Posts by C0ntr013r

31

MORE PROPAGANDA FROM THE CO!!

by DATA-DOG in

well, once again my "friend" has shared their notes with me from the latest co visit.

besides the usual 1914 assertions/ world getting worse all the time/ our day is the worst of all time nonsense, the co mentioned some interesting things.

number one won't surprise you.

C0ntr013r

I knew this sounded familiar, I remember thinking about this when I looked through the: "God’s Kingdom Rules!" book.

It is not a completely new teaching:

I think this book was the first time we heard about it, correct me if I am wrong.

14

How to get JWs to listen and REALLY think about TTATT...

by C0ntr013r in

i have been trying to discuss and reason with jws about their beliefs for some time now and it usually ends in "agree to disagree".

i just don't feel like i am getting anywhere, they get their guard up super easy and will dismiss anything no matter how logical or factual.. so the other day i tried another tactic, instead of arguing for another point of view i started to agree with them.

this made them much more talkative and open, their guard went away somewhat.

C0ntr013r

"I am now with Zeb, anyone who is still in deserves to waste their lives thus."

That is harsh... "You where indoctrinated from birth, hence you deserve to be in a cult for the rest of your life"

If you don't think it works or can't be bothered, that is one thing. But to say they deserve what they get if they can't wake up on their own or if it takes many years...

I don't agree with that.

14

How to get JWs to listen and REALLY think about TTATT...

by C0ntr013r in

i have been trying to discuss and reason with jws about their beliefs for some time now and it usually ends in "agree to disagree".

i just don't feel like i am getting anywhere, they get their guard up super easy and will dismiss anything no matter how logical or factual.. so the other day i tried another tactic, instead of arguing for another point of view i started to agree with them.

this made them much more talkative and open, their guard went away somewhat.

C0ntr013r

The Searcher

This is similar, but I had more luck getting them to say/think the words themselves. Instead of me saying:

"Isn't it wonderful that JWs do this......"

I ask them questions so they themselves say the words or think them. And hopefully they come to the conclusion.

My goal with this method is to avoid confrontation (I started using it on JWs who get very angry and defensive when you say something against the ORG). I think putting it as bluntly as you do here might result in the very thing I am trying to avoid, it will probably work on some thou.

A variation I might use would be something along the lines of:

Me: I was thinking about my grandmother, she died without becoming a JW or learning about the true Jesus, that means she will get a second chance, I will probably see her again?

JW: We don't know how Jehovah will judge, but if she did not sin against the holy spirit we will see her at the resurrection.

Me: Yeah... It is wonderful that Jehovah has a door open into paradise, that you can get your sins wiped without having to believe in Jesus, so my grandmother can get a fair chance at everlasting life.

JW: Yes. Well, she will have to learn about Jesus and Jehovah in the new world instead....

Me: That is so great. When she is in paradise and sees everything God has done she will have no option but to believe.

JW: ..... Jehovah gives everyone a fair chance.....

Me: Yeah, I know. Especially my grandmother, what could be better than to see the paradise with your own eyes. No faith required!

JW: No, I meant. Everyone will get a fair chance even if it doesn't look that way....

Me: Of course it is fair! Those who endure all the suffering of dying deserve living in paradise for almost 100 years learning about Jehovah (Isaiah 65:20).

JW: Um... At Armageddon... Those people will also die...

Me: Yeah, you're right...

JW change the subject?

Made it up, so I am not sure if it would play out like this. Might be holes in my reasoning or ways for the JW to get out of it? :P

35

Are JWs trying to make dysfunctional kids and destroy their ability to live normal lives?

by C0ntr013r in

are jws trying to make dysfunctional kids that wont "fit" in normal society so they will "return to jehovah"?

because there have been many stories about young people who have been out in the world only to find how bad it was and how correct the org was.. a good jw kid with "good" jw parents will have many big issues, some examples:.

fear of demons (fear, misfit).

C0ntr013r

umbertoecho

Yeah, I have noticed it with many ex JWs who don't know TTATT and who REALLY leave anyway. They usually have some kind of existential crisis, trying to find themselves because they are really lost... Some have started smoking/drugs/alcoholism, maybe joining some culture like hippy/goth or sometimes another cult etc, I think this shows how lost they are. JWs took their identity and now they are trying to find their own but the "cult personality" is still in place so they are imoh probably going fail at a normal life. :(

Maybe something like this happens:

JWs say that people who leave "Jehovah" will turn to drugs etc because people in the world have no hope, "let us eat and drink for tomorrow we shall die".

And the person who leaves still believe this (and more, they are still trapped) will think: Armageddon is coming any day now, I might as well live like a wordy person (JWs idea of how worldly persons live.). They might feel like shit because of this and all the reasons I stated in my OP, they think that JWs where right after all. The world is a terrible place, Satan is not grateful that I left Jehovah, he is being really evil and destroying my life even thought I did what he wanted, especially now when the protection from Jehovah and his organization is gone...

The JW relatives and friends will see this and get confirmation that the ORG was correct, life turns to crap if you leave the fold.

Maybe the "lost one" returns years later when he has been "used" by the world and can warn others of what the world really has to offer, maybe we will see him on the conventions or hear about him in the magazines.

30

What started me on the path to waking up about the lies the WT teaches?

by oppostate in

it was a simple question: isn't jesus my "mediator" if i put faith in him like the scriptures say?

the research to that answer, from the w79 4/1 p. 31, was mind blowing.

how dare they deny me a belief firmly stated in the scriptures?

C0ntr013r

Only JWs will be saved in Armageddon.

14

How to get JWs to listen and REALLY think about TTATT...

by C0ntr013r in

i have been trying to discuss and reason with jws about their beliefs for some time now and it usually ends in "agree to disagree".

i just don't feel like i am getting anywhere, they get their guard up super easy and will dismiss anything no matter how logical or factual.. so the other day i tried another tactic, instead of arguing for another point of view i started to agree with them.

this made them much more talkative and open, their guard went away somewhat.

C0ntr013r

Vidiot

I actually did explain it to my family and they understood me, they don't agree but they understand. Depends on your family I guess.

14

How to get JWs to listen and REALLY think about TTATT...

by C0ntr013r in

i have been trying to discuss and reason with jws about their beliefs for some time now and it usually ends in "agree to disagree".

i just don't feel like i am getting anywhere, they get their guard up super easy and will dismiss anything no matter how logical or factual.. so the other day i tried another tactic, instead of arguing for another point of view i started to agree with them.

this made them much more talkative and open, their guard went away somewhat.

C0ntr013r

As a side note.

If asking questions to make your JW loved once wake up is working for you, keep using that method! If it is not broken, don't fix it! ;)

14

How to get JWs to listen and REALLY think about TTATT...

by C0ntr013r in

i have been trying to discuss and reason with jws about their beliefs for some time now and it usually ends in "agree to disagree".

i just don't feel like i am getting anywhere, they get their guard up super easy and will dismiss anything no matter how logical or factual.. so the other day i tried another tactic, instead of arguing for another point of view i started to agree with them.

this made them much more talkative and open, their guard went away somewhat.

C0ntr013r

Crazyguy

I have tried the other ways and they have not worked, so I thought it would be worth a shot. Since the outcome felt positive I wanted to share it, it really felt like the JW where thinking about it. They probably wont tell you but if they pause and consider, that is more progress than I usually see.

Asking questions that make them think has in my experience mostly made them put up their guard and dismiss everything you say. It is hard to ask a question that makes them question the validity of their religion without having the question labeled as "apostate thinking".

I don't think it will add to their delusion unless they can't see the problem with their own logic, hence the person has to be somewhat intelligent. I am not telling them that I believe as they do but that I agree with their flawed reasoning. And trying to point out that it is flawed so they see it themselves.

One way of thinking about it is that I become the defender of their religion(doing a really bad job at it of course) and they start looking for holes in it, because you are presenting holes for them to find. It is not this blatant but it is similar.

8

Funny JW cartoon

by Funchback in

sorry if others have posted this video already.

i have been away a while...maybe i'm late to the party!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_pqu0bln74.

C0ntr013r

These are funny! There are more of these videos on the makers channel.

14

How to get JWs to listen and REALLY think about TTATT...

by C0ntr013r in

i have been trying to discuss and reason with jws about their beliefs for some time now and it usually ends in "agree to disagree".

i just don't feel like i am getting anywhere, they get their guard up super easy and will dismiss anything no matter how logical or factual.. so the other day i tried another tactic, instead of arguing for another point of view i started to agree with them.

this made them much more talkative and open, their guard went away somewhat.

C0ntr013r

Ding

I don't think I would. Since 1914/607 is based on misinformation and not logical thinking.

I would probably ask them how it can be said that Israel was desolated for 70 years when Nebuzaradan brought 700 more Jews to Babylon in Nebuchadnezzar’s 23 year (5 years after 607). (Jeremiah 52:28-30) And if they agree with that you can show them from Jeremiah that it was actually 70 years for Babylon (Jeremiah 29:10), not 70 years of desolation. Then you can use the bible to prove that Jerusalem fell 587.

C0ntr013r

Posts by C0ntr013r

This is similar, but I had more luck getting them to say/think the words themselves. Instead of me saying:

"Isn't it wonderful that JWs do this......"

I ask them questions so they themselves say the words or think them. And hopefully they come to the conclusion.

My goal with this method is to avoid confrontation (I started using it on JWs who get very angry and defensive when you say something against the ORG). I think putting it as bluntly as you do here might result in the very thing I am trying to avoid, it will probably work on some thou.

A variation I might use would be something along the lines of:

Me: I was thinking about my grandmother, she died without becoming a JW or learning about the true Jesus, that means she will get a second chance, I will probably see her again?

JW: We don't know how Jehovah will judge, but if she did not sin against the holy spirit we will see her at the resurrection.

Me: Yeah... It is wonderful that Jehovah has a door open into paradise, that you can get your sins wiped without having to believe in Jesus, so my grandmother can get a fair chance at everlasting life.

JW: Yes. Well, she will have to learn about Jesus and Jehovah in the new world instead....

Me: That is so great. When she is in paradise and sees everything God has done she will have no option but to believe.

JW: ..... Jehovah gives everyone a fair chance.....

Me: Yeah, I know. Especially my grandmother, what could be better than to see the paradise with your own eyes. No faith required!

JW: No, I meant. Everyone will get a fair chance even if it doesn't look that way....

Me: Of course it is fair! Those who endure all the suffering of dying deserve living in paradise for almost 100 years learning about Jehovah (Isaiah 65:20).

JW: Um... At Armageddon... Those people will also die...

Me: Yeah, you're right...

*JW change the subject?*

Made it up, so I am not sure if it would play out like this. Might be holes in my reasoning or ways for the JW to get out of it? :P

Maybe something like this happens:

JWs say that people who leave "Jehovah" will turn to drugs etc because people in the world have no hope, "let us eat and drink for tomorrow we shall die".

The JW relatives and friends will see this and get confirmation that the ORG was correct, life turns to crap if you leave the fold.

Maybe the "lost one" returns years later when he has been "used" by the world and can warn others of what the world really has to offer, maybe we will see him on the conventions or hear about him in the magazines.

I actually did explain it to my family and they understood me, they don't agree but they understand. Depends on your family I guess.

Asking questions that make them think has in my experience mostly made them put up their guard and dismiss everything you say. It is hard to ask a question that makes them question the validity of their religion without having the question labeled as "apostate thinking".

One way of thinking about it is that I become the defender of their religion(doing a really bad job at it of course) and they start looking for holes in it, because you are presenting holes for them to find. It is not this blatant but it is similar.

I don't think I would. Since 1914/607 is based on misinformation and not logical thinking.

Good YouTube series that explains it all in detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T826mTyle7Q

The method in my OP is dealing with logical problems, not factual once.

JW change the subject?