Posts by C0ntr013r

7

WT Australia Financial Report 2014

by LostGeneration in

came across this in the stuff posted by the royal commission.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=dcb6f401-f19b-4783-b9fb-7fe8bbf620fc&type=exhibit&filename=wat.0009.001.0004&fileextension=pdf.

just downloaded it so i can't comment yet on the financials, would like to have a few of the financial minds on the board take a look and offer any opinions on their financial situation..

C0ntr013r

I think Lett might have been right, the amount of money flowing out of the ORG is much greater than the amount of money coming in.

https://youtu.be/eG_Vc8lemKg?t=2m22s

25

[Day 2 - 28/7]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

i decided to take one for the team and stay up to record day 2.. part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 and 3 will soon be available.. part 1: .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxspcullksa&list=plpq6kz-aghvqbadlzmqn26dvmpzddxlui&index=4.

playlist where the other parts will be added as i upload them, it also contains day 1 recorded by barbara:.

C0ntr013r

Maybe, I would certainly watch it

43

Extrapolation of the Australia child abuse numbers

by sir82 in

(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).

basic facts:.

the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.

C0ntr013r

There are 400K registered sex offenders in the USA and 320M inhabitants that is 0.13% of the population

Roughly 1 for every 1000 people

1.75% / 0.13% = 13.46

That would mean that JWs have almost 13.5 times more child molesters than the general public...

Both the 400k number and 1006 are of known molesters so this calculation should be fairly accurate.

That sounds way to much to me, 2x or maybe 3x but 13x?!?

43

Extrapolation of the Australia child abuse numbers

by sir82 in

(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).

basic facts:.

the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.

C0ntr013r

There are likely several abusers in every Kingdom Hall in the world, and maybe a dozen or 2 per circuit

I think this could be the case during a 60 years period but hardly at any given point.

I live in a country where reporting is mandatory and I have only heard of a few (less than 5) during a period of say... 40 years for the entire circuit. Brought about because the elders both warned people in the congregation and had the matters reported to the police (they where probably out of line with the "guidelines" but it gives me a good view of the situation in my area) None of these where "active" during the same time, either convicted or turned inactive and faded.

EDIT: then taking into account the cases I never learned about we are still not near such a high number.

You are suggesting that 2% of the JWs are "active" child molesters in good standing within the congregation.

That is 1 for every 50 publishers...

1

Office holders of: WATCHTOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY OF AUSTRALIA, names addresses etc.

by C0ntr013r in

the information provided by the watchtower to the royal commission is turning out to be a gold mine, you can find almost anything related to jws in australia.. want to know the names, addresses, birth dates and appointment dates of the office holders at bethel in australia?.

name of the document: .

asic current and historical extract.

C0ntr013r

The information provided by the watchtower to the Royal Commission is turning out to be a gold mine, you can find almost anything related to JWs in Australia.

Want to know the names, addresses, birth dates and appointment dates of the office holders at bethel in Australia?

Name of the document:

ASIC current and historical extract

Almost half way down tha page: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney

This is pretty amazing stuff that has been posted! :D

43

Extrapolation of the Australia child abuse numbers

by sir82 in

(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).

basic facts:.

the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.

C0ntr013r

That is much different than "tell the elders if you see your JW classmate smoking a cigarette".

But you saw my point as to how that would affect the numbers?

JWs don't care what's "mandatory" according to worldly laws. They follow their own laws. If the Borg HQ tells them not to report, they won't report, regardless of the law.

We are not talking about reporting to the secular authorities.

Maybe 144,000 JW child abusers among 115,000 congregations

Probably the best estimate LMAO

12

Letter from Watchtower Australia to Governing Body (Watchtower Pennsylvania) regarding disclosure of information to secular authorities.

by C0ntr013r in

i found this interesting document among the files watchtower sent to the royal commission:.

letter from watchtower australia to governing body (watchtower pennsylvania) regarding disclosure of information to secular authorities.. scroll 1/3 of the way down on this page to find it:.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

C0ntr013r

I found this interesting document among the files watchtower sent to the Royal Commission:

Letter from Watchtower Australia to Governing Body (Watchtower Pennsylvania) regarding disclosure of information to secular authorities.

Scroll 1/3 of the way down on this page to find it:

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney

Up till now the brothers generally expect that the elders will keep all matters confidential, since this has been stressed a number of times. In Australia, it has happened that some elders have been prepared to accept punishment for contempt of court rather than disclose confidential information. However, we are now saying that elders should comply with the law where mandatory reporting is required if there is no exemption available to them.

The situation will no doubt arise at some time where elders will have to disclose some information concerning child abuse, either to the secular authorities or even in open court if they are called upon to answer. Our feeling is that it may seem to publishers that the elders are treating confidential matters lightly. Also, it may be that some who have sinned would hesitate to talk to the elders if they thought that elders would not respect confidentiality.You asked us to set out what we believe would help in Our Kingdom Ministry if we feel it is really needed.

It has been suggested that the following be printed in a Question Box in Our Kingdom Ministry. It would not be necessary to schedule it as part of the service meeting program, unless we simply ask the Presiding Overseer or another elder simply to read the question and answer in the Announcements part of the meeting.

Question: Should elders supply information to secular authorities when they learn that a brother or sister has been involved in a serious crime?
Answer: Information given to elders is treated as confidential and is not discussed with others who are not involved. (w71 4/1, pp. 222-4) All Christians are counseled by God’s Word to be law-abiding, and they are to pay to Caesar what is Caesar’s where there is no conflict with God’s laws. (Matthew 22:21; w90 11/1 pp. 10-15, 18-28) When Christians obey Caesar’s laws that are not in conflict with God’s laws, they have no need to “fear” punishment from the authorities as law-breakers, and they can maintain a good conscience.—Romans 13:3, 4.

If an elder learns of some serious crime on the part of a member of the congregation, he may, in some circumstances, be obliged by law to report the matter or to provide some information to secular authorities. It is not the responsibility of the elders to enforce Caesar’s laws, but the very nature of some crimes demands that they be reported, or that they be dealt with by Caesar, for this is the “arrangement of God.” (Romans 13:2) Even in such cases, it is important that the elders maintain confidentiality to the CONFIDENTIAL (RC) WAT.0012.001.0009 Governing Body, Service Committee From Australia Branch April 28, 1998 No. 212 Page 2 extent possible, and elders should always contact the Society before providing any information on confidential matters to secular authorities.

Elders prove to be a “hiding place from the wind” to all in the congregation who are truly repentant, and they try to “readjust such a person,” no matter how serious the sin committed. (Isaiah 32:2; Galatians 6:1) However, while Jehovah forgives repentant sinners, there may be consequences of the actions of the sinner that cannot be avoided. Depending on the law of the land, the sinner may have to face sanctions from the state, or even serve a prison term. The congregation will not protect him from that.—See The Watchtower, January 1, 1997, page 29.

While in Brooklyn I turned in to the Service Committee a summary dated November 21, 1997 of what the Australia branch was saying. A copy is enclosed. The branch here will be happy if the Service and Writing Committees agree basically with what has been said, and we look forward to any comments or directions you may have.

We will look forward to your further comments on any of these matters. We realize that this is a complicated subject with many ramifications, and we appreciate the careful consideration given to the matter by the Governing Body. We have a current case under way which we are handling according to our past policies, so we would appreciate your comments as soon as convenient. We take this opportunity of sending our warm love. Your brother, H. V. Mouritz For the Branch Committee AUSTRALIA BRANCH Encl.

43

Extrapolation of the Australia child abuse numbers

by sir82 in

(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).

basic facts:.

the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.

C0ntr013r

I might actually have to do some calculating myself, but I agree that it is a huge problem!

43

Extrapolation of the Australia child abuse numbers

by sir82 in

(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).

basic facts:.

the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.

C0ntr013r

Also, since this is over a period of 30 years I would guess that most of the victims at some point in there adult life told someone about the abuse. To say less than 50% of all abuse over a period of 30 years never reach the elders sounds unlikely. Remember that members are encouraged to report on each other to the elders.

43

Extrapolation of the Australia child abuse numbers

by sir82 in

(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).

basic facts:.

the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.

C0ntr013r

Yeah, but my assumption was that someone who "operated" within the past 30 years is likely still alive and thus presents a current danger.

I know but I think there is a differece between "140,000 JW child abusers among 115,000 congregations right now" and "140,000 JW child abusers among 115,000 congregations over a period of 30 years"

But I don't think it would lower my estimate by 90%

Maybe not but I believe it would be considerably lower since you are using the reference of a virtual haven for pedophiles (no mandatory reporting) and that will give you much higher number than the world average.

I really have no idea of what the real numbers would be.

EDIT: also, such "haven" would attract additional pedophiles.