I have similar "discussions" with my family from time to time, it is really nice that I have gotten to that point with them. I have found that most topics are fine to discuss if you are respectful. Took many years of conversation to get to this point though. Happy for you! :)
C0ntr013r
JoinedPosts by C0ntr013r
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22
A lot of "forbidden" talk is going on among witnesses
by nevaagain inme and my wife are still "in".
we had the "talk" a couple of times, but shet is not ready to leave yet.
while a couple of years ago she started crying on the thought that i am an "apostate" and even gave me an ultimatum until she would rat me out to the elders (never happened), now i sense that she might is a little bit more open to the the thought to leave one day .... anyway, all out friends and family are still in the truth and whenever we are meeting with other witnesses topic #1 is always the recent changes to the meetings / conventions (reduced to one day) which always lead to the changes to the magazines and the recent lay offs of the special pioneers and bethelites.
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51
Your Opinion Pleeease
by thankyou injw girl non-jw guy.
tenuous boyfriend-girlfriend relationship.
what is more likely to strengthen a relationship?.
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C0ntr013r
Sounds like it might work itself out for you then, nice! Keep us posted! :) -
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What is the alternative to JW?
by Formerbrother ini mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.
im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?
the the bible is word?
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C0ntr013r
It certainly does a much better job explaining the weirder shit found in nature...
You never bought the: "God has humor" argument?
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Old, Faithful and Forgotten...
by rrb2016 inhad a conversation with my jw mother the other day.
she has been baptized for over 50 years.
i've been out for 30 years, but because both my mother and mother-in-law are jw's i keep up with all things jw.
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C0ntr013r
Wonder if that was the condition apple had to give the GB gold apple watches xD
"Force your members to buy tablets and we will sponsor you with our most expensive 17 000 dollar watches" :P
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475
What is the alternative to JW?
by Formerbrother ini mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.
im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?
the the bible is word?
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475
What is the alternative to JW?
by Formerbrother ini mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.
im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?
the the bible is word?
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C0ntr013r
Former Brother,
I commend you for having the courage and curiosity to examine your believes and biases, which we all should be doing. The people on here has a vast cumulative knowledge base and can help in many ways. But it is not the substitute for research, you have to do the studying and thinking yourself. We can point you in the right direction but you have to find the answers yourself.
"you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink"
Is evolution a viable option to creationism?This topic is a very big one which requires a lot of research before you get a good feel for it. That is partly because it involves many areas; genetics, biology, paleontology, etc. There are many good books to get you started. Remember, you need both sides of an issue to get an objective view of it. You have heard the creationist arguments and sadly sometimes their misrepresentation of the opposing view("evolution is just random chance" is a common one). Maybe you should look into why it is taught as science in schools, is it; "just a theory" as creationists would have you believe, or is there something to it? Is it "just" a huge conspiracy?
I can share one thing to get you going; the predictions the theory of evolution can make is used to make medicines. (The "success" of a theory is determent by its predictive powers; if the predictions fail, the theory is scrapped. Evolution is taught as science in schools because it works, much like many other successful theories)
Is the bible Gods word?Another equally challenging question.
For me; my inability to prove that it is, is a huge factor. But everyone is different.
Here as well I would advice you to look at the other side to get some perspective on the issue. You have heard all the reasons why the bible must be from God. Now you need to look up all the reasons others say it is not. Only then will you be able to make a informed decision about what to believe. And reading the watchtower publications regarding those arguments does not count! They are misleading at best, and I understand why... They are teaching something controversial, why would they want to tell their "followers" the best arguments against their own doctrine.
Does God exist?
You have to do the same thing here, just like with the previous question.
By their fruits you shall know them...This one is interesting because of how it contradicts itself.
Look at the catholic church and all their pedophiles, this is proof that God is not with them!
Look at the JWs, they have a universal love for each other, this is proof that God is with them!
Look at the JWs and all the problems they have had with pedophiles that have submerged in recent times; God is using imperfect men and there will always be bad people, even inside Gods org.
Look at all the good the catholic church have done with their charitable works, the Devil is turning himself into a angle of light...
No matter which way you turn it, this will always be highly subjective. And it will play right into your own confirmation bias.
The light will get brighter...Others have pointed this out but I will say it again, there is nothing in the context of this proverb that indicates that it is anything but a proverb. No mention of prophesy or anything. You may of course believe that it is one but many of us here do not.
But what you need more than answers to these questions is the ability to get them!First of: You need to get rid of your biases and prejudices, you have to reevaluate everything you have been taught. Scary, I know! But it will be worth it, maybe you will conclude that you where correct all along.. It would still be worth it, because this time you examined both sides in a objective way to find out what you want to believe. You have to give both sides of every argument a fair chance, no matter how biased you feel.
Second: You need to learn, critical thinking skills, how to use proper logic and what fallacies to avoid, skepticism. How cognitive dissonance works and how confirmation bias works etc. I am not trying to insult you in any way, these skills are generally not learned unless studied. And I doubt any JW have a good understanding of them without realizing something is off... There is much loaded language, fallacious logic and logical fallacies in the publications. And critical thinking does not go well with publications which lack almost any references at all, this applies to all kinds of statements, supposed quotes and flat out exaggerations. How do you back up the statement:
"The moral confusion in the world has left its mark, especially among the impressionable youth."
A critical approach would be:
How do they know there is moral confusion in the world? How did it leave a mark? Are the premises even true? Why is the youth more confused then the others? And how do they know this?
And there are never any source for these kind of statements in the JWs publications(I have yet to find any at least)...
I remember writing a paper at university when I first got there, thinking this was an acceptable way of writing.. I was told that you can not state something like this without referencing a study to back up the claim, unless I made it into my personal opinion instead.
And watchtower does this all the time, mixing factual claims with opinions from their own doctrinal worldview. Wanting the facts to bend as to fit their agenda.
I think I have ranted long enough :P
Regardless to say; learning critical, logical thinking is a real eye opener!
It is not easy, but there are no shortcuts if you want to build you believes on a stable foundation ;)
Good luck in your search for "Truth"! :)
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How confident are you about various so called facts?
by slimboyfat inno facts about the world are absolutely certain.
that being the case i wonder how others would rank amd rate their confidence in various factual statements about the world.
i am going to rate my confidence in ten items of "knowledge" as a percentage.
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C0ntr013r
To me it looks like you use the same words but mean different things.
Unless you agree on the definition of: "sure/certainty" you cant discuss it.. At least not in any meaningful way.
Also, some people can have 0%/100% confidence in something. Others cant because they always take the possibility that they are wrong into the equation(no matter how small).
So to state that is it wrong to asses 100% certainty is incorrect, if it is a measure of perceived certainly and not probability. (why it is so important to define what the words mean in the context)
But it is also incorrect to say that you can have 100% confidence in something, since some people cant.
It is two fundamentally different perspectives.
This is my take on it anyhow.
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175
How confident are you about various so called facts?
by slimboyfat inno facts about the world are absolutely certain.
that being the case i wonder how others would rank amd rate their confidence in various factual statements about the world.
i am going to rate my confidence in ten items of "knowledge" as a percentage.
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C0ntr013r
I don't believe in certainty...
1. The earth is a sphere rather than flat in shape.
99%
2. Global warming is a real phenomenon of serious concern that is caused by human activities.
50%
3. Life on Earth evolved its many forms through the process of natural selection.
90%
4. The gospels are based on a real apocalyptic preacher called Jesus who lived in first century Palestine.
70%
5. J F Rutherford was a drunk who cheated on his wife with various women.
40%
6. Smoking causes lung cancer.
95%
7. Men really walked on the moon.
90%
8. Consciousness survives death.
1%
9. Moses wrote the Pentateuch.
10%
10. Dragons exists.
1%
11. Homeopathy is effective beyond placebo.
3%
12. O J Simpson was innocent.
-%
13. Scotland will be an independent country within 20 years.
10%
14. There will be a nuclear war sometime in the 21st century.
30%
15. The New Testament originally contained the divine name.
50%
16. At least one of the presidents of the Watchtower was homosexual.
30%
17. The universe began in a Big Bang around 14 billion years ago.
90%
18. China is the country with the most people.
95%
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My family has known I'm an apostate
by cognac ini found out that my husband has not only gone to the elders, but has been going to members of my family about me over a period of a few years.
this piece of news is just so depressing.
i've been wondering how my family knew i didn't go and thats why so many of them have becoming more and more distant.
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C0ntr013r
How ironic that the Jws say a marriage can't be fully functional without "a third party"; Jehovah(aka: JW.ORG)...
They say it is needed for a truly strong and happy marriage. It is why so many marriages in the world don't last...
(that is not true either, Jws divorce rates are just as high as any other denomination)
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Mobile Hotspot - JWFACTS.COM - Assembly & Conventions
by thedepressedsoul inhere is an idea i tested.
works at both assemblies and conventions.
i have noticed at the last convention and at my last assembly that when i opened up my wifi setting, tons of hotspots came up for people tethering their tablets to their smart phones.
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C0ntr013r
I like the idea!
Would be interesting to monitor the activity and see what things the Jws read on the "apostate" sites.
Apostate meeting in bathroom 1pm xD hilarious!
It might result in a bunch of elders going there and looking suspiciously at each other :P
The servants at "my" convention use what's app to communicate, so they will probably find out about these things fast.
