It doesn't matter. If they will believe the current generation BS they will believe whatever new nonsense the WTS comes up with in 2034. I mean come on, by this logic my grandfather who is 95, is part of the U.S. Civil War generation because when he was a little boy there were still people alive who were soldiers in the civil war. I think by 2034 the publisher counts will have declined in currently developed countries and will have shifted to places where they are still growing now like subsaharan Africa and South America. I guess they can hope that if those countries are more prosperous in 20 years they can financially support the Borg and supplant the support they'll continue to lose in North America and Europe.
Chaserious
JoinedPosts by Chaserious
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Will the year 2034 be the end? Is the WT seeing a glimpse of "NEW LIGHT"?
by suavojr incedar mentioned this on another thread talking about 2014 and the wt.
ray also mentioned how easily it would be for the wt to apply the 1 day for a year rule and make 2034 a special year.. .
they already have a contingency plan enshrined in their literature that will see them through to 2034.. http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/2034.html.
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Governing Body's Lawyers Unconsciously Driven To Giving Destructive Advice To The Corporation's CEO
by frankiespeakin inconcider:.
they very well could have a repressed loathing for the watchtower and for what it is doing to young children(pedofile and blood issues), families, the old, and even themselves, but because of situation they are in they are forced to suppress it all in the shadow.. so the unconscious(or substitute god for the word unconscious because the unconscious is a far bigger player than ego consciousness), so then the unconscious which according to evolution favors survival and survival of the species is favored even higher i would think, so that at times the unconscious may make a move that trumps ego drives and may lead to an action that puts the "individual" in harms way(kills) but it does so for the good of the larger whole or the "species".
kinda like the mythological one man dying for the whole species of mankind, one example in mythology is jesus christ, among others.. these myths explain many things about what goes on inside a man imo.. more next post.
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Chaserious
"Chas,
Sounds like a good guess. Do you think a personality clash with the new GB members and the older legal team could also come into play as a to giving bad advice that appears to be good, playing on the vanity and delusions of the Governing Body"
My own opinion would be that the legal team would not intentionally give bad advice for two reasons:
1) It's not in lawyers' nature to give their own clients bad advice. Usually if there was some kind of schism they would terminate the representation before doing that, although that is difficult as an in-house Watchtower lawyer. It also could be grounds for losing one's law license, although it might be hard to prove in a lot of cases. If it was done in connection with a public matter like a case it could also look bad if that lawyer were to be looking for another job.
2) Why would they bite the hand that feeds them? These lawyers are WTS heavies and probably enjoy the prestige associated with that. And to be honest if all they have done their entire legal career is WTS work, such as in the case of the ones the WTS put through law school, despite the law degree they are probably going to have difficulty finding work elsewhere if they leave the organization, and it's doubtful many have the capital to start up their own practice. There is a limited market for lawyers who can defend shunning and church pedophile lawsuits. Real estate contracts and knowlege of NYC law therein is useful, but that is mostly handled by big firms that want lawyers with a pedigree.
Now as to whether they would uninentionally give bad advice, as I said earlier I doubt it -- but maybe that's a question for a psychologist to answer.
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List Of Names Of Legal Dept at Bethel?
by frankiespeakin init would be nice to know any info would be helpful..
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Chaserious
It's a mystery how and why very educated people in law or medicine continue to support Watchtower. I personally knew a dr. at the farm and also a lawyer that gave up a good practice, moved to Patterson to work exclusively for Wat. Both of these guys very well respected in their fields. How can these educated men support an organization that is so anti-education and inventing doctrine just to cover past failings? Why would they continue to allow a group of self-appointed company men dictate what they should believe? Guess it shows anyone can be duped, just as we were, but that is not a satisfying answer. Hudson Valley NY
There is always some element of intellectual high achievers who are susceptible to odd beliefs. Years ago, the WTS used to quote oddball doctors in their literature who had off-the-wall medical theories. For God's sake, the man who just almost became President of the United States (who has a law degree and an MBA, by the way, and I think no one would suggest is dumb), has a set of beliefs that in my opinion are marginally better if at all, in terms of weird doctrine and organizational control. Not trying to change the topic, but sure they aren't anti-education and don't have the blood hangup, but when you factor in that they flat out demand 10% of your money, wear magic undergarments, and believe Jesus is setting up his second coming in Missouri, they come out about equal in my book.
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Governing Body's Lawyers Unconsciously Driven To Giving Destructive Advice To The Corporation's CEO
by frankiespeakin inconcider:.
they very well could have a repressed loathing for the watchtower and for what it is doing to young children(pedofile and blood issues), families, the old, and even themselves, but because of situation they are in they are forced to suppress it all in the shadow.. so the unconscious(or substitute god for the word unconscious because the unconscious is a far bigger player than ego consciousness), so then the unconscious which according to evolution favors survival and survival of the species is favored even higher i would think, so that at times the unconscious may make a move that trumps ego drives and may lead to an action that puts the "individual" in harms way(kills) but it does so for the good of the larger whole or the "species".
kinda like the mythological one man dying for the whole species of mankind, one example in mythology is jesus christ, among others.. these myths explain many things about what goes on inside a man imo.. more next post.
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Chaserious
"I'm thinking did legal give advice to the GB about calling them first before going to the police in a child molesting case?
Did Legal advise them in the content of the secret letter to the Elder bodies?"
There is no way to know this unless someone involved is willing to tell. But my guess would be that in the 1980's/early 90's (which is the time period at issue in recent litigation) they didn't give legal advice on what to put in the literature or in letters sent to elders because molestation cases weren't a big thing yet. Now, you can bet your ass they get legal advice. I'm sure that whatever policies are currently in place makes the WTS absolutely bulletproof for any molestation that happens now going forward. You would probably have to be molested by a CO/DO/GB member at this point to be able to squeeze any money out of the WTS.
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Conti v Watchtower - November 26 court documents in pdf
by jwleaks injw leaks has published the latest court documents, in pdf, relating to "candace conti vs the watchtower bible and tract society of new york" as certified on november 26, 2012.. .
clerk's notice re certification of record on appeal to the court of appeals.. .
jw leaks.
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Chaserious
So what is the next step? and how soon?
I'm not sure if this has been answered elsewhere, but I wasn't able to find it with a quick search, so I checked the docket. So, the appellant's (WTS) brief is due on 1/7/13. Typically, litigants file the brief within a day or so of when they are due and not earlier. Once they file, the appellee (Conti) gets 30 days to file her brief. So we can assume Conti's brief will be due around 2/7/13. Then, the WTS will have 20 days to file what's called a reply brief, at which time briefing is closed. So we should expect that briefing will be closed around the end of February, after which a date will be set for oral agruments. Note that this is not foolproof, however. Sometimes extensions are granted on these deadlines.
Typically, oral arguments will be scheduled anywhere from 3-6 months after the case is fully briefed. So, assuming no extentions, we should expect that oral arguments will occur either June or September-October, 2013. (The judges usually don't hear oral arguments in July-August; they catch up on writing their opinions, and take vacations). Oral arguments generally last only 15-30 minutes, and consist only of one attorney form each side engaging in dialogue with the panel of three appeals judges. In my experience, oral argument is actually not that important, and it is very common for all three judges to have decided how they are going to vote even before oral argument. The briefs are the most important part here. The judges will not announce a decision on the day of oral argument. After oral argument, the court has 90 days to release its opinion, although unlike the parties, the judges don't usually wait until the last day - the opinion could be released anytime from a week or two after oral argument on. I hope this helps anyone interested in following the appeal process.
This is all incredibly important - I don't think the appeal is by any means a slam dunk for either side, although they will both act tough in any public statements as if it were. Also, this may be the last word on the case. As with the U.S. Supreme Court, the California Supreme Court, which would be the next step in the appeal process, has discretion to decide which cases it hears. So, although the loser from the appeals court will almost certainly file an appeal petition to the California Supreme Court, it can decline to hear the case without giving any reason whatsoever, meaning whatever the appeals panel decides is final.
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Governing Body's Lawyers Unconsciously Driven To Giving Destructive Advice To The Corporation's CEO
by frankiespeakin inconcider:.
they very well could have a repressed loathing for the watchtower and for what it is doing to young children(pedofile and blood issues), families, the old, and even themselves, but because of situation they are in they are forced to suppress it all in the shadow.. so the unconscious(or substitute god for the word unconscious because the unconscious is a far bigger player than ego consciousness), so then the unconscious which according to evolution favors survival and survival of the species is favored even higher i would think, so that at times the unconscious may make a move that trumps ego drives and may lead to an action that puts the "individual" in harms way(kills) but it does so for the good of the larger whole or the "species".
kinda like the mythological one man dying for the whole species of mankind, one example in mythology is jesus christ, among others.. these myths explain many things about what goes on inside a man imo.. more next post.
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Chaserious
I think the legal advise has been good so far, but the tide is changing. Juries/judges/people are fet up with legal loopholes and are making decisions accordingly. The WTS Legal NEVER expected the Conti case to go against them siince the perp was not and Elder or MS or Pioneer. HOW could they hold the Organization responsible. Everyone is tired of the legal manipulating regarding child abuse. AND, enough people have been affected, either directly or via a loved one, and thus there is the inclination to "set matters straight". The Conti decision was a real WAKE UP CALL for the WTS. Unfortunately for them, there are 100s more waiting in the wings.
JMHO
Doc
I hope it was a wake up call, but to be honest I think the Conti verdict is going to get overturned on appeal and she is going to walk away with nothing, or at least nothing from the WTS. They didn't expect the case to go against them because this kind of case never gets decided against the religious organization. If as a lawyer, you give your client advice to try the case instead of settling (and as I understand it, Conti didn't want to settle anyway, so really the lawyers had no choice but to go to trial) because there is a 99% chance of winning and a 1% chance of losing, and you are the 1% that loses, it doesn't mean you gave you client bad advice. The real cost is the bad publicity, not the $28 Mil, since I don't think they are going to end up paying it, and even if they do it's a drop in the bucket compared to all the real estate they're liquidating.
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Chaserious
Cool. I bet he didn't know this letter would lead all the way to the Supreme Court when he wrote it.
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Governing Body's Lawyers Unconsciously Driven To Giving Destructive Advice To The Corporation's CEO
by frankiespeakin inconcider:.
they very well could have a repressed loathing for the watchtower and for what it is doing to young children(pedofile and blood issues), families, the old, and even themselves, but because of situation they are in they are forced to suppress it all in the shadow.. so the unconscious(or substitute god for the word unconscious because the unconscious is a far bigger player than ego consciousness), so then the unconscious which according to evolution favors survival and survival of the species is favored even higher i would think, so that at times the unconscious may make a move that trumps ego drives and may lead to an action that puts the "individual" in harms way(kills) but it does so for the good of the larger whole or the "species".
kinda like the mythological one man dying for the whole species of mankind, one example in mythology is jesus christ, among others.. these myths explain many things about what goes on inside a man imo.. more next post.
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Chaserious
Yeah... I don't think this is going to happen. People become lawyers because they are good at disassociating this stuff and zealously representing their clients. And if they aren't, they learn it, or they are forced out of being in that kind of situation. Do criminal defense lawyers who know their client committed the crime unconsciously give their clients bad advice so they end up getting convicted, since it's for the "greater good" to have that person in jail? Doubt it.
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WHY is Jehovah so broke with all this cash flow??? Millions in real estate profits....where is the money???
by Balaamsass ina witness to the future as watchtower buys land upstate.
by evan gardner the brooklyn paper.
the brooklyn paper / gregory p. mango.
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Chaserious
They are still asking for money because just like any other business, future viability comes from regular income and cash flow, not sitting on stockpiles of assets or cash. They know how to run a business and if contributions are down, they are sure as hell going to try to get them back up, billions in assets or not.
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Was There Ever A Circuit Overseer That You Couldn't Stand?
by minimus ini know this has been discussed before but i think a fresh thread on this will be enjoyable.
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Chaserious
Present Truth - I really was pretty sure they were older than that. I was in a congregation with his son as recently as 5 years ago, and the son was in his 70's then. Maybe I have the ages mixed up somehow... if so, sorry about that.