Posts by JosephAlward

24

Dead Sea Scrolls published Jesus not There

by Satanus in

the prep and publishing of the dead sea scrolls is finally finishing.

they date from 250 bc to 70 ce.

out of a total of 52 volumes, jesus christ is not mentioned even once.. _________.

JosephAlward

Yeru says, "Jesus was just one of many itinerant preachers and miracle workers in Judea, why would he be mentioned when the others are not?"

Why would Jesus be mentioned, if he really had fed 5,000 people with a handful of bread and fish, with leftovers aplenty, and then did the same thing later with 4,000 people? Why would he be mentioned when he--allegedly--actually did expel drive demons from the demoniac into a herd of pigs (Mark 5:1-21), and the people of the region found out about it and asked Jesus to leave the region?

Well, these, and other “miracles” actually DID happen, if you can believe the Bible. The other “miracles” performed by the other “miracle workers” Yeru spoke of NEVER HAPPENED; at best, some people may have thought they witnessed miracles by other “miracle workers,” but we know they cannot have actually been miracles.

The only miracles performed were those by Jesus, if you believe that God gave only Jesus the power to perform miracles. Thus, the other “miracles” must only have been rumors of miracles, not actual miracles; people heard about them, but they never saw any, really. However, the 9,000 at the two miraculous feedings surely knew a miracle had been wrought; they would have seen the bread and fish multiplied; this would have made a very strong impression on them, and with so many people having experienced this, no historian would have been able to ignore these events—if they had actually happened. The same can be said about Jesus driving the demons into the herd of pigs; the townspeople were so upset they asked Jesus to leave their area. This would have been such a high-profile event that no historian could have ignored it--if it had actually happened.

Bang says that Josephus wouldn’t have bothered recording the “events of a few poor people,” but surely Bang doesn’t consider nine thousand people just a “few.” And what about the “few”—according to Bang—infants under the age of two years old Herod was alleged to have slaughtered in order to destroy Jesus? All of the children under age of two in the town of Bethlehem and its suburbs murdered, but yet too “few” for Josephus to care? That’s preposterous. Would Josephus have thought that this was an insignificant event in the life of Herod, if, as the Bible says, this actually happened? Of course not; Josephus recorded innumerable events in the life of Herod that were far more mundane than this one.

Yeru also believes that the “apostles” didn’t write about Jesus sooner because they thought he would be returning so soon that they shouldn’t bother recording the events in his life before his ascension. That doesn’t make sense; why did Jesus tell his disciples to travel through the towns of Israel to spread the good word (Matthew 10:23) if his apostles wouldn’t even have time to write down anything?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

24

Dead Sea Scrolls published Jesus not There

by Satanus in

the prep and publishing of the dead sea scrolls is finally finishing.

they date from 250 bc to 70 ce.

out of a total of 52 volumes, jesus christ is not mentioned even once.. _________.

JosephAlward

Accuracy,

Josephus's hands were full with other matters, and that's why he had nothing to say about Jesus? What matters were more important to Josephus than the alleged miraculous feeding by Jesus of 5,000 on the shores of the Sea of Galilee (Mark 6:32-42), and then of the 4,000 another time (Mark 8:1-9)—if it really happened?

* http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Loaves_and_Fishes.htm

What story was more interesting than the one about the head of John the Baptist being brought on a platter to Herod’s banquet (Mark 6:1-29)—if it really happened?

* http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/john_baptist.html

Does anyone really believe that Josephus had so many “other matters” of such consequence to report on that he didn’t have time to write about the alleged murder of the innocent children under two years of age in Bethlehem and its suburbs (Matthew 2:16)—if it really happened? How many hundreds of babies might this have been, and still you think Josephus was more concerned with other matters that he just didn't want to take a few minutes to scribble a comment about Herod's murders? That's ridiculous. Josephus commented on a great many matters that were extremely mundane concerning Herod, so surely he would have mentioned the head of John the Baptist and the murders of the many babies, don't you think--if these things had really happened?

Few things that Josephus reported in his voluminous works were more important than the miraculous feedings, the head on the banquet platter, or the mass murder of the babes. If anyone disagrees with this statement, let them read the works of Josephus and tell the forum what “other matters” were more important, and also explain why Josephus reported on such a great many matters of extreme banality, but yet didn’t see fit to report on the events mentioned above. The reader will find the works of Josephus at

* http://members.aol.com/fljosephus/home.htm

Who can believe that Josephus wouldn’t think his readers would be interested in hearing about all those corpses which rose from their graves and walked into Jerusalem and chatted up the folks there (Matthew 27:45-53)—if it really happened?

It was not just the historian Josephus who seemingly ignored Jesus; no other historian of the first century knew anything about Jesus or the events described in the Bible. It is not possible that a man allegedly so remarkable as Jesus, who allegedly did so many astonishing things, would have gone unnoticed by historians.

It is begging the question say that the gospel writers were historians, for their work is the very thing in dispute. The gospel writers don’t identify themselves. Mark based many of his Jesus stories on events in the lives of Old Testament figures (Moses, Elijah, Elisha, David), and on acts by YHWH; the gospels of Matthew and Luke are largely plagiarized versions of Mark. These writers were no more than propagandizers for a man who never existed—a man, however, they actually thought existed and who was the messiah the Old Testament prophesied was coming. Since they thought that the Old Testament stories were foreshadowings of events in the life of the coming savior, they made sure that the stories they made up matched what they thought were the prophecy stories about the messiah.

The gospels are fiction; the historical Jesus never existed.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

20

Does God Really Want to Save Everyone?"

by JosephAlward in

a striking difference of opinion about gods attitude seems to have existed between the author of 1 timothy and the author of 2 thessalonians.

one thinks that god wants all men to be saved, but the other speaks of god deliberately deluding people in order to condemn them.

both pictures of god cannot be true, so there is a clear contradiction.

JosephAlward

Zipit,

You're trying to add words to these verses that are not there. The writer didn't say, "God wants salvation to be available to all men." If there is an all-knowing god, and if he did, indeed, only wish that salvation be "available," he would have known that the words in 1 Timothy, "God wants all men to be saved," would be misleading and imprecise. In fact, according to 2 Thessalonians, God couldn't possibly really want ALL men to be saved since he deliberately gives man the instrument--free will--by which some will NOT be saved.

Thus, it is the imprecision and misleading nature of the verse in 1 Timothy which should be a sign to any rational person that an all-understanding, all-knowing, all-powerful god did NOT guide the writing of this verse. A REAL god would have known enough to have the writer say, "God wants salvation to be available to all men" in order for his words to be consistent with those in 2 Thessalonians, in which wicked men choose not to be saved.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

57

divining rods work

by zerubberballz in

jw
friends

it's a funny ol' world.

a month ago i was mucking about with some thick fencing wire and i suddenly got the idea to bend a couple of pieces into a set of divining rods like i've seen old nutters doing on tv.

so i cut two sections of wire about 2' long and bent the ends 4" at 90 degrees to form old fashioned diving rods (twitching sticks are made of yew or hickory or something .. don't know what, if anything aboriginies used).

JosephAlward

Divining rods only work if the user thinks they will work. Uncle Bruce, I suggest you conduct the following test: Blindfold yourself and have someone walk you in an irregular manner to some position far from the site at which "positive" results were earlier obtained. Let them then guide you in a straight line toward the "hot spot." If there is nothing special about the terrain where hits were earlier made, you won't know you're passing over it, and if the person guiding you remains silent, and doesn't touch you as you walk, you will find that you will pass right over the spot without the divining rod twitching; I guarantee it. Report back to the forum, please, to let us know if I'm right.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

24

Dead Sea Scrolls published Jesus not There

by Satanus in

the prep and publishing of the dead sea scrolls is finally finishing.

they date from 250 bc to 70 ce.

out of a total of 52 volumes, jesus christ is not mentioned even once.. _________.

JosephAlward

You're not wrong, Dan. Josephus lived in the area in which "Jesus" allegedly walked, talked, and performed miracles such as driving demons into a herd of pigs, curing lepers and the blind, feeding thousands of people with just a handful of loaves of bread, suffering death and rising again. All of these occurred while other remarkable events were allegedly happening, such as the many saints rising from their graves and walking into Jerusalem to chat up the residents there, the murder by Herod of all of the children under two years old in and around Bethlehem, the placing of John the Baptist's head on a dinner platter at Herod's banquet. Josephus, who was a world class historian, said not a word about these events, even though he lived and wrote in decades immediately following the alleged life of this "Jesus."

It all seems to be a myth. All of the gospel stories are fictional, perhaps innocently and sincerely written by those who so badly wanted to believe that the messiah had come to earth in the form of a man they called "Jesus the Christ."

The Dead Sea Scrolls are further evidence of the fictional nature of Jesus. If a person as remarkable as the one described in the gospels actually existed at some time between 0 CE and 70 CE, the scribes writing scrolls during that time would surely have at least mentioned him once. But, no. Not even once.

Jesus didn't exist, in all probability. Those who wish to read the evidence for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions will find a great deal of it in links shown on the web page

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

The relevant articles to look for there are

"The Jesus Myth"
"The Jesus Puzzle"
"Fact and Fiction"

as well as innumerable articles dealing with the historicity of Jesus in the "Historicity of Jesus" section of the Resource Directory; see especially the articles dealing with Josephus.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

20

Does God Really Want to Save Everyone?"

by JosephAlward in

a striking difference of opinion about gods attitude seems to have existed between the author of 1 timothy and the author of 2 thessalonians.

one thinks that god wants all men to be saved, but the other speaks of god deliberately deluding people in order to condemn them.

both pictures of god cannot be true, so there is a clear contradiction.

JosephAlward

Moxy,

I have no expertise whatsoever in Hebrew, so I cannot present my own linguistic argument; however, I have no reason to suppose the men who translated the Hebrew into the Greek septuagint were wrong in choosing the active voice. In any case, what matters for this argument is whether God could have saved the wicked. The answer must be, of course, He could have, since he is allegedly all-powerful (recall Mark 10:27: "with God all things are possible.") Irrespective of whether one wishes to imagine the active, or the passive voice is used, the effect is the same as for the bystander on the shore who assumes a passive role and lets someone drown whom he effortless could have saved. We would say that the bystander must not have wanted to save the drowning victim. So it is with the god described in 2 Thessalonians: he effortlessly could have saved the wicked men, but evidently did not want to. This is contradiction to 1 Timothy, which says that God wants all men to be saved.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

58

Do You Still Believe a God Cares for You?

by JosephAlward in

jw
friends

i've been a part of this forum for about one month, and during that time i've been struck by the willingness of many so former jehovah witnesses either to ridicule the bible, or to stand by while it's being ridiculed.

so, i'm wondering how many of them while witnesses suffered through experiences so searing that they no longer believe in the god of the old testament.. who among you still believe that underneath the layers of contradictions, inconsistencies, and errors in the bible there may be found the words of a god who created the universe, and who also cares about you, personally?.

joseph f. alward.

JosephAlward

R. Rodriguez affirms, "I believe the Bible can be harmonize[d] from Genesis to Revelation..."

RR, I don't want to unravel my own thread, so if you would take your beliefs over to the "Bible Research" forum, I would be happy to try to disabuse you of this notion. After I send this post I'll start a thread called “Does God Really Want to Save Everyone?” over there which concerns the contradiction between 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

20

Does God Really Want to Save Everyone?"

by JosephAlward in

a striking difference of opinion about gods attitude seems to have existed between the author of 1 timothy and the author of 2 thessalonians.

one thinks that god wants all men to be saved, but the other speaks of god deliberately deluding people in order to condemn them.

both pictures of god cannot be true, so there is a clear contradiction.

JosephAlward

A striking difference of opinion about God’s attitude seems to have existed between the author of 1 Timothy and the author of 2 Thessalonians. One thinks that God “wants all men to be saved,” but the other speaks of God deliberately deluding people in order to condemn them. Both pictures of God cannot be true, so there is a clear contradiction. The evidence is given below:

1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone-- 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:1-4)

Contrast this with

11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)

How could an all-powerful God who "wants ALL men to be saved" not have the power to cause these men to see the truth, rather than "believe the lie"? The answer is, He did have the power, but he chose not to exercise it, and therefore he must not have wanted to save these men. This contradicts what is said in 1 Timothy.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

58

Do You Still Believe a God Cares for You?

by JosephAlward in

jw
friends

i've been a part of this forum for about one month, and during that time i've been struck by the willingness of many so former jehovah witnesses either to ridicule the bible, or to stand by while it's being ridiculed.

so, i'm wondering how many of them while witnesses suffered through experiences so searing that they no longer believe in the god of the old testament.. who among you still believe that underneath the layers of contradictions, inconsistencies, and errors in the bible there may be found the words of a god who created the universe, and who also cares about you, personally?.

joseph f. alward.

JosephAlward

Moxy notes, "so once a person comes to the point where they must remove a piece of the tightly integrated frame of belief due to incontrovertable evidence, it tends to bring the whole thing crashing down. if even an element of the bible is proven to be less than infallible, it tends to send the entire concept of god into irrevocable doubt."

Alward responds: I completely agree. St. Augustine (354-430) was one of the founders of the Roman Catholic Church. He well understood that Christianity was like a house of cards; if the church dared to admit to even a single error in the Bible, who could say there wasn't an error on every page? The resurrection story might then be false and everyone's hopes are in vain. This is what he said:

"The most disastrous consequences must follow upon our believing that anything false is found in the sacred books....If you [even] once admit into such a high sanctuary of authority one false statement, there will not be left a single sentence of those books, which, if appearing to anyone difficult in practice or hard to believe, may not by the same fatal rule be explained away as a statement, in which intentionally, the author declared what was not true." --St. Augustine in Epistula, p. 28.

In response to Saint Satan’s question about my belief: I'm not aware of any evidence that there is, or ever was, a god who cared personally for anyone. I'm an atheist, and have been for almost as long as I have been old enough to form a reasoned opinion. Thanks for asking.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

57

divining rods work

by zerubberballz in

jw
friends

it's a funny ol' world.

a month ago i was mucking about with some thick fencing wire and i suddenly got the idea to bend a couple of pieces into a set of divining rods like i've seen old nutters doing on tv.

so i cut two sections of wire about 2' long and bent the ends 4" at 90 degrees to form old fashioned diving rods (twitching sticks are made of yew or hickory or something .. don't know what, if anything aboriginies used).

JosephAlward

Divining rods--or "dowsers"--"work" the same way Chevreul's pendulum, the "turning table" in seances, and the Ouija board work: nonconscious (involuntary) muscle movements initiated by autosuggestion. This was first described in 1833 by Michel-Eugene Chevreul (1786-1899), who explained the mysterious movement of a small pendulum held by an "unmoving" hand. The pendulum swings back and forth or in a ciruclar path depending on what the holder in thinking, even though the holdler is convinced that he or she is holding the pendulum perfectly still. (Portions of this paragraph were lifted verbatim from the magazine noted below.)

In facilitated communication a "facilitator" holds the hand of an autistic partner who types messages on a keyboard. What's really going on, however, is that the facilitators are unwittingly controlling the partners' typing. For more on facilitated communication, see the January/February 2001 issue of the Skeptical Inquirer.

The "power" of Rubber's divining rod exists only in his imagination.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html