we all know the jw view on what happens at death.
however a friend of mine lost a very young son and went to a medium.
the medium told her the name of her son without knowing anything about her or even knowing that she had a child that died.
However: If there was a memory to be planted in the new body, voila: There you have the soul. So the JW-view on this is ridicolous for any thinking person.
Hellrider,
The correct way to state this would be "There you have the spirit" not there you have the soul. We should be careful how we use words. What then is this spirit? It would contain wnatever information (memory, DNA, etc.) was essential to perform such re-generation.
Joseph
Chrissy, it's same time every year...aftern sundown on Nisan 14th. like, duh. ;o)
That makes it Nisan 15 you know Chrissy. Sundown on Nisan 13 would be Nisan 14.
Confusing isn't it? But Sundown on Nisan 14 which becomes Nisan 15 is the correct date for Passover. The Watchtower has it wrong and does not even understand something as simple as the seven days of Passover. Ask any Jew if they observe Passover on Nisan 14 or 15? Also ask them how many days are there in Passover. You will get an answer of 7 or 8 days depending on where you live. But this Passover meal is also Sabbath. The next afternoon is still Sabbath. How then could our Lord have been executed the next afternoon on this Sabbath? It was a day of Preparation they say? Yes it was but the next day of Preparation would not be until 6 days later during this same Passover.
Joseph
if you believe that the wbts is a high control group, cult, or whatever, do you also believe that the design, the isolationist doctrines and subtle mind control is all on purpose?
or did it just sort of evolve that way?.
in other words, do you think russell, rutherford and the governing body purposefully look(ed) for, or make(made) up, biblical evidence to support controlling doctrines?
In other, other words, are they evil incarnate, or just stupid and trapped in an out-of-control beast of a religion just like the rest? Daystar, You know it does not really matter. Lu 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. Such men have had plenty of opportunity to change their ways but refuse. There is no point in making up excuses for them. Joseph
we all know the jw view on what happens at death.
however a friend of mine lost a very young son and went to a medium.
the medium told her the name of her son without knowing anything about her or even knowing that she had a child that died.
Sorry to contradict, but what you describe is not a resurrection - it's a re-creation. Ozziepost, Sorry to contradict, but what he described was a resurrection. Re-creation (regeneration AV) is also used to describe such a time. What will appear in the Millenium is the immortal representation of the human seed that was sown. But if you have a scripture that teaches it will be a copy of themselves, I would like to see it? Joseph
this may seem like an odd topic for me to handle but i have had this rolling around in me for a long time.. i'm sure many of us recall the oft repeated quote from jws that "faith without works is dead" the concept of grace is unknown to them.
one website gives one aspect of it as.
grace is a beautiful word, truly a great bible truth is resident in this word.
Grace versus merit.
The scriptures reveal that not only are grace and merit not coexistent, they are mutually excluding. Salvation cannot simultaneously be by grace and works (merit),
Lady Lee,
But it can Lady Lee. Where Grace cannot simultaneously coexist is with works of Law. We cannot just read the word
works
and apply it to anything or everything. The application of works or even deeds is sometimes very specific in the texts and limited to
works of Law
. Circumcision is another way to express this limitation as well. This would be true in most of Paul’s letters who battled with such Jewish Law keepers, some even trying to kill him because of his stance against them. James who was responsible for much of this Law keeping finally changed his view after many years and demonstrated the value of works apart from Law. This is why we see works used the other way in scripture. Such discussions largely applied to the faith where Grace and Justification come together for the Church of God. Now Grace apart from the faith goes a bit farther and will be given to resurrected mankind based upon rules of conduct and decency. This is another matter as Grace and Justification will not be coincident and Justification will be achieved by them later in time.
Joseph
do you think god's original purpose was for us to live forever on earth?
and if so, why has it not happened yet?
joanne
Saying that God doesn't want humans to be mortal is missing the very point of the tale in 2--3 by rejecting its conclusion, which is precisely reality. Narkissos, The reality really is that God does not want immortal humans that disobey, cause chaos and kill each other the way Cain killed Abel. The reality is a plan to filter out the good ones from the bad ones before such immortality is given later. The reality is to prove the creation and redeem those worthy to continue before advancing it further. Joseph
you know the ones ... how alexander the great was supposedly predicted in advance .... how daniel interpreted dreams and foretold bablyons destruction ..... how cyrus was named years in advance .... how jesus fulfilled so many hebrew scriptures prophecies ...... how do you explain this?
conspiracy by the early church?
conspiracy by the 70 scholars of the lxx?.
Hellrider,
You can tell most of the time what is what. You should have been able to tell by putting the texts alongside in the prophecy that this was a special case. This is also the case with the parables. If your feet are planted firmly in the root texts of scripture you will not stray far from the path. In short, pay attention.
Joseph
you know the ones ... how alexander the great was supposedly predicted in advance .... how daniel interpreted dreams and foretold bablyons destruction ..... how cyrus was named years in advance .... how jesus fulfilled so many hebrew scriptures prophecies ...... how do you explain this?
conspiracy by the early church?
conspiracy by the 70 scholars of the lxx?.
And this presentation, among other things, would mark the present author as belonging to a later generation.
Narkissos,
I know that he was of a later generation but not so late that he did not have access to such eyewitnesses. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, [NIV] Luke took a special interest in getting it right. If nothing else Luke had access to Paul who met with them. Why do such authorities assume that Luke was dependent upon the texts and could not have access to this information from others? You can read Luke anyway you like and he does not say this does he? If so where? He alone revealed the problems that existed in Jerusalem with James who was taking the lead in causing them. Luke alone exposed the hypocrisy of the letter James wrote. He knew the truth and said what others would not dare. But in spite of all this the texts themselves regarding the prophecy should be enough.
Joseph
you know the ones ... how alexander the great was supposedly predicted in advance .... how daniel interpreted dreams and foretold bablyons destruction ..... how cyrus was named years in advance .... how jesus fulfilled so many hebrew scriptures prophecies ...... how do you explain this?
conspiracy by the early church?
conspiracy by the 70 scholars of the lxx?.
I don't know if you accept the mainstream conclusion that Luke is verbally dependent at least on some version of Mark.
Narkissos,
Luke did not need Mark other than as a reference but would have heard this message orally from eyewitnesses and in this way knew exactly what was said. After all the apostles were still alive and could relate what took place if not personnally then through Paul who met with them. This is what Luke said in his Gospel:
:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,: So Luke could correct the wording of texts in Mark to reflect this perfect understanding apart from such interpretation. He even corrected himself when he mentioned the blood first at the last passover repeating it again after the bread for accuracy.
Joseph
you know the ones ... how alexander the great was supposedly predicted in advance .... how daniel interpreted dreams and foretold bablyons destruction ..... how cyrus was named years in advance .... how jesus fulfilled so many hebrew scriptures prophecies ...... how do you explain this?
conspiracy by the early church?
conspiracy by the 70 scholars of the lxx?.
Hellrider, This is something I noticed over 25 years ago and put it in a letter (1978) to the Watchtower. They of course were ticked off about it and ignored it making plans by then to get rid of me. Matthew 24:15-18 Mark 13:14-16 and Luke 21:20-22 are the same prophecy. Luke quotes our Lord’s prophetic remarks but Matthew and Mark interpret the message and give its basic meaning. This then locates it more accurately in time and moves it away from 70CE. That the authors of scripture did not always quote our Lord’s words exactly should come as no surprise. The words “let the reader use discernment” should tip us off that this is not a literal representation of this prophecy as our Lord did not say this but this is an interpretation of it. The authors of the Gospels were permitted to take such liberties to accommodate the reader and this is how I learned that the words heavens and God were interchangeable in many texts. Such use depended upon the audience for which the text was intended. The apostle Paul also use special words targeted to accomodated Jews and Gentiles. So “Jerusalem” in Luke becomes a “holy place” in Matthew and “a place it ought not” in Mark. Jerusalem thus becomes the symbolic and not the literal city of Jerusalem that was destroyed by the Romans. Fleeing to the mountains, then would be seeking a place of safety away from this symbolic place at such a critical time and would not drive Jewish Christians to the Masada that was destroyed by such Romans. This holy place this Jerusalem with all its flaws would represent the Christian faith (grafted in) with all its flaws (and evil slaves) at such a future time. The Gentile Times, when they began, when they end and what they represent was explained in much the same way. In Matthew they were since the world’s beginning, in Mark since the beginning of creation and in Luke simply continue to be trampled on until the end [when our Lord returns]. The were “a great tribulation” Matt. “A tribulation” Mark that began with sin and end with the coming of Christ or “fulfilled” Luke. The WT's Gentile times is based upon smoke and mirrors, not scripture. It is out of this tribulation that the seed of the woman Eve will produce the resurrected ones that will inhabit this Kingdom. Our Lord words on the Gentile times goes back to the prophecy that said: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Are we to think that the physical pain of pregnancy was increased on purpose or are we to think that as a consequence of sin and this added (births) seed of the serpent that many more human beings would have to be born than was originally planned to fill the earth? This would bring greater pain, sorrow and a tribulation upon the earth that could only increase in intensity. Things are not always what they seem but if we follow the story it all makes perfect sense. Our Lord answered their question the only way He could by referring to prophecies already written and known by them. They wanted all this to happen much sooner in their day in fact but He said to them after 40 days of further instruction about this Kingdom and His comming: 7 “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” They were dependent upon such texts just as we are today and could only give this much of the answer to the world. Joseph
