Posts by C0ntr013r

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

C0ntr013r

It certainly does a much better job explaining the weirder shit found in nature...

You never bought the: "God has humor" argument?

26

Old, Faithful and Forgotten...

by rrb2016 in

had a conversation with my jw mother the other day.

she has been baptized for over 50 years.

i've been out for 30 years, but because both my mother and mother-in-law are jw's i keep up with all things jw.

C0ntr013r

Wonder if that was the condition apple had to give the GB gold apple watches xD

"Force your members to buy tablets and we will sponsor you with our most expensive 17 000 dollar watches" :P

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

C0ntr013r

Thanks millie210! :)

I hope it helps someone, it took a while to write :P

The tools that helps you get to the conclusion is much more important than the conclusion itself. Because the tools can be used to form a different opinion if the premises change(or your understanding of them).

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

C0ntr013r

Former Brother,

I commend you for having the courage and curiosity to examine your believes and biases, which we all should be doing. The people on here has a vast cumulative knowledge base and can help in many ways. But it is not the substitute for research, you have to do the studying and thinking yourself. We can point you in the right direction but you have to find the answers yourself.

"you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink"

Is evolution a viable option to creationism?

This topic is a very big one which requires a lot of research before you get a good feel for it. That is partly because it involves many areas; genetics, biology, paleontology, etc. There are many good books to get you started. Remember, you need both sides of an issue to get an objective view of it. You have heard the creationist arguments and sadly sometimes their misrepresentation of the opposing view("evolution is just random chance" is a common one). Maybe you should look into why it is taught as science in schools, is it; "just a theory" as creationists would have you believe, or is there something to it? Is it "just" a huge conspiracy?

I can share one thing to get you going; the predictions the theory of evolution can make is used to make medicines. (The "success" of a theory is determent by its predictive powers; if the predictions fail, the theory is scrapped. Evolution is taught as science in schools because it works, much like many other successful theories)

Is the bible Gods word?

Another equally challenging question.

For me; my inability to prove that it is, is a huge factor. But everyone is different.

Here as well I would advice you to look at the other side to get some perspective on the issue. You have heard all the reasons why the bible must be from God. Now you need to look up all the reasons others say it is not. Only then will you be able to make a informed decision about what to believe. And reading the watchtower publications regarding those arguments does not count! They are misleading at best, and I understand why... They are teaching something controversial, why would they want to tell their "followers" the best arguments against their own doctrine.

Does God exist?

You have to do the same thing here, just like with the previous question.

By their fruits you shall know them...

This one is interesting because of how it contradicts itself.

Look at the catholic church and all their pedophiles, this is proof that God is not with them!

Look at the JWs, they have a universal love for each other, this is proof that God is with them!

Look at the JWs and all the problems they have had with pedophiles that have submerged in recent times; God is using imperfect men and there will always be bad people, even inside Gods org.

Look at all the good the catholic church have done with their charitable works, the Devil is turning himself into a angle of light...

No matter which way you turn it, this will always be highly subjective. And it will play right into your own confirmation bias.

The light will get brighter...

Others have pointed this out but I will say it again, there is nothing in the context of this proverb that indicates that it is anything but a proverb. No mention of prophesy or anything. You may of course believe that it is one but many of us here do not.

But what you need more than answers to these questions is the ability to get them!

First of: You need to get rid of your biases and prejudices, you have to reevaluate everything you have been taught. Scary, I know! But it will be worth it, maybe you will conclude that you where correct all along.. It would still be worth it, because this time you examined both sides in a objective way to find out what you want to believe. You have to give both sides of every argument a fair chance, no matter how biased you feel.

Second: You need to learn, critical thinking skills, how to use proper logic and what fallacies to avoid, skepticism. How cognitive dissonance works and how confirmation bias works etc. I am not trying to insult you in any way, these skills are generally not learned unless studied. And I doubt any JW have a good understanding of them without realizing something is off... There is much loaded language, fallacious logic and logical fallacies in the publications. And critical thinking does not go well with publications which lack almost any references at all, this applies to all kinds of statements, supposed quotes and flat out exaggerations. How do you back up the statement:

"The moral confusion in the world has left its mark, especially among the impressionable youth."

A critical approach would be:

How do they know there is moral confusion in the world? How did it leave a mark? Are the premises even true? Why is the youth more confused then the others? And how do they know this?

And there are never any source for these kind of statements in the JWs publications(I have yet to find any at least)...

I remember writing a paper at university when I first got there, thinking this was an acceptable way of writing.. I was told that you can not state something like this without referencing a study to back up the claim, unless I made it into my personal opinion instead.

And watchtower does this all the time, mixing factual claims with opinions from their own doctrinal worldview. Wanting the facts to bend as to fit their agenda.

I think I have ranted long enough :P

Regardless to say; learning critical, logical thinking is a real eye opener!

It is not easy, but there are no shortcuts if you want to build you believes on a stable foundation ;)

Good luck in your search for "Truth"! :)

175

How confident are you about various so called facts?

by slimboyfat in

no facts about the world are absolutely certain.

that being the case i wonder how others would rank amd rate their confidence in various factual statements about the world.

i am going to rate my confidence in ten items of "knowledge" as a percentage.

C0ntr013r

To me it looks like you use the same words but mean different things.

Unless you agree on the definition of: "sure/certainty" you cant discuss it.. At least not in any meaningful way.

Also, some people can have 0%/100% confidence in something. Others cant because they always take the possibility that they are wrong into the equation(no matter how small).

So to state that is it wrong to asses 100% certainty is incorrect, if it is a measure of perceived certainly and not probability. (why it is so important to define what the words mean in the context)

But it is also incorrect to say that you can have 100% confidence in something, since some people cant.

It is two fundamentally different perspectives.

This is my take on it anyhow.

175

How confident are you about various so called facts?

by slimboyfat in

no facts about the world are absolutely certain.

that being the case i wonder how others would rank amd rate their confidence in various factual statements about the world.

i am going to rate my confidence in ten items of "knowledge" as a percentage.

C0ntr013r

I don't believe in certainty...

1. The earth is a sphere rather than flat in shape.

99%

2. Global warming is a real phenomenon of serious concern that is caused by human activities.

50%

3. Life on Earth evolved its many forms through the process of natural selection.

90%

4. The gospels are based on a real apocalyptic preacher called Jesus who lived in first century Palestine.

70%

5. J F Rutherford was a drunk who cheated on his wife with various women.

40%

6. Smoking causes lung cancer.

95%

7. Men really walked on the moon.

90%

8. Consciousness survives death.

1%

9. Moses wrote the Pentateuch.

10%

10. Dragons exists.

1%

11. Homeopathy is effective beyond placebo.

3%

12. O J Simpson was innocent.

-%

13. Scotland will be an independent country within 20 years.

10%

14. There will be a nuclear war sometime in the 21st century.

30%

15. The New Testament originally contained the divine name.

50%

16. At least one of the presidents of the Watchtower was homosexual.

30%

17. The universe began in a Big Bang around 14 billion years ago.

90%

18. China is the country with the most people.

95%

50

My family has known I'm an apostate

by cognac in

jw
friends

i found out that my husband has not only gone to the elders, but has been going to members of my family about me over a period of a few years.

this piece of news is just so depressing.

i've been wondering how my family knew i didn't go and thats why so many of them have becoming more and more distant.

C0ntr013r

How ironic that the Jws say a marriage can't be fully functional without "a third party"; Jehovah(aka: JW.ORG)...

They say it is needed for a truly strong and happy marriage. It is why so many marriages in the world don't last...

(that is not true either, Jws divorce rates are just as high as any other denomination)

166

Mobile Hotspot - JWFACTS.COM - Assembly & Conventions

by thedepressedsoul in

here is an idea i tested.

works at both assemblies and conventions.

i have noticed at the last convention and at my last assembly that when i opened up my wifi setting, tons of hotspots came up for people tethering their tablets to their smart phones.

C0ntr013r

I like the idea!

Would be interesting to monitor the activity and see what things the Jws read on the "apostate" sites.

Apostate meeting in bathroom 1pm xD hilarious!

It might result in a bunch of elders going there and looking suspiciously at each other :P

The servants at "my" convention use what's app to communicate, so they will probably find out about these things fast.

72

Have you heard the one about "Back to the Future" Predicting 911??

by EndofMysteries in

when somebody posted this on fb, i was anxious to see how ridiculous it would be, probably worse then the gb prophecies, etc.

after watching the clip, i honestly don't know what to believe.

at the very least it's very entertaining and interesting.

C0ntr013r

I think this is a good example of deliberate data mining/lottery fallacy/cherry picking fallacy...

In a large set of data you can easily pick individual details to prove a certain point.

To be able to "foretell" 9/11 with the sample size of one movie is not likely, but if you look at all movies as a collective... The chance of finding one movie with all these connections is much higher.

Lottery Fallacy
The lottery fallacy is a misuse of statisics that generally argues that a particular phenomenon has such a low probability of happening that because it did happen, it cannot be by chance alone. This argument is often used by creationists in an attempt to argue that because the Earth’s conditions are perfect for life, the Earth must have been designed for us. Asking what is the probability that this particular phenomenon should occur? is asking the wrong question. The law of truly large numbers states that with a large enough sample size, any unlikely thing is likely to happen. A more meaningful question is what is the probability that any unlikely phenomenon should occur, given a large enough sample size?

9

You must be right Simon. I must be wrong.

by umbertoecho in

simon.

this is your forum.

for the rc have it all wrong.. i am wrong to follow the accurate guidance of these commissioners.

C0ntr013r

Was wondering the same thing, found it here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5212164105175040/australia-artemis-legal-launches-inquiry-into-group-class-action-lawsuits-against-jehovahs-witnesses?page=1&size=20

Looks like a misunderstanding that escalated with lots of hurt feelings as a result :/

I did not read the whole thing so I might be wrong.

My advice: both of you can just take the high road, forgive and forget. It seems like such a petty thing to argue about. (please don't attack me for expressing this opinion :P)

Hope this can be resolved in a loving manner :)