Posts by IsaacJ22

28

Can you give specific examples of the WTBTS taking quotes out of context?

by Chemical Emotions in

not just from the bible, but from secular writers and others.

or other similar mistakes/lies regarding quotes and stories and things like that.. .

i have noticed a few, but i can't remember most of them... oops.

IsaacJ22

There are many examples in the Creation Book. The whole book is pretty terrible and is the worst example of WT research I know. The science is bad and the quotes are even worse. A number of reviews and articles have been written about it since it's a popular book among creationists.

I actually tried contacting some of the people quoted in the book myself just to confirm--for myself--that these claims about their quotes being taken out of context were legit. This was a long time ago.

The most thorough paper on it I know is locate here. Another site that handles some of it's problems can be found here if you want a less lengthy example.

19

Paradise Earth for JW's the same as Heaven for other Christian groups?

by punkofnice in

i've often thought it weird how jar hoover was going to lovingly murder all non jw's soon (terms and conditions apply and are subject to 'overlapping').

then the good ones would live in paradise happy that their family, friends and loved ones all died because jar hoover would mess with their minds.. recently i've been worshipping in a church but the same scenario has posed itself in a different way.

if good christians go to heaven whilst family, friends and loved ones who don't believe go to hell...........what's the difference from believing that to believing the jw nonsense???????.

IsaacJ22

Many Witnesses think their version is more merciful. At least Jehovah isn't sending bad people to hell for eternal torment, that sort of thing. It's just one shot to the head and bang, all over.

Gee, doesn't that sound merciful and nice?

When discussing these things with Witnesses, I tend to think more about stuff like, "If Jehovah can do anything, why can't he be bothered to teach the truth to worldly people during the last days instead of murdering them at Armageddon?" Usually, they'll say it just isn't possible or something like that.

Funny, if you ask a Witness about logical problems with earthly resurrection, like, "But how do we know it'll really be us who are resurrected and not just some copy with our memories?" You'll get an answer like: "Because Jehovah can do anything! That's why!"

Yet, when it's convenient, suddenly Jehovah can't do everything, even if it means saving billions of lives from Armageddon. How does that work?

Is their version of paradise versus hell really so much better after all?

27

Do JW Organization Mistakes Matter?

by InterestedOne in

after reading what concerned jw has to say, i gather that for him, if the jw organization is currently making any mistakes, those mistakes do not matter and are not worth naming, not even one.

i am completely baffled by this and would like to understand why a person would take this position.

concerned jw, can you please explain why you take this position?

IsaacJ22

I think it's because most JWs value loyalty to the org above all other things. The Society's mistakes are merely the result of human imperfection. Jehovah wants them to be loyal and obey the Society. Hence, that's what matters.

Being loyal gets you into paradise. Questioning the org's mistakes will not. Priorities, people! :-)

20

There is no social programme in exsistance that recommends shunning as a means of rehabilitation

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

can someone tell the wts/jw's how utterly counter productive & cruel shunning is?.

apart from serious crimes where a person might conscientiously have nothing to do with a friend/relative, people who are struggling with any kind of issues generally need love, support & kindness.. shunning is unnecessary, evil & humiliating.. does the punishment really fit the crime?

someone caves into the 'sins of the flesh' so they are cut off from all human contact with everyone they know?.

IsaacJ22

Many fundamentalists are all anger when it comes to those who don't share their views. They like the fire and brimstone. JWs use shunning as the cold shoulder, passive aggressive equivalent. If they break you and force you to seek reinstatement, you are--in effect--saying, "I'm sorry. I was wrong. You are right."

It also allows them to feel superior. They stay the course like a good JW, and their glad they aren't like you.

In the end, it reinforces their self righteousness and keeps them away from those with new, independent ideas that could "corrupt" them. So it works on several levels. Just like field service. :-)

I doubt it's going anywhere.

36

Bad day in Athiest/Jehovah's-Witnessville

by Nickolas in

jw
friends

bear with me for a day or two, ok?

if i don't vent a bit i'll leave gray matter spontaneously spattered all over my office walls..

IsaacJ22

I don't know what it's like where you live (apparently this isn't so uncommon in some parts of the country judging by other posts) but I tend to agree that this is a pretty weak motive for splitting up. Maybe the girl has an issue with guys with overbearing moms and is overly sensitive to this issue? That's about the only real sense I can make of it, unless her future MIL behaved badly during the visit. Even then, it would have to be awful enough that it would surely have been obvious to you.

I will admit that assigning them separate rooms was pretty old school, perhaps a smidge controlling, too. It's certainly a way of imposing her morals onto them, though it is half her house. Still, if that were my future MIL, I might think that she won't be easy to get along with, but I don't think I would split up a relationship over it. I'd probably cut my visit as short as I could, though.

Then again, I barely see my own family, much less my in-laws. :-) So maybe I'm not the best one to ask. Or, regarding what's "normal" in different areas, maybe you're neighborhood is at one end of the extreme while mine is somewhere in the middle. Just as some who have posted here might be at the opposite extreme from your own.

31

You're only an ATHEIST because of the abusive relationship you had with your former religion..?

by Velour in

the few times that i've had a chat about my atheism, i usually get a response like the one above.

"well, seeing how you were in a cult- i can understand why you're an atheist now," just dismissing the bulk of the reasons i have for my disbelief.. i think what is particularly awkward about someone telling me this is- it's part way true- only part way though.

however, they stop listening after i explain to them that, "yes, being in a cult was an impetus to my search" and they fail to hear the rest of what i'm saying and believe that i went from point a to point f and just skipped all the steps and months of research in between out of some kind of anti-jw tantrum.

IsaacJ22

I've had similar experiences. I've also noticed the similarity with being an atheist and being an XJW. JWs often attribute our desire to leave the KH as being a temper tantrum against the elders or other members of the congregation elite, just as many believers assume atheists are having a tantrum against religion or God generally.

Worse, for both atheists and XJWs, people think they're being generous to you when they make this kind of assumption. They assume you're really a good person, despite being an atheist or XJW, deep down!

If you really do make them grasp the simple concept that your experiences were only a starting point, that you really have way better reasons going on, they suddenly see you as a bad person or a threat. They stop listening altogether.

All I can say to that is, "Wow."

24

were you made to feel guilty if you missed a meeting / service ?

by man in black in

going along with the last thread ( great subject matter) .

i'm sort of hitching along here.. we had a bookstudy at our home for several years, every week we were prepared, and we handled service arraingements every saturday morning, even with two young children.. one saturday morning, ( in the middle of winter) one son had a bad cold, and our furnace konked out around 8:15 am.. i was running around trying to get ready for service, calling a repair man, and help my wife get ready for service.. the group comes in at 9:00, and i'm on the phone talking to the repair man who wants to come out between 10-2.. so i'm not going out this morning, and i'm staying home with my sick son, wife and son #2 are going out in service.. conductor comes downstairs and looks at the furnace ( he is a school teacher, no mechanical experience at all, check out my earlier thread video under friends, page 5827 titled "elder makes a video,,,, this is the same guy ) and gives me the classic guilt trip because i'm not going out in service for at least an hour this morning.. i remember thinking just who is this guy, trying to make me feel bad because my family is #1, service is not my focus today.. after all of these years, i cannot help but think of this comment now :.

"nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent", e. roosevelt.

IsaacJ22

I got a lot of this back in the day. Even when I was going to meetings regularly, there was a family that would come to the grocery store where I was working. They'd rant on and on about my attendance right in the middle of my checkout line! The truth was that I had been going to meetings, but they just hadn't seen me there. It was a big congregation, nearly double the size of most, so that sort of thing happened a lot. They simply didn't believe me. Or maybe they didn't want to believe me.

Like, what the hell, man?

Another guy did the same thing when I was a teenager because I had just gotten baptized. He was nearly 30, but unbaptized, and offended that I was missing 2 Sundays a month to keep my job! Even though he missed more meetings than he attended. I pointed this out to him, and he agreed this was true. Yet, he told me, he wasn't baptized. And I was. So I had an obligation...in his eyes at least...that I wasn't living up to.

I had the same reaction to this one. By the time I had quit the KH, he wasn't even attending meetings anyway.

I could tell you lots of stories like these. My parents weren't Witnesses and opposed my going to meetings. So everyone thought they were entitled to be my parents in their stead. Can you say, "fun?" I couldn't.

There were lots of morons like these at my KH. Some of them honestly seemed to get off on it. I think it made them feel superior while also allowing them to nitpick someone to death. People tend to do this more in controlled environments like the KH. They get nitpicked by authority figures like the elders, so they find someone else lower in rank that they can pick on in turn.

The more casual indifference you show to this kind of behavior, the less of it you'll see. If you take it badly, you'll inflate their egos and encourage them. If you have a "so what" attitude and shrug at them, it will deflate their egos and make them feel foolish and nitpicky. Which is what they're being.

36

Bad day in Athiest/Jehovah's-Witnessville

by Nickolas in

jw
friends

bear with me for a day or two, ok?

if i don't vent a bit i'll leave gray matter spontaneously spattered all over my office walls..

IsaacJ22

I've had plenty of them. Especially when my in-laws come back from a convention and they're all jacked up on the WT spirit juice. Ya know?

"Let's go save somebody from themselves. Hey, where does that Isaac guy live?!?"

BTW, this is their weekend. Hurray.

I think there's more than enough non-believers here to relate. Fire away.

12

Have mankind become more humane then the God they serve?

by jam in

IsaacJ22

Yeah, I think many humans are more humane than the god of the Bible. But then, I'm an atheist. I also think an average, modern human could write a better religious book than the Bible. So... (shrugs).

10

My fathers weekly visit from the witnesses

by Igot2bme in

jw
friends

my father who has never been a jw had a visit from a brother in a congo in his territory.

he usually comes over at least one time a week and places magazines and shoots the breeze with him about different issues.

this last visit though left a sour taste with him.

IsaacJ22

I've also known quite a few JWs with some racists leanings. Most are the "old guy racist" types, which most people seem to excuse for some reason. They won't put a burning cross in your yard, but they'll happily drop the N bomb whenever they think they can get away with it. My father-in-law included.