Posts by brotherdan

98

Do you believe the "Conscious Class" will be saved? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)

by brotherdan in

there are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: god's only true organization.

but do you think that these ones that still believe in christ and his crucifixtion will still be saved?

after all, salvation does not come from an organization.

brotherdan

But, slimboy, Paul was used by Jesus. The GB are not. When he said things about staying single and not having children, he made sure that they knew these were not inspired expressions but merely his opinions. He was granted visions that non of the other apostles were granted. He saw heaven itself.

You've gotta look at the Bible without religious glasses. And that includes without Atheistic glasses as well.

Get yourself a good translation of the Bible and devour it. You will find, like I did, that may major objections about it were answered and in fact, they tended to build my faith rather than destroy it.

98

Do you believe the "Conscious Class" will be saved? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)

by brotherdan in

there are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: god's only true organization.

but do you think that these ones that still believe in christ and his crucifixtion will still be saved?

after all, salvation does not come from an organization.

brotherdan

Chalam (Stephen),

I'm not talking about "fooled" JWs. I'm talking about those that realize that Jesus is NOT an angel. That he DID die on the cross for their sins. Who is to say what doctrines are REQUIRED for salvation? For example, MUST I believe in the Rapture (which I do, by the way), to be saved? Is that a REQUIRED doctrine? Then why is it only alluded to in the bible? What about the belief of living on earth again one day?

Is not belief in Christ and his sacrifice for our sins the main doctrine of the NT and the basis on which all men should be saved? There are probably MANY things that we will see that we had wrong once we are in heaven.

21

Long Distance Adultery and Other Issues

by buddhaisbetter in

allow me a moment to introduce myself: first of all, i am not a member of your faith as surely can be garnered from my choice of user name.

i joined this forum with the intention of getting some information on a situation i'm forced to contend with that concerns my son.

my questions are not designed to bash your beliefs, regardless of my personally held opinions and i hope that any discussion can be conducted without contention.

brotherdan

Welcome buddhaisbetter! I won't repeat what everyone else has said here (which is very true). I am currently in this organization, and I have to warn you. You have plenty of reason to be worried.

Even though this woman seems to be rebelling from the Jehovah's Witnesses, her statement that she IS a Jehovah's Witness is very telling. I have known many people that have been disfellowshiped (aka excommunicated) that are still captives of this religion. So although she is doing something wrong by being with another man other than her husband, her beliefs are still largely JW.

No doubt she has been "witnessing" to your son. Even if your son does not fall for this cult there are dangers. I am married to a VERY active Jehovah's Witness. The fact that we have very different beliefs has been extremely damaging to our relationship. Your son will only have trouble if he stays with this girl.

You may want to think about trying to get him into a different counselor. Most psychiatrists/psychologists know about Jehovah's Witnesses. They are a mind control group that, while they seem to have good intentions, tend to cause extreme problems in the family life of non-believers.

While it may sound like an easy fix to go to this womans elders, I do not see this as having any good results. She will get disfellowshiped without a doubt. But that will not free her from her captivity to this cult. It may, in fact, have the opposite effect. She could try to "come back" and try and get your son to support her in doing this. They would have no association at the kingdom hall, but once she got reinstated into the organization they tend to "love bomb" people. It will seem to your son as if the congregation has a huge amount of love. And this could cause him to be fooled as well.

The best thing to do is to try and show him the origins of this organization and show him that it is similar to many other dangerous cults that have proven to be deadly in the past. Maybe then he can either distance himself from this woman, or even perhaps show her where she has been mislead.

98

Do you believe the "Conscious Class" will be saved? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)

by brotherdan in

there are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: god's only true organization.

but do you think that these ones that still believe in christ and his crucifixtion will still be saved?

after all, salvation does not come from an organization.

brotherdan

Thanks Aunt Bee. I guess I'm trying to reconcile my own position.

For everyone else, by conscious class I mean those that recognize this is organization is not what it claims to be. But they are still associated with it for one reason or another.

For slimboyfat I'm not saying anything about mainstream Christianity. I'm speaking completely from a biblical point of view. I personally feel that there are true Christians that are Lutherans and false Christians that are Lutherans. I believe that there are true Christians that are Baptists or Catholics or Greek Orthodox and those that are false.

Isn't Christianity based on our living the Christian life and believing in Jesus and his death on the cross (or even stake for that matter) in sacrifice of our sins? If this is true, then could there not be some with the WT organization that, while seeing that it cannot be "the truth", it also does not disqualify them as being true Christians?

I personally am still in the organization, as many of you know. But I don't agree with MANY MANY MANY of the teachings. What I believe has to come directly from the Bible and not from men. But does still being associated with this organization disqualify me as being a true Christian. That's the essence of my question.

98

Do you believe the "Conscious Class" will be saved? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)

by brotherdan in

there are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: god's only true organization.

but do you think that these ones that still believe in christ and his crucifixtion will still be saved?

after all, salvation does not come from an organization.

brotherdan

I THINK I get what you are saying Chalam. But what about those that do follow Christ? They are only trying to help loved ones to see the truth. They are living as true Christians, and believe that Jesus IS the Christ and that he died for our sins and was raised on the 3rd day?

It's not doctrine that saves us. Nor is it organization. But belief in Jesus.

Is it IMPOSSIBLE for the conscious class to be saved?

59

Question for Titus

by Albert Einstein in

jw
friends

titus, you today made a statement regarding an essential wt doctrine: .

i am an active jw.. can i tell you what that doctrine is?.

bullshit!.

brotherdan

One thing that I've learned from being a part of this group is that we all need to have respect for each others views and opinions. I have been guilty for condemning others for their viewpoints, and have been corrected by MANY on this site about it. I, for one, appreciate the diversity of views.

Titus, that includes your views. I think we all can learn from each other. I truly feel that none of us have it EXACTLY right. So let's live and let live and learn from each others experiences.

STAY TITUS!

98

Do you believe the "Conscious Class" will be saved? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)

by brotherdan in

there are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: god's only true organization.

but do you think that these ones that still believe in christ and his crucifixtion will still be saved?

after all, salvation does not come from an organization.

brotherdan

There are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: God's only true organization. But do you think that these ones that still believe in Christ and His crucifixtion will still be saved? After all, salvation does not come from an organization. It comes from being a Christian. What do you think? Will the "Conscious Class" be saved?

46

The WTS say they are NOT Creationists........

by cantleave in

then wtf are they?.

why don't they like that term?.

brotherdan

Good point Keyser. Is the word "disfellowship" ever found in the Bible?

91

Do you REALLY believe Ezekiel laid seige to a brick 390 days?

by Terry in

in ezekiel the 4th chapter one of the most ludicrous passages in the bible tells us god commanded his prophet ezekiel to lie on his left side in a mock seige against a.....brick!

for how long?

390 days!.

brotherdan

Why do I believe it? 2 Tim 3:16

46

The WTS say they are NOT Creationists........

by cantleave in

then wtf are they?.

why don't they like that term?.

brotherdan

I think they may be saying that they are not creationsits in the sense that they don't believe in 6 literal days of creation. They hold to their teaching that each "day" of creation meant millions of years.

Interestingly, there are no other parts of the bible that use the word "day" in which the society disagrees with it's meaning of a literal day. I've never seen any proof that the Hebrews or Christians ever believed that the days of creation were more than literal 24 hour days either.