safe.
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Anonymous v. Silentlambs... things are starting to get ugly
by cedars inbowen fights back.... .
http://www.silentlambs.org/trustsilentlambs.htm.
cedars.
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Chaserious
I bet the WTBTS is behind this "Anonymous".
No way. You do realize this is the organization "Anonymous" and not an "anonymous" allegation, don't you? In the same post where they are critical of Silent Lambs, they also post some documents casting the WTS in a bad light, including some from the Menlo Park lawsuits, along with a bit of critical commentary.
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Menlo Park Legal Advisor Tells All
by Juan Viejo2 insomeone sent me a link to the anoninsurrection youtube page.
i found eleven videos documenting an interview with the legal advisor for the former menlo park kingdom hall elders.
you can find them here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plszmu_qv0dgtco2wl5bnjdx12ny2_cmoo .. i've also published the entire set of eleven along with my comments on ex-jw.com.
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Chaserious
DF: That is a sad situation about the elder's wife doing those things to him, and the alleged ID theft not being able to get heard.
There are a number of legitimate reasons for an opinion to be dated while a judge is on vacation. Is there any other evidence?
Also, if you think the opinion was forged, why not bring it up to the court or go see an attorney? If true, this would literally be one of the biggest legal scandals of the year and be covered in lots of national legal publications. They could probably find some attorney who would look into it for free for the publicity if there is actual evidence.
You got me curious so I checked out the federal case. It appears that the dismissal order was dated 1/6/12, and then a motion for reconsideration was filed and was denied by the same judge on 1/20/12. Why would the judge deny reconsideration if she never wrote the opinion in the first place? Do you think any federal judge would take lightly someone else writing an opinion for her without her knowledge and signing it for her?
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Would this work? Be honest. Brutal if necessary.
by okage ini feel i must preface this with context so as to make the intention understandable: .
to jehovah's witnesses and their apologists, that goal is destruction of truth and the downfall of jehovah's witnesses.
but that's not our goal.
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Chaserious
the membership of jwn alone can stall their growth for a week. i imagine the could inspire the half that doesnt agree during the initial event.
Well, part of the point of my earlier post was that it wouldn't stall the growth because any faders/inactive are not counted in the publisher figures anyway. And I don't think the problem is that the other half (or whatever percent) "doesn't agree." The issue is that they have probably decided not to formally leave for practical reasons, such as employment/family.
Gone for good: I'm all for raising awareness of the damage that the WTS causes to members, former members and their families. I didn't acknowledge that we could easily round up thousands, though. I was just making what I think is a very generous assumption for arguments' sake. If I wasn't already DF'd, I would do it though. If by class action, you mean a lawsuit, that isn't happening anytime soon. You can shun anyone you want. Nice or not, it's perfectly legal.