There are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: God's only true organization. But do you think that these ones that still believe in Christ and His crucifixtion will still be saved? After all, salvation does not come from an organization. It comes from being a Christian. What do you think? Will the "Conscious Class" be saved?
Do you believe the "Conscious Class" will be saved? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)
by brotherdan 98 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Chalam
Matthew 10:32-40 (New International Version)
32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.
Blessings, Stephen
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brotherdan
I THINK I get what you are saying Chalam. But what about those that do follow Christ? They are only trying to help loved ones to see the truth. They are living as true Christians, and believe that Jesus IS the Christ and that he died for our sins and was raised on the 3rd day?
It's not doctrine that saves us. Nor is it organization. But belief in Jesus.
Is it IMPOSSIBLE for the conscious class to be saved?
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slimboyfat
Am I part of the conscious class?
I don't believe what JWs teach, but I don't believe much in God either.
Are we assuming for the purpose of this question that the mainstream Christian narrative is correct? Rather than, say, assuming JWs are correct in their world view, or Mormons or Adventists or other heterodox Christian groups for that matter.
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AuntBee
Brotherdan - Protestant Christians believe anyone can be a true Christian who believes in Christ, and trusts in His death on the cross, for the forgiveness of their sins.
My heart goes out to you, because you seem to be between a rock and a hard place.
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What-A-Coincidence
I believe in the conspiracy class
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slimboyfat
I believe in the conspiracy class
I noticed that. You don't have to you know. It's okay to disbelieve in disbelief too.
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brotherdan
Thanks Aunt Bee. I guess I'm trying to reconcile my own position.
For everyone else, by conscious class I mean those that recognize this is organization is not what it claims to be. But they are still associated with it for one reason or another.
For slimboyfat I'm not saying anything about mainstream Christianity. I'm speaking completely from a biblical point of view. I personally feel that there are true Christians that are Lutherans and false Christians that are Lutherans. I believe that there are true Christians that are Baptists or Catholics or Greek Orthodox and those that are false.
Isn't Christianity based on our living the Christian life and believing in Jesus and his death on the cross (or even stake for that matter) in sacrifice of our sins? If this is true, then could there not be some with the WT organization that, while seeing that it cannot be "the truth", it also does not disqualify them as being true Christians?
I personally am still in the organization, as many of you know. But I don't agree with MANY MANY MANY of the teachings. What I believe has to come directly from the Bible and not from men. But does still being associated with this organization disqualify me as being a true Christian. That's the essence of my question.
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slimboyfat
For everyone else, by conscious class I mean those that recognize this is organization is not what it claims to be. But they are still associated with it for one reason or another.
I certainly fit that description.
I personally am still in the organization, as many of you know. But I don't agree with MANY MANY MANY of the teachings. What I believe has to come directly from the Bible and not from men. But does still being associated with this organization disqualify me as being a true Christian. That's the essence of my question.
But some of the worst JW teaching come out of the Bible. What's the point of ditching JW beliefs but holding on to the Bible?
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Essan
I think if anyone actually respects the Bible and has studied it without the Society blinkers, then it would be very hard for them to live as a 'true Christian' while associating with the Org. and that, ironic as it sounds to JW's, such "conscious" ones would be much freer to actually be a think and act like a true Christian among non-JW Christians. IMO, the only reason to stay, for such ones, is if they can't bear the price of leaving in terms of losing friends and family.
Otherwise, anyone "conscious" who wanted to be able to live in Christian freedom in the way Jesus and the NT writers actually recommended would be best advised high-tale it out of the Org.
Slimboyfat said: But some of the worst JW teaching come out of the Bible. What's the point of ditching JW beliefs but holding on to the Bible?
Ah, but do there really come from the Bible, or are 99% of them just strained interpretation, easily shown to be false when exposed to people who really know the Bible and aren't indoctrinated by the Org? I'd suggest it's the latter.