Posts by JosephMalik

19

Were the "Annointed" that got disfellowshipped still "Annointed"??????

by mama1119 in

jw
friends

when i was a teenager we had these two annointeds in our hall, man and woman, very very gung-ho elder, pioneer type.

well, they had an affair for many years and then got df...i always wondered, if god chose them to be annointed, did he now reject them.....or did they just take a break, because as soon as they got reinstats they were partaking again?????

what was the official stance on that???

JosephMalik

What difference would disfellowshipping make anyway? How would something that men do alter their salvation and eternal life? And what difference would dying while DF’d make? Our Lord said:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

The WT lies to you. Scares you. Makes you distribute lying literature to others and millions of you just love it. Look at what is self evident as taught in this text. There are no sheep in the WT system of worship.

Joseph

13

TARTARUS - please explain why it is in the Bible

by Severus in

honest question here.

tartarus is mentioned once in 1 peter 2:4:.

.certainly if god did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into tartarus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;.

JosephMalik

M.J.,

The heavenly places or high places Paul is discussing are these seemingly important ones (false prophets and teachers in the faith) that claim superior authority for themselves. Heavenly or high places is simply another way to describe such authority. They could be doing something like teaching others that they represent the “Faithful and discreet slave,” a “Priest or some other higher level representative of God” but this is just a devilish scheme to gain power and control over your lives. The real source of such false teaching is not flesh and blood. It is spiritual wickedness and our capabilities should be such that we are able to withstand such evil and stand apart from it.

Eph 6: 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

While such ones may think that they are doing great things and getting away with it Peter identifies their real position before God and the fate that awaits them on Judgment day. Paul for one had to face them personally on many occasions. Yet the circumstances or context that surrounds these two texts described here are different and they do not directly compare. You should however get the idea that all is not well in the faith and there are some really bad so called Christians authorities out there attempting to gain control over lives the teachings of which are detrimental to your salvation.

Joseph

13

TARTARUS - please explain why it is in the Bible

by Severus in

honest question here.

tartarus is mentioned once in 1 peter 2:4:.

.certainly if god did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into tartarus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;.

JosephMalik

Severus,

It is remarkable how something so simple can be exploded into meaning something so complex. The verse in question is talking about who and what? Do we know? Why not let Peter answer? If we stay with the verses and quit running all over the place or to other sources we should learn that it is the ungodly under discussion and the punishment that awaits them. So if Peter should use a word common to mythology, or some other familiarity of the time to make this point well then so what? And all this association with “spirit beings” or “demons;” whoooo scary stuff but it deflects the application away from ourselves or our churches to whom it may well be pointed.

Pet 2: 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Just who are we talking about here? Peter introduced them like this:

1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Humans Beings, leaders in what we think is the faith or true worship of the time. Sure they are called angels as they conveyed their message to others but they were also called false prophets and false teachers. They are using you and making merchandise of those following them. But God has a plan for them and their existence in “tartaroo” a word that substitutes for “hell,” pre-identifies the judgment that awaits them when our Lord returns.

It is the same judgment that awaits others such as the ungodly and wicked that exist along with such false teachers and the rest of us that are seemingly in the “faith.” So Peter adds them to this list well.

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

As teachers here on this forum, what keeps us from being on this list of those found to be in “tataroo?” What is it that makes us more like Noah and Lot that puts us on the side of the godly? That is the point Peter is making and a question we should all ask ourselves.

Joseph

6

PreExistence

by Bookey in

another major bible topic that is often misunderstood is the allged preexistence of the messiah.

the messiah's mother, miriam, or mary as the greeks say, would beg to differ about the origin of her son's life.

she would be the first to say (if she were not a pile of bones somewhere in a tomb) that the her son was a human being who she raised on her lap.

JosephMalik

Another major bible topic that is often misunderstood is the allged preexistence of the Messiah. . . It is Greek philosophy. Not the truth. . . Before commenting, keeping in mind one major factor about the bible. IT speaks in parables.

Bookey.

Not everyone spoke in parables and it makes no difference what Greek’s believed. Is not some truth also found in such philosophies? On what basis then does this discredit such a truth other than to imply something bad about it? I have given this topic some attention recently and have updated “Beyond Trinitarianism” found on my web page http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/ to include a section on this very thought. In the process I found more of such silly proofs against pre-existence. Take the “it” argument for example. Anyone with a good bible program can simply activate their Strong’s concordance numbers and do a search for “it” and its use. The argument goes away when we see this is proper use of “autos.” Then again not every apostle wrote a Gospel or even a letter that made its way into the Bible Cannon. And not every apostle or disciple that did had the visions that John, Peter, and Paul had to explain such things. Many if not most of them still believed in the Law as a means of salvation as did James in Jerusalem for over 40 years. This was a major struggle and test of the faith in such early years. Anyone that studies such Gospels can see that John for one filled in material not adequately covered in the others. He wrote mainly between the lines but still followed the outlines of the others. Where Matthew, and Luke contained the human chronology of Jesus, John provided the non-human chronology in his first chapter very much the way they did. And we also learn that it was the “life” of the pre-existent one not the “person” that was transferred into the womb of Mary. So if you have any real proof for your views then now is a good time to offer them to us all.

Joseph

28

The Passion of the Christ

by I-follow-the-narrow-path in

so... i just got the passion.. and i haven't watched it yet.. but going to.

what does everyone think about it ?

JosephMalik

I wonder how many know that it took nine hours from the time Pilate released Jesus to the event on Calvary when He was nailed up?

John 19:12 NIV 12 From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jews kept shouting, "If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar." 13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour. "Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews. 15 But they shouted, "Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!" "Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked. "We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered. 16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified. So the soldiers took charge of Jesus.

It was the sixth hour during this Passover week or about 12 noon of Nisan 19. Preparation day for the Passover a special Sabbath that concluded the 7 th day of Passover would begin that day but in the evening or in about 6 or 7 hours. It would however take about 9 hours or well into this day of preparation that the trip to Calvary and the actual impalement of our Lord would take place from the time they led him away from Pilate. How do we know? Because Mark said in chapter 15 verses 24 and 25:

Mark 15:24 NIV And they crucified him. Dividing up his clothes, they cast lots to see what each would get. 25 It was the third hour when they crucified him.

We know that it was the third hour of the night when they crucified him because time moves forward not backward. This could only be the third hour of the night and already Nisan 20 by now. This would also be an opportunity for the soldiers to relax and gamble over his garments during the night. Just as we have AM and PM today to describe time based on a Midnight and Noon reference the Jews measured time as Day and Night based on their evening to evening clocks. If we were following the events in real time, then we would be aware that it was already night when this crucifixion took place.

The Nisan dates given here are also correct. Our Lord ate the Passover with His disciples on a Sabbath Day and was not executed on the exact time and date that such Lambs were killed. There are no scriptures, NONE, that require such timing as the entire week of Passover was provided for such events to unfold.

Joseph

3

2 Thess 1:9 (presence or not?)

by yaddayadda in

hi, 2 thessalonians 1:9 in the new world translation reads:

"these very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the lord and from the glory of his strength.".

however, many other bible translations render it slightly differently by including the word 'presence' (see below).

JosephMalik

Yadda,

Presence, face, makes little difference as this meeting will be up front and directed at the person in either case. Such an event is prophetic and future as you surmise.

:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

This information can be compared with the sheep and goats that will be separated when our Lord returns as detailed in Matt. 25. But here we learn a little more about who such goats will be. A little further down the text we also learn: 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

So while this may not include all the goats that will be separated at that time, at least it reveals those sinful ones living or dead that fit this description, those that claim to be directing the faith but really are abusing it.

Joseph

90

i have a question

by brandon_the many in

would the passage from new world translation be a miss print....because in the holy bible the word is god......so if god is not capitalized..then what god is the book referring to...because there is only one father and one living god witch is jesus...... .

please help me , because this has been puzzling me...... .

new world translation of the holy scriptures new world translation of the holy scriptures .

JosephMalik

What you seem to be missing is the fact that the "Logos" is the focus, not mankind.

DD,

So the Logos is one of the "all things" we are talking about Eh? Have it your way DD.

Joseph

90

i have a question

by brandon_the many in

would the passage from new world translation be a miss print....because in the holy bible the word is god......so if god is not capitalized..then what god is the book referring to...because there is only one father and one living god witch is jesus...... .

please help me , because this has been puzzling me...... .

new world translation of the holy scriptures new world translation of the holy scriptures .

JosephMalik

DD,

It is true. The Lord and God that Thomas touched was after all human. Jesus raised his body as promised and that is what Thomas touched, the human Jesus raised from the dead. "All things," does not mean everything and we are back to that again. The burden of proof is in your court not mine. I already demonstated what the context of John 1 was. And words like Lord and God are similar. They have their own definitions. They apply just as well to a viceregent and people other than a Supreme Being. Context once again determines who and what is meant. The trinity is not the truth, it is that simple

Joseph

90

i have a question

by brandon_the many in

would the passage from new world translation be a miss print....because in the holy bible the word is god......so if god is not capitalized..then what god is the book referring to...because there is only one father and one living god witch is jesus...... .

please help me , because this has been puzzling me...... .

new world translation of the holy scriptures new world translation of the holy scriptures .

JosephMalik

It is times like this when you just throw up your hands and give up.

Joseph

90

i have a question

by brandon_the many in

would the passage from new world translation be a miss print....because in the holy bible the word is god......so if god is not capitalized..then what god is the book referring to...because there is only one father and one living god witch is jesus...... .

please help me , because this has been puzzling me...... .

new world translation of the holy scriptures new world translation of the holy scriptures .

JosephMalik

Humanity is explicitly introduced as a further focus in v. 4b with anthrôpôn (also v. 9).

Narkissos,

So you say but is it really further focus and is that statement proof? The focus goes only from mankind in general in verse 9 to the Nation of Israel in verse 11 where it says: “He came unto his own, and his own received him not.” Unscriptural and uninspired grammatical explanations and applications like this that fail to include such texts are not evidence. The real context of John’s message is being ignored by such grammarians. Trinitarians must ignore it because their doctrine is heavily dependent on how “all things” in this text is interpreted. They must make the Word more than He is. Where is something other than humanity being discussed by John? I have asked for scriptural evidence repeatedly and no one including you has provided it. I take it that you ignore it and try to deflect the question because you cannot show it scripturally.

Joseph