Posts by JosephAlward

28

Bible Error: Jesus Cures the Leper

by JosephAlward in

the author of mark thinks that jesus cured the leper after he cured simon peters mother-in-law, but the author of matthew says just the opposite: he thinks that jesus cured the leper before he cured the mother-in-law.

they both cannot be right, so the bible is in error.

here is the evidence:.

JosephAlward

Larsguy writes, "Anyway, for the record, this is just the gospel's way of letting us know Jesus cured two lepers that day. That's all. No error."

Alward responds:

So, Larsguy thinks there were two lepers that day, one met by Jesus on the way to Simon Peter's house, and another one met after Jesus left the house. Forum members will note that this is just one more example of the extremes to which inerrantists are willing to go in order to defend the literalness of the Bible.

Larsguy expects forum members to believe that there were two different lepers, and that each leper said exactly the same thing to Jesus, and he said exactly the same thing to them!

"Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."
"I am willing," he said.
"Be clean."

Nobody believes what Larsguy believes, I'm sure, and he would be thrown out of the Governing Body chambers--if ever he were let inside--if he were ever to offer such an interpretation.

Larsguy obviously had never seen this contradiction before and was too hasty in constructing his response. If he had been more thoughtful he would have realized that one could--using his logic--equally well argue that the Bible writer was telling us--using Larsguy's imagined special "Jewish writing style"--that there was only ONE leper, and two different mothers-in-law, one for "Peter" and one for "Simon"! Or, if we assume that Simon and Peter are one and the same Simon Peter, we could argue that Jesus made TWO visits to the mother-in-law: one before the leper was cured, and one afterward.

How does he know that there weren't two different men, one "Simon," and the other "Peter," and therefore two different mothers-in-law, one visited before the leper was cured, and the other visited after the leper was cured? Or, how does Larsguy know that there weren't two different visits to the same mother-in-law? If Larsguy can imagine that there were two different lepers, why can't we imagine the alternative scenarios?

If Larsguy responds by saying, again, that he's TELLING ME DIRECTLY what the truth is, we will know that he really doesn't know how to respond.

Does Larsguy understand the absurdity of his claims, or is he content to whistle in the graveyard, and pretend that everything is going to be alright?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

39

Bible Error: How Did Judas Die?

by JosephAlward in

matthew says that judas hanged himself, while the writer in acts says that he fell and his guts spilled out.

both of these accounts cannot be true.

either one is, or neither is, and this means that the bible is not error-free.

JosephAlward

If Larsguy really were anointed, then he would have special God-given powers which allowed him to find at least one example of the special "Jewish writing style" he invokes to explain "apparent" contradictions in the Bible. Larsguy presents not a single example, and instead pretends that by shouting, "I'm TELLING YOU DIRECTLY," and declaring "that's the end of it," wins the argument for him. What a joke.

Larsguy has refused my invitation for him to explain why he rejects the obvious explanation of Luke's account in Acts of Judas "bursting" open. I've noted that Luke never meant for readers to believe that Judas actually "burst" open, but simply wanted us to compare Judas metaphorically to the old wineskin that Luke spoke of earlier in his gospel. Just as an old wineskin cannot hold new wine, and thus bursts, so did Judas "burst"--in a figurative sense only--when he could not hold the new teachings of Jesus.

Why does he hold to his belief that the Bible writers wanted us to guess how Judas first hanged himself and then ended up with his guts spilled. Why does he think this makes more sense than the wineskin metaphor? Why?

Finally, Larsguy has also refused to respond to the question I asked in a previous post. I'll repeat it here:

"How do you know that you're not just imagining this relationship you have with God, a relationship which is so special it places you in a position of privilege above billions of other inhabitants of this planet? If you say that 'Jehovah told me,' then how do you--and we--know you're not just imagining that? How would the Governing Body know?"

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

28

Bible Error: Jesus Cures the Leper

by JosephAlward in

the author of mark thinks that jesus cured the leper after he cured simon peters mother-in-law, but the author of matthew says just the opposite: he thinks that jesus cured the leper before he cured the mother-in-law.

they both cannot be right, so the bible is in error.

here is the evidence:.

JosephAlward

The author of Mark thinks that Jesus cured the leper after he cured Simon Peter’s mother-in-law, but the author of Matthew says just the opposite: He thinks that Jesus cured the leper before he cured the mother-in-law. They both cannot be right, so the Bible is in error. Here is the evidence:

Mother-in-Law First, Then the Leper:

30 Simon's mother-in-law was in bed with a fever, and they told Jesus about her. 31 So he went to her, took her hand and helped her up. The fever left her…he traveled throughout Galilee, preaching in their synagogues and driving out demons. 40 A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, "If you are willing, you can make me clean." 41 Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" 42 Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured. (Mark 1:30-42)

The Leper First, Then the Mother-in-Law:

2 A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean." 3 Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cured of his leprosy... 14 When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. 15 He touched her hand and the fever left her, and she got up and began to wait on him. (Matthew 8:2-15)

This is but one of hundreds of errors, contradictions, and inconsistencies in the Bible.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

39

Bible Error: How Did Judas Die?

by JosephAlward in

matthew says that judas hanged himself, while the writer in acts says that he fell and his guts spilled out.

both of these accounts cannot be true.

either one is, or neither is, and this means that the bible is not error-free.

JosephAlward

Larsguy writes,

"It's hard to perhaps explain, but for instance if I went to the Governing Body and gave them some Biblical correction, it would make a difference if I told them if I were of the anointed or not. I won't take that any further, but they would understand the difference."

Alward responds:

If they take scriptural advice seriously from any JW who decides that he's favored by God, it's no wonder the Governing Body has made so many false prophesies over the years. If getting a special "feeling" that the Bible--or God--is speaking to one in a special way were sufficient evidence that one is destined for special treatment by
God, then half the paranoid schizophrenics on the planet will eventually be sitting at the right hand of God.

How do you know that you're not just imagining this relationship you have with God, a relationship which is so special it places you in a position of privilege above billions of other inhabitants of this planet? If you say that "Jehovah told me," then how do you--and we--know you're not just imagining that? How would the Governing Body know?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

39

Bible Error: How Did Judas Die?

by JosephAlward in

matthew says that judas hanged himself, while the writer in acts says that he fell and his guts spilled out.

both of these accounts cannot be true.

either one is, or neither is, and this means that the bible is not error-free.

JosephAlward

Larsguy argues that "The way Judas' death is related in scriptures has to do with the separate point of how the Jewish writing style in general seemed to use separate, specific pieces of information which when combined revealed additional information."

First of all, there is *no* such "Jewish writing style."

The style Larsguy speaks of exists only in the imagination of apologists who wish to explain why there are so many "apparent" contradictions in the Bible. The only "evidence" of such a style is found in the Bible, as in the example of the conflicting accounts of Judas' death.

If Larsguy will point to *any* other Jewish writings beside extrabiblical or non-canonical religious texts which have the style Larsguy believes was common, then he will have earned the right to claim that such a style was deliberatly employed by the Bible writers.

If such evidence it's not forthcoming, objective readers on this forum will have the right to believe that such evidence doesn't exist and that the *real* reason there are "apparent" contradictions in the Bible is that in some cases they *really* are contradictions.

Now, the central question I've asked seems to have gone unanswered.

On a matter unrelated to salvation, or other special "secrets" Larsguy believes are in the Bible that only he and certain others know, why would God force not only unbelievers like me, but also "anointed" ones such as Larsguy, to GUESS what happened to Judas? Did God want his Bible to be a game to be played, and then won only by the "chosen ones," even in matters having nothing to do with salvation? Does that make sense, even to Larsguy?

On another matter, why does Larsguy think that Luke in Acts was not merely constructing a metaphor of Judas' death (by hanging)by comparing Judas to the wineskin Luke mention earlier in his gospel? Just as the old wineskin bursts when it is filled with new wine, then so did Judas "burst"--in a figurative sense only--when he was filled with Jesus' new teachings? Why does Larsguy ignore this seemingly quite reasonable interpretation in favor of pure speculation? Why does the account of Judas' "bursting" *have* to be literally true for Larsguy? Would the Bible be any less valuable if it turned out that the "bursting" were only a metaphor?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

5

Matthew's Potter's Field Story Is a Fake

by JosephAlward in

according to matthew, jesus says that jeremiah spoke of events which would foreshadow the priests' purchase of the potter's field with the thirty pieces of silver judas obtained for his betrayal of jesus: .

"then judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders... and they... bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.

then was fulfilled that which was spoken by jeremy the prophet, saying, and they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of israel did value; and gave them for the potter's field" (matthew 27:3-10) .

JosephAlward

OK, Jayhawk, I don't mind explaining the error again.

Throughout time, evil men have betrayed other men for money. The Matthew author or authors (perhaps) believed that person named Judas betrayed Jesus, and thought it only reasonable that Judas did it for money--in this case, the coin of the realm--silver. Matthew, who may have sincerely believed that Jesus existed and actually was the savior who would follow King David, just *assumed* that the Old Testament contained stories which prefigured (foretold, prophesied) events in the life of the coming savior. Thus, Matthew wracked his mind to recall stories from the Old Testament which seemed to relate to silver being given to someone. What happened next was explained in my post: Matthew misremembered stories about a man buying a field with (seventeen shekels) of silver, and that jogged his memory about thirty pieces of silver being thrown at a potter, but Matthew blended these facts together to come up with--in complete sincerity--what he thought was a *single* Old Testament story about thirty pieces of silver being paid to a potter for a field.

Thus, we have strong evidence that the story about Judas' thirty pieces of silver being used by the priests to buy a potter's field is completely ficticious.

I hope this helps.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

5

Matthew's Potter's Field Story Is a Fake

by JosephAlward in

according to matthew, jesus says that jeremiah spoke of events which would foreshadow the priests' purchase of the potter's field with the thirty pieces of silver judas obtained for his betrayal of jesus: .

"then judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders... and they... bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.

then was fulfilled that which was spoken by jeremy the prophet, saying, and they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of israel did value; and gave them for the potter's field" (matthew 27:3-10) .

JosephAlward

According to Matthew, Jesus says that Jeremiah spoke of events which would foreshadow the priests' purchase of the potter's field with the thirty pieces of silver Judas obtained for his betrayal of Jesus:

"Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders... And they... bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; And gave them for the potter's field" (Matthew 27:3-10)

However, there is nothing like this "spoken of" in anywhere in the Bible. There are two stories (see below) which deal either with silver and a potter, or silver and a field being purchased, but neither of them have the remotest connection to a betrayer, blood money, and the purchase of a burying field, which Matthew said was "spoken of."

There is a story in Jeremiah about a man who bought his cousin's field, but it has nothing to do with anyone paying thirty pieces of silver for a potter's field. It has only to do with a man exercising his right to land ownership. Readers may confirm the facts for themselves. Here is the story:

"...your uncle is going to come to you and say, `Buy my field at Anathoth, because as nearest relative it is your right and duty to buy it'...so I bought the field at Anathoth from my cousin Hanamel and weighed out for him seventeen shekels of silver." (Jeremiah 32:7-10)

The other story is found in Zechariah, but it only describes a man angrily throwing thirty pieces of silver at a potter. It has nothing to do with buying a field from a potter. Here is the story:

"And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. (Zechariah 11:12-13)

Unfortunately for the inerrantist, the Zechariah and Jeremiah stories seems to be the ones Matthew had in mind. The evidence of this is found in the words Matthew used, "the price of him that was valued." There is nowhere else in the Bible a phrase like this, except the one in Zechariah: " price that I was prised at of them." This cannot be a coincidence, especially since there is other information in the Zechariah passage which correlates roughly with the "thirty pieces of silver" and the "potter" that Matthew spoke of.

Thus, it seems that an inattentive Matthew, perhaps too lazy to look up the Zechariah verse, or perhaps not having a copy of it to look up, just remembered wrong. Matthew may have recalled the "thirty pieces of silver," and the potter, from Zechariah and inadvertently combined those facts with Jeremiah's description of the purchase of a field for seventeen shekels. No matter how it happened, though; Matthew was wrong. There is nowhere in the Bible a story about a man paying thirty pieces of silver for a potter's field.

But, it's worse than merely Matthew being in error; Matthew told a story that he seems to have been just made up from bits and pieces of two misremembered passages from the Old Testament. In fairness to the Matthew author, he may have sincerely believed that he was telling a story about Jesus that he thought must have happened, because he thought that the stories in the Old Testament prefigured coming events in the life of Jesus. However, it's clear that this author was badly mistaken. Thus, the Bible, once again, is in error.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

39

Bible Error: How Did Judas Die?

by JosephAlward in

matthew says that judas hanged himself, while the writer in acts says that he fell and his guts spilled out.

both of these accounts cannot be true.

either one is, or neither is, and this means that the bible is not error-free.

JosephAlward

Larsguy writes,

"The Bible is meant for Christ and his followers SPECIFICALLY and not for outsiders...Didn't you read in scripture when the disciples asked Jesus why he spoke in parables that he told them that these secrets were for THEM and so that the outsiders, looking in vain, would not understand?"

Alward: I agree that some of the gospel writers have Jesus indicate that he wants outsiders not to receive the word of God as it relates to salvation--even though other gospel writings contradict this, but how in the world could keeping from the world the story of how Judas burst open have anything to do with God's word or his message of salvation, if there is a god? If Larsguy knows why this information should be kept from us, or why he thinks God wanted us to guess what happened to Judas, I hope he will enlighten the rest of us.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

39

Bible Error: How Did Judas Die?

by JosephAlward in

matthew says that judas hanged himself, while the writer in acts says that he fell and his guts spilled out.

both of these accounts cannot be true.

either one is, or neither is, and this means that the bible is not error-free.

JosephAlward

Larsguy speaks of being anointed and of communicating with other "anointed" ones. What do JW's think "anointed" means, and how does one determine if one is anointed, or not?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

27

Bible Error: Did the Sun Stand Still for Joshua?

by JosephAlward in

joshua asks the lord to stop the sun .

on the day the lord gave the amorites over to israel, joshua said to the lord in the presence of israel: "o sun, stand still over gibeon, o moon, over the valley of aijalon.

" so the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the book of jashar.

JosephAlward

Seeker is correct in stating that objects on the surface of the Earth (at the equator) are moving at a speed of about 1,000 miles per hour, and it’s true that if the Earth were “suddenly stopped” the effects would be catastrophic. However, the Bible doesn’t claim that the Sun’s motion was stopped “suddenly.” (We’re giving the Bible writer the benefit of the doubt here, and assuming that by “stopping the sun in the sky” he meant “stopping the Earth from rotating.”)

Consider a car moving at 60 miles per hour braked to rest over a period of 60 seconds. That’s a deceleration of one mile per hour per second, and is less than what would occur if one just removed one’s foot from the accelerator pedal and let friction reduce the car’s speed. The point is, this is a very small deceleration, and would result only in the car’s occupants pitching forward very slightly.

Thus, if the Lord had reduced the Earth’s tangential speed at the equator from its present 1000 miles per hour speed down to zero in 1000 seconds (about 17 minutes), the objects on the Earth’s surface at the equator would have had about the same deceleration as the occupants of the car described above, and would have been only slightly disturbed. The same slight effect would occur when the Lord raised the speed up from zero to its usual value at the end of Joshua's battle.

I don't believe any of this actually happened, of course.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html